Looking for a new OS

[Bronzetree]

Okay, technophiles, I'm fed up with Windows ME crashing my fucking hard drive at least twice a day (and as much as ten to fifteen times a day) and have decided I want to go with a new OS.

So, what's out there? Any recommendations? Can I download them for free? Pros and cons? How difficult is it to install a new OS that overrides Windows?

Details please.

[The Sheck]

Where's Bryan when you need him?

[DogStarMan]

I guess the question is, do you want an op sys that you are used to, that will run pretty flawlessly, that will recognize all of your devices and pretty much not take any work to install? If so, get Windows XP. That's all. Everyone else will say the same, except for the Mac fans and those people who are still fighting the good fight by adopting a Linux op sys.

The only reason I'd say not to get XP is if you have a pretty puny system. XP likes to take 128MB of RAM and eat that as a before dinner snack.

[RichmondVA]

Yup. DSM is right. Windows ME is stank, and everyone knows it.
Windows XP works great.

I would not recommend Linux or other alternative OS for the average user. There's a lot of nice things about Linux, but it's not geared for the novice.

And I wouldn't recommond trying to run two OS's on the same system or trying to upgrade or "override." Save your data, reformat the hard drive and install the new OS. Then re-install all your programs and devices, one-by-one. That way, you'll have a nice, clean registry.

The one thing I will warn you about with Windows XP is that if you want to do anything with a network, you will need to get the professional edition. The home edition will get you to the internet but that's all.

[mattsledge]

Originally posted by RichmondVA
The one thing I will warn you about with Windows XP is that if you want to do anything with a network, you will need to get the professional edition. The home edition will get you to the internet but that's all.

I am using XP Home here at the station on our own network and XP does a smashing job with the network.

[RichmondVA]

Really? Do you not use Domains?

[DogStarMan]

No Server=No Domain

[RichmondVA]

Ahhhh. True. I guess I'm just too used to giant-ass networks.

[mattsledge]

Originally posted by RichmondVA
Really? Do you not use Domains?
Exactly - it's just an in-house network of computers.

And has been mentioned here Bronzetree, ME is a piece of shite. If you can, upgrade to XP or go back to 98... these seem to be the best options right now.

[Bryan]

I'll chime in with the same. WinME is probably one of the worst operating systems ever released. Even Win98SE was better. Of course, I'm 100% Linux but if you just like to turn on your computer and have it install and work with no fuss, go with Windows 2000 or XP. I personally refuse to use WinXP because I have made a personal vow that Win2000 will be the last Microsoft OS I ever use. On the other hand if you do like to tinker and aren't afraid to learn a little bit, you can reap great rewards from Linux.

[pathogen.b]

we had ME on our last machine at home- it crashed more than john denver on a rocky mountain high. now it's xp on a new dell that runs like a dream. xp has only locked up on me once, but that was while gaming online with a ton of people on the same map and !@#$ blowing up all around. one of those "would you mind sending this error report to MS" messages popped and that was it. i like xp. we're upgrading to xp at work very soon and i'm testing our apps for compatibility now. so far, so good. yipee.

[IPrayForSound]

Originally posted by pathogen.b
it crashed more than john denver on a rocky mountain high
*ba dum tsss*
[/horrible rimshot sound effect]

[pathogen.b]

*bah dum bum pish*
[/horrible rimshot sound effect #2]

[Bronzetree]

Okay, two things.

1) Can you upgrade to XP for free somehow? I can't see putting money into upgrading to something else because ME is the pile of shit that came with my computer.

2) What do y'all mean about Linux? What kind of things do you have to do in order to get it up and running every time you turn on your PC? I learn pretty quickly, but if it's some involved process every time I boot up, or there are a billion things I have to keep watch of when I'm surfing or just using the PC, I'll pass.

[Bryan]

1) Nope, no free upgrade. How do you think Billy Gates makes his money?

2) Once Linux is set up and running, it really should be no different than Windows. Turn on the computer, you get a log in screen, click on the little icons on the desktop and/or start menu to launch applications and that's it. Sometimes there are issues with hardware, etc. Also of note, you can't run Windows apps on Linux (without a few exceptions) but there are excellent replacements for the MS Office suite. What apps on Windows do you use most often and consider 'must haves'? Knowing that I can tell you where you might have trouble finding a Linux alternative. Games come to mind.

Plus the file system is Linux is entirely different, things are in weird places. But, once again, if you never go mucking around in the file system and keep everything in your 'My Documents', not a big deal.

Linux also has issues with fonts. Not an issue for the casual user but definitely an issue if you do graphic design.

The new installers for Linux make the installation a breeze on any newer computer. It autodetects nearly everything and allows you to set things up with a nice self-guided graphical interface. I have a Dell 500MHz machine and Red Hat installed with zero drama.

Tangent... one of the great things is that pretty much no one writes viruses for Linux, and even if they did the damage would be much less because of the way Linux structures it's user permissions. I don't even know if anyone makes antivirus software for Linux.

Best of all, you can try out Linux for free. Install it, try it for awhile and if you don't like it, nothing lost. Go buy the WinXP upgrade and be done with it.

[DogStarMan]

Originally posted by Bronzetree
2) What do y'all mean about Linux? What kind of things do you have to do in order to get it up and running every time you turn on your PC? I learn pretty quickly, but if it's some involved process every time I boot up, or there are a billion things I have to keep watch of when I'm surfing or just using the PC, I'll pass.
Do yourself a favor and just skip it. Take the easy road. Like I said before, Linux is for people that have a grudge aginst M$ and are fighting the good fight and/or like to constantly tinker with their PC. Personally, I do enough tinkering at work, so when I come home, I just want the damn thing to work right off the bat and keep working right every time. If you don't want to spend lots of time on a new learning curve and want to stay with something you're familiar with, get XP. Check out EBay (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2 F&krd=1&from=R8&MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&query=Windows+XP+Home) for a cheap one....like this one. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3611990779&category=41887)

[lawdog]

Originally posted by DogStarMan

Check out EBay (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2 F&krd=1&from=R8&MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&query=Windows+XP+Home) for a cheap one....like this one. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3611990779&category=41887)

Be wary of buying cheap OS's from third party sources. Not only does Windows XP not activate on your PC if the product key has been used before, but there are also some copies of it out there that are out and out pirated. Their product keys were made with a KeyGen program. If you get one of those, it will install and activate, but you can't apply any of the service packs, nor will Windows Installer work right. Someone I know got a hold of one of these pirated copies, and now can't apply any updates, or install any software. I'm not saying the deal on ebay is necessarily bad, but caveat emptor.

[shivui]

i'm sorry, but XP is slow. of course my own comp runs mac osx, so i guess i shouldn't talk.
my roommate chose to reinstall win98 instead of dealing with xp anymore.

[RichmondVA]

Windows XP is a resource/memory hog so if you have a slow processor or small memory then you might run into some problems. That's certainly a consideration.

If you have more than 128k and your machine is less than 2 years old you should be fine. If not, Window 98 works great I ran Windows 98 up until 2 months ago. Sooner or later, you'll run into problems with Windows 98 because software isn't written for those machines anymore. But if you are sticking with basic MS Office and IE you should be fine. Anything but Windows ME!!

[slow-dog]

Originally posted by RichmondVA

If you have more than 128k and your machine is less than 2 years old you should be fine. !

Man....I was all psyched to pull out the C-128, until I read the "less than 2 years old" bit........ ;)

[RichmondVA]

Okay, okay. 128 MEGS. Sorry, I think I had a TRS-80 flashback for a second there.

[slow-dog]

Originally posted by RichmondVA
Okay, okay. 128 MEGS. Sorry, I think I had a TRS-80 flashback for a second there.

I had Zaxxon on cassette for my TRS-80! It ruled!

[Bronzetree]

My machine is just about exactly 2 years old with 128 megs of RAM. ME is a fucking hog, which is why I crash constantly. For whatever reason, MS programs frequently cause me to crash when I open them. Especially Word and the full version of Outlook (Express doesn't crash me).

Here's what I use my computer for. Internet, e-mail, Word, Excel, Illustrator, Photoshop, FTP, Acrobat, E-Fax Messenger, porn (wait, how'd that get in there?), and the occasional IM.

Help a cracka out.

[DogStarMan]

Originally posted by lawdog
Be wary of buying cheap OS's from third party sources. Not only does Windows XP not activate on your PC if the product key has been used before, but there are also some copies of it out there that are out and out pirated. Their product keys were made with a KeyGen program. If you get one of those, it will install and activate, but you can't apply any of the service packs, nor will Windows Installer work right. Someone I know got a hold of one of these pirated copies, and now can't apply any updates, or install any software. I'm not saying the deal on ebay is necessarily bad, but caveat emptor.
Good point. I just install enterprise software, so I never have to go through that whole activation thang and I tend to forget about it.

From the sound of your system, it sounds like you'd be better off getting a used copy of Win98 SE. It would be cheaper and Win98 SE is hella' more stable than ME, even though it's older.

[Bryan]

After reading the list of apps that you use, I would definitely recommend sticking Windows. As far as I know there is no good replacement for Illustrator on Linux. And I'll agree with DSM, if you want a new OS without dumping any more money into the computer, try to get a used copy of Win98SE. Believe it or not, we have a couple of audio encoders here running Win98SE that will run 24/7 for 3 months without a reboot. Who knows, maybe a friend has upgraded to a newer OS and would even be willing to give you their old copy of Win98. Hell, since I'm all Linux now, I would even give you the old copy of Win98SE that came with my Dell.

[DogStarMan]

There ya' go....goodonya' Byan!

BTW...there is no upgrade (or downgrade?) path from Win ME to Win 98 SE, so get ready for a clean sweep.

[Bronzetree]

Originally posted by DogStarMan
BTW...there is no upgrade (or downgrade?) path from Win ME to Win 98 SE, so get ready for a clean sweep.

I assume this means I should save everything, reformat, then install 98SE? That's gonna be all kinds of hell to do.

What's XP run new?

[DogStarMan]

**ahem...
Originally posted by DogStarMan
The only reason I'd say not to get XP is if you have a pretty puny system. XP likes to take 128MB of RAM and eat that as a before dinner snack.
Admit it, you really like to re-install everything in your system and on occasion, flog yourself and pour salt on the wounds, don't you?

[pathogen.b]

Originally posted by Bronzetree
What's XP run new?


IE is the only app i have up right now. so with that and xp, this machine is using up 172 mb ram at this very moment. i don't think you want to go there w/only 128. yeah, you can (barely) run it on less, but i thought you should see how much xp likes to eat up when it has room to breathe, so to speak (we have 512 rd ram on this machine at home).

ok, out of curiosity i pulled up pshop 7 as well = 226 mb
and ImageReady 7 (i don't have Illustrator) = 237 mb
and musicmatch = 243 mb

ram is cheap, though. you might wanna try buying another stick first. that should at least save some of the crashes until you get the OS issue figured out.

[Bryan]

In terms of cost, you can pick up an OEM copy of WinXP for $93 at newegg (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=368&manufactory=1149&DEPA=6&sortby=14&order=1). OEM is cheaper than retail because you don't get the pretty box, just the CD. The only trick is that you have to buy it with hardware. But hey, pick up a 256MB stick of SDRAM for about $35 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?catalog=147&DEPA=1&submit=property&mfrcode=0&propertycode=&propertycodevalue=4189,2984), the WinXP OEM and your problem is solved for about $130... new OS and more RAM.

(I'm assuming your computer uses SDRAM and can use modules of different sizes but make sure to check before buying.)

[DogStarMan]

Originally posted by Bryan
I'm assuming your computer uses SDRAM and can use modules of different sizes but make sure to check before buying.
Or you could go to Crucial.com (http://www.crucial.com) and use their RAM finder to figure out what kind of RAM you need. All you need to know is what model motherboard you have.

[pathogen.b]

the memory search on Kingston's page (http://www.kingston.com/) is another popular tool for finding the right RAM for your machine.
werd to ya mammy.

[Bronzetree]

http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.asp?Mfr%2BProductline=HP%2BPavilion+7900 +Series&mfr=HP&cat=RAM&model=Pavilion+7920&submit=Go#specs

http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/configurator/modelsinfo.asp?SysID=+11026+&distributor=0&submit1=Search

This is what I came up with when doing the searches on each page. It appears my PC uses SDRAM. Is there a particular brand of memory stick that's better to use, or any that should be avoided?

[RichmondVA]

Crucial and Kingston are the name brands, but you pay a little more. Either one of those should be fine.

A lot of proprietary machines like Dell, Gateway, and HP alter their boards so you have to buy chips specifically for those machines. If you buy the generic Kingston PC 133 256 SD RAM or whatever, it may not work. If you search around the internet, you can probably find out whether you need the special HP chip or whether any ol' Kingston (or other brand) chip will work.

I think I'd just go ahead and trust either the Crucial or Kingston website. You know it's a brand name chip, and you know it fits your machine. You are paying maybe $15-25 too much but saving hassle and the possibility your machine actually breaks. Just do a search for that chip model and buy it from someone who also sells software. That way you can get OEM Windows XP with your purchase (as Bryan noted, OEM is cheaper but you have to buy hardware with it).

Installing the chip is easy. Just pop it into the slot. You may have to alter a jumper pin on your motherboard, but your documentation will tell you. You may also have to run a program that allows you to alter you set up in case your board can't figure it out on its own. Again, your documentation will tell you and it's a pretty simple procedure.

[jccalhoun]

It should be noted that to get the best out of winxp you should reformat your drive to NTFS. So if you downgrade to 98se or upgrade to xp you will end up reformatting either way.

[DogStarMan]

Originally posted by RichmondVA
Installing the chip is easy. Just pop it into the slot. You may have to alter a jumper pin on your motherboard, but your documentation will tell you. You may also have to run a program that allows you to alter you set up in case your board can't figure it out on its own. Again, your documentation will tell you and it's a pretty simple procedure.
Just make sure whether you already have PC100 or PC133 RAM. You will usually see this information on the POST screen during boot up (the screen that comes up and starts counting memory, shows drive info, etc, right before the operating system kicks in). If you don't see this screen, but some kind of "splash screen", hitting esc will usually make that go away so that you can see the POST. Or you could pop the case and look at the dimms you have. There's usually a sticker on them. That would also be a good opportunity to see how many slots you have available for RAM upgrades. If you take them out, be sure to ground yourself by touching something metalic and hold them by the edges, don't touch the chips or the contacts on the bottom. A little static electricity can fry RAM.

The reason you want to make sure if your existing memory is 100 or 133 is because if you get a dimm of the wrong kind, it won't play nice with your existing dimms and will probably cause some pretty nasty crashes.

[lawdog]

Originally posted by jccalhoun
It should be noted that to get the best out of winxp you should reformat your drive to NTFS. So if you downgrade to 98se or upgrade to xp you will end up reformatting either way.

Nooooo! You don't have to reformat to go to NTFS. You can actually repartition the drive to NTFS without formatting or losing any data. It sounds crazy, I know, but it's true.

[DogStarMan]

Since there's no upgrade path from ME to XP, he's gonna' have to do a clean sweep anyways. Take my word for it, it's better that way. Just going from Win2K to WinXP has caused its share of registry problems on systems I've upgraded.

[lawdog]

Originally posted by DogStarMan
Since there's no upgrade path from ME to XP...

There's not? I did not know that. I was able to upgrade from 98SE to XP Home. I didn't realize that you couldn't upgrade from ME to XP. I guess that's reason number 432,546,927 why ME blows.

[Docta]

Originally posted by DogStarMan
Take my word for it, it's better that way. Just going from Win2K to WinXP has caused its share of registry problems on systems I've upgraded.

agreed, OS upgrades can be way too flaky. me likes clean installs. i tend to blowup my systems every year or less. it's like changing the oil in your car every 3000 miles, just do it. that being said, i have not yet noticed the need to do a clean sweep with winXP or mac os X in a year or more, both seem pretty durable.

[Bronzetree]

Okay, so my lady has a version of XP that came with her laptop (don't know why I didn't realize this). Not sure if it's part of a budle pack, though. I'll check. I assume if it is, I wouldn't be able to install it on my system correct?

My system has been crashing hardcore for the last several days. I have a new 19 inch monitor (oh sweet lord, what a beautiful thing it is), but I don't think it has anything to do with the crashes. However, it's become so annoying that I'm ready to throw the whole fucking thing our the window. It's XP time.

[Bronzetree]

Originally posted by Bronzetree
Okay, so my lady has a version of XP that came with her laptop (don't know why I didn't realize this). Not sure if it's part of a budle pack, though. I'll check. I assume if it is, I wouldn't be able to install it on my system correct?

Aaaaaaanybody. Anybody at all.

[DogStarMan]

Did you upgrade the RAM? You can install it with the 128, but it won't be pretty. Anyways, XP will examine your system and tell you if it won't work. I'm willing to help you out bro, but you need to ask specific questions to get specific answers.

[jccalhoun]

you probably won't be able to use the laptop verson since it is probably not an actual full copy of windows. what most computers come with is a restore disk which is basiclaly just a copy of whatever was on the hard drive when the computer was bought,. so if you used it it would put all the drivers for the notebook on your computer messing it up and making it really hard to boot up and cause a lot more of a headache than going out and buying a copy of xp.
however, it is possible that it is a full copy of windows, but not likly. if the laptop is a dell or gateway or big name brand that anyone has heard of it will almostcertianly be a restore disk not a full copy.