Texas Dem's take their ball and run!

[GWB]

Fucking cowards!!!!:mad:

'Dirty D's' head north of Red River

By Mary Madewell
The Paris News

Published May 13, 2003

Ardmore, Okla. — State troopers found him, but they can’t bring him back.

State Rep. Mark Homer, D-Paris, was among more than 50 Texas Democrats, dubbed the “Dirty Ds,” found late Monday in Oklahoma after fleeing the state to break quorum and stop House passage of a Republican-drawn congressional re-districting map.

“I did not take this step lightly,” Homer said from a motel in Ardmore. “It is simply the only option I had to protect folks back home.”

If Democrats had remained at the state capitol, Homer said redistricting would have passed the Republican-dominated house led by Speaker Tom Craddick, R-Midland.

“This is not about Democrats and Republicans,” Homer said. “It is about destroying rural representation.”

Homer said he would not return to the state capital until he receives a guarantee from Craddick that congressional redistricting will be removed from the agenda and that the House will proceed with issues important to his constituents, including health care, education, and the state budget.

Craddick told the Associated Press that he is not negotiating and called the Democrats’ actions disgraceful.

If the Democrats stay away through Wednesday — the deadline for preliminary passage of House bills — they could derail major pending bills that have been termed a priority by the Republican-controlled Legislature and Gov. Rick Perry.

After that, it would take a favorable vote by two-thirds of the House to get legislation to the floor for a vote. Missing the deadline will stymie several bills that have been dubbed emergency legislation, including an insurance reform measure. A budget-balancing government reorganization proposal also has been put on hold.

Gov. Rick Perry expressed alarm at the lawmakers’ actions.

“If 53 people can decide to leave on any given issue, we might as well shut this building down and let it become a museum because the work of the people is through,” Perry said.

Homer remained firm Monday on his commitment to fight redistricting.

The proposed redistricting map is particularly hard on Northeast Texas, Homer said, explaining that Northeast Texas becomes part of a Dallas suburban district.

Southeast Texas would be dominated by Houston suburbs, and deep East Texas would become a Tyler district. Waco would become part of a Fort Worth suburban district and Abilene would be dominated by Lubbock.

“Our interests are not only uncommon with the DFW suburbs, they are conflicting,” Homer said. “We want to protect our resources and Dallas wants to use them.”

“We are concerned about rural transportation — U.S. 271 and U.S. 82 and highways 24 and 19,” Homer said. “Dallas is worried about the I-35 corridor and High Five interchanges.”

“No one person could possibly effectively represent both areas,” Homer said.

Homer faults U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay, R-Sugar Land, for bringing pressure on Craddick to bring up re-districting in the first place.

“In my heart of hearts I know that he did not want to do this during this session, but he was forced into it,” Homer said.

Republicans argue that the proposed map gives the GOP a fair chance to win districts that DeLay claims they deserve to win.

“Republicans could easily win those districts as they’re currently drawn,” Homer said, explaining in most of them Republicans have the largest percentage of voters.

“They just can’t beat congressmen who are doing a good job,” Homer said.

Calling legislative redistricting a power grab, Homer said DeLay is not looking for districts Republicans can win but rather is trying to create seats they can’t lose.

“If we can stop this atrocity, it will not create a safe seat for any political party, but it will be a safe seat for rural Northeast Texas,” Homer said.

Democrats received praises for their actions from party leaders.

“The Republicans will attempt to call them obstructionists,” Texas Democratic Party Chairwoman Molly Beth Malcom said. “They are heroes.”

“Like the Killer Bees and the Dirty 30, they are showing what true courage and true commitment are all about,” she said of the group who brought scorn from some state groups.

Texas Republican Party of Texas Chairman Susan Weddington called the Democrats cowards.

“Lawmakers have been elected by their constituents to fight for them in the legislative arena of ideas, but the Democrats have abandoned their posts and run from their place of responsibility,” she said.

“Democrats’ actions are by no means heroic; they are the very definition of cowardice. There is nothing principled about deserting your post and betraying the people of Texas,” she said.

Obstructionism or representation — voters ultimately will decide Homer’s motives and those of the other 58 Texas Democrats who remain in Oklahoma.

[mwng]

Someone should remind good ol boys Tom Craddick and Tom DeLay that gerrymandering is frowned upon.

However, they are in violation of the House rules. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

"At the Alamo when Travis drew a line in the dirt, inviting those who wanted to leave, only one man, Moses Rose, climbed over the wall and fled."

from http://www.house.state.tx.us/news/release.php?id=311

I couldn't resist. Drawing parallels to the mythic Alamo and what is now taught in Texas schools as a group of rebels led by a man who was suffering from the effects of drinking mercury.

Whatever. More assholes from Midland. I'll never escape the damn place.

[Docta]

Originally posted by GWB
Fucking cowards!!!!:mad:


cowards? i don't understand that label, they are not afraid of anything. they are doing this because redrawing these districts is so completely wrong. it would be like the president trying to redraw state lines to make it easier for him to win reelection. there is no other argument for going through this deliberate process. if anything the passage of such a bill would be cowardice.

[tobedawg]

It's refreshing to see representation from Texas that isn't a war-happy, oil-grubbing, elitist tax-cutting, "christian-nation" obsessed moron.

It's also refreshing to see Democrats that aren't kissing him and his party's ass!!! :D

[GWB]

Originally posted by Docta


cowards? i don't understand that label, they are not afraid of anything.

Not afraid of anything?!:confused: So, you call not standing up for your consituents (you know, the people who put you there?) and fighting the fight not being afraid of anything? Redistricting goes on all the time! They are just getting a dose of their own medicine and they're finding the taste rather unappealing! Deal with it!:mad:

[GWB]

Originally posted by tobedawg
It's refreshing to see representation from Texas that isn't a war-happy, oil-grubbing, elitist tax-cutting, "christian-nation" obsessed moron.


This coming from a Kalifornian?!http://smilies.networkessence.net/s/contrib/geno/rofl.gif You're calling Bush a moron? Gotta little phrase for ya here:

"One nation UNDER GOD!" Have a nice day! :)

[BigSugar]

LOL! ok, so now whenever there is a vote that isn't going to go the way a certain party wants it, then they should just run and hide until the deadline passes....lovely....i'd venture a bet that at least 75% of those "run and hide" democrats will not see another term in office at the hands of the voters, be they the current districts, or the new districts....

as for redistricting, there are strict standards that must be met, and if they are unconstitutional or illegal, they won't stand up to court scrutiny....so instead of running and hiding, the Dems should vote, win or lose, and if they aren't happy about the new districts, they should sue in federal court and have them overturned....

cowards run....the brave stand and fight for what they believe in....the "53" are cowards.....

[Docta]

Originally posted by GWB


Not afraid of anything?!:confused: So, you call not standing up for your consituents (you know, the people who put you there?) and fighting the fight not being afraid of anything? Redistricting goes on all the time!

this act IS standing up for their constituents! the cowardly thing to do would be to just show up, make their argument, then get defeated; all along knowing what the outcome would be. they are risking being arrested with this act for god sake, it is a form of protest. they are risking being voted out of office all together for this issue because of its importance to them. if this vote goes through, their constituents' voices will not be heard at all because of the redistricting.

this does not go on all the time, it would be the first time in 50 years. it is a major shift that will clump these constituients in with wealthy, conservative and politically powerful suburbanites.

and no sug, this isn't something that is done or will be done all the time, only when a group is pushed into a corner. the outcome of this is a forced issue which will create a system whereby these constituents will no longer be represented in the state at all because the new representatives will kneel to their now more powerful constituents in the burbs.

[GWB]

Originally posted by Docta

they are risking being arrested with this act for god sake, it is a form of protest.

Not quite, pal. Why do you think they went to OKLAHOMA? Because they knew that there was nothing that TEXAS LAW ENFORCEMENT could do about it! Risking arrest would have been to stay IN THE STATE and pull this I'm leaving-and-I'm-taking-my-ball-with-me bs! That would have been taking a risk! This is just simply a tantrum!

[AbstractFactory]

Some background for GWB and other followers...

1. This ain't the first time that Texas members have done this. Last time was 1979 with the Killer B's (Lloyd Doggett - D Texas, proud member). It is an act of civil disobedience that is not illegal and has proud roots in Texas history. The Dems could fly the Gonzales Cannon Come and Take It flag.

2. I live in Austin at the intersection of 3 of the 4 new districts. I walk across them when I go to Donn's Depot for a beer. The walk through the heart of the downtown living district takes me 10 minutes. A staggering UT student could cover all four districts by barhopping among the establishments of 6th street downtown.

3. The Reps popped this districting map on the House early this week in an effort to force a vote by the closing of the session on Thursday at midnight, when the republicans take their balls and go home.

It's bare knuckle politics, which leads to the only Rep argument for gerrymandering I've heard that makes any sense ("They did it to us in '91"). But if the Rep's want to go down that argument, then they should quit whining about civil disobedience and fight back.

And yes, your president IS a moron. I've heard burps that were more articulate than his speeches.

P.S. It might be bare knuckle, but sending a Walker Texas Ranger to a child's hospital bed to wait for the father to return so he can be "arrested" for traveling to Oklahoma is below the belt. Especially since what they're doing is not illegal but rather against the ethics rules of the Texas Legislature.

[GWB]

Originally posted by AbstractFactory
But if the Rep's want to go down that argument, then they should quit whining about civil disobedience and fight back.


Who's whining? They are fighting BECAUSE THEY AREN'T BACKING DOWN FROM THEIR POSITION! Civil disobedience? It's more like run and hide politics and there's nothing bare knuckle about that!

[Sovrana]

Originally posted by GWB


Not quite, pal. Why do you think they went to [b]OKLAHOMA? Because they knew that there was nothing that TEXAS LAW ENFORCEMENT could do about it! Risking arrest would have been to stay IN THE STATE

of course the Texas GOP could employ the services of the FBI....something I would expect from them.

Afterall, their proud son "W" used the Supreme Court to get into the White House. :D

I couldn't resist...:cool:

[IPrayForSound]

Originally posted by GWB


Who's whining? They are fighting ...etc etc etc... and there's nothing bare knuckle about that!
Okay, so you have your opinion on that part. I'm not from the area, and don't have a great understanding of what goes on there, so I wanna hear your opinions on the parts you chose not to address, such as the opposing party's sleazy actions prior to the departure of so many politicians?

[GWB]

Originally posted by IPrayForSound

such as the opposing party's sleazy actions prior to the departure of so many politicians?

Liberals should be the last people on the face of the earth to talk about sleazy actions! It's called redistricting and I have no problem with it and yes, IT DOES HAPPEN ALL THE TIME! It comes up in the state legislature at least every 2 years!

[IPrayForSound]

Well, first of all, I'm not a liberal. I have some liberal ideals, but I'm not ignorant or blind enough to allow myself to be placed into one party. Second of all, I think I need to clarify what I want your opinion on. I understand what redistricting is, and I understand how, depending on who's drawing the lines, your agenda will be helped or hurt. I don't agree with redistricting in general, but that's neither here nor there. I would like your opinion on your pet party's political strategy of introducing legislature to force a vote before adequate debate can occur. And yes, I believe I can call that sleazy all I want.

...and before you get super-defensive (as you seem apt to do), by "pet party" I simply mean the political party which, based on your posts on these boards, you seem to sympathize with the vast majority of the time.

[dcXhc]

I have to admit, I like the Dems tactic.

Redistricting is always about redrawing the lines to favor the party in power. When the pendulum swings back to the left and the Democrats try a little gerrymandering of their own, I'm sure the Texas GOP will remember this.

I also hope the Democrats realize that this opens them up to legitimate charges of obstructionism. Also, they say they want action on other items, which their fleeing the state will clearly prevent or delay.

[BigSugar]

my position on this issue is this: redistricting happens. all the time. believe it or not, sometimes it's done for political reasons. but these tools were hired by the people to do a job. that job was to go to the legislature and fight for their rights....not run to OK when the shit gets thick and bitch about politics and Tom DeLay. get back to work you lazy fucks and stop blaming someone else b/c your forced to either vote or not vote on a bill that you may or may not lose. if everybody decided that simply holding up govt. until it all grinds to a halt was the way to "play the game", then absolutely nothing would ever get done in govt. and while the thought of that sometimes makes me smile, it's not logical, and it certainly will lead to anarchy (which Frost would love!!!!:)

[dcXhc]

Originally posted by BigSugar
it certainly will lead to anarchy (which Frost would love!!!!:)

It's yoshomon who loves anarchy. Frost loves girls with big butts.

[Bronzetree]

Originally posted by GWB
Liberals should be the last people on the face of the earth to talk about sleazy actions!

Rush Limbaugh called. He wants his schtick back.

[Docta]

Originally posted by GWB

IT DOES HAPPEN ALL THE TIME! It comes up in the state legislature at least every 2 years!

it happens when a census occurs only.

"Congressional Research Service has found no mid-decade redistricting has occurred for at least 50 years"

from
GOP would redraw districts in 2 states
David Espo, Associated Press
5/11/2003

[AbstractFactory]

Originally posted by BigSugar
my position on this issue is this: redistricting happens. all the time. believe it or not, sometimes it's done for political reasons. ... if everybody decided that simply holding up govt. until it all grinds to a halt was the way to "play the game", then absolutely nothing would ever get done in govt. ... and it certainly will lead to anarchy ...

The argument "Everybody does it" didn't work for me in fourth grade and I'm not sure it works here. It is nasty business no matter who does it and should be fought where it occurs. ...Yes, I mean that.

And on anarchy... I see the move to Oklahoma as a part of the process dictated by the quorum rules of the House. The same blocking methods are in place during filibusters and Supreme Court Hearings on the constitutionality of a law. For a live example, consider our last presidential election. Was it part of the electoral process to go through the supreme court to elect a president? Probably not, but we made it so based on the laws of the land. That did not lead to anarchy. Elections will be held again.

I like big butts too.

[AbstractFactory]

Originally posted by AbstractFactory


The argument "Everybody does it" didn't work for me in fourth grade and I'm not sure it works here. It is nasty business no matter who does it and should be fought where it occurs. ...Yes, I mean that.



"it" is gerrymandering. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[IPrayForSound]

Originally posted by BigSugar
get back to work you lazy fucks and stop blaming someone else b/c your forced to either vote or not vote on a bill that you may or may not lose.
So it doesn't matter to you (ideologically...I realize you probably don't give two shits what goes on in Texas for the most part) that policy is going to be either passed or put down without adequate discussions of the pros and cons of said policy? You'd rather people bend over and take it than try to ensure that their constituents are actually served? I don't care if debate leads to policy that I disagree with if the only other option is uninformed legislation.

[GWB]

Originally posted by IPrayForSound
Well, first of all, I'm not a liberal.

I stand corrected. Thank you for clarifying.


I would like your opinion on your pet party's political strategy of introducing legislature to force a vote before adequate debate can occur.

Well, let's see. I've been in Texas for 15 years now, and this issue comes up at least once every legislative session. Adequate debate? How much more debate do you need when they've been doing it for 15 years?

...and before you get super-defensive.

http://smilies.networkessence.net/s/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif That's a good one! Whatever....:rolleyes:

[monkey neck]

Originally posted by dcXhc
Frost loves girls with big butts.

By AF: I like big butts too.

Even white boys got to shout.

[butter_of_69]

Originally posted by Docta
it happens when a census occurs only.

"Congressional Research Service has found no mid-decade redistricting has occurred for at least 50 years"

from
GOP would redraw districts in 2 states
David Espo, Associated Press
5/11/2003

Did you really need any more evidence that GWB and BigSugar are simply party apologists?

Let's see what they have to say now.

Say what you want, but if I were on the losing side of this debate, I would make damned sure that it wouldn't come up for discussion at all. What kind of precedent are you setting when you just redistrict every time you feel like it?

This redistricting is an excuse to essentially eliminate the rural voters' power by lumping them in with various conservative suburbs across the state. And while such wacky districts are fairly common throughout the country, redrawing them now is a load of crap.

Personally, I would prefer a more European style of elections, without a winner-take-all system, but that would require more Congressmen, and most people don't want that.

[BigSugar]

Originally posted by dcXhc
It's yoshomon who loves anarchy. Frost loves girls with big butts.

oh yeah!!! get my homey's backwards sometimes. :) i'm a leg and firm ass man myself.

now, for all of you legislators.....get back to work before i get pissed again!

[BigSugar]

note to self: read all posts first before replying. saves time.

Docta said redistricting hadn't occured in 50 years in an earlier post. maybe he meant "mid-decade" redistricting, but that's not what he said. GWB said it comes up every 2 years. So, in the "Price is Right" scheme of things, GWB wins for being closest without going over. :)

i simply said it happens all the time (and every 10 years for the last 230 is pretty much "all the time"). In KY, last year, they redistricted a state level senate district and created 2 from 1. special elections were held in January of this year to fill the new seat. it was done by the republicans and *shock and awe*, a republican won the special election (despite being out registered in the new district about 3-1). just one small example.

does it really shock you or piss you off that when a census is done and population demographics are released that legislators want to redraw election districts to better fit where and who the voting public is? think about it, if it wasn't done routinely, then Washington, Oregon, Idaho, The Dakotas, and several other states would still be part of "The Northwest Territories", or worse yet, most everthing west of the Mississippi might still have to block vote as the "Louisiana Purchase". Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California would be the "Spanish Annex" or something.....

seriously, get over it. it happens. running and hiding is NOT a legislative tactic, nor is it the right thing to do in this case. go back, fight, filibuster, vote and then sue if you are not satisfied that it passes legal muster. do the job you were sent to do. period.

[yoshomon]

This is so fucking funny.

... and telling...

[butter_of_69]

Originally posted by BigSugar
Docta said redistricting hadn't occured in 50 years in an earlier post. maybe he meant "mid-decade" redistricting, but that's not what he said. GWB said it comes up every 2 years. So, in the "Price is Right" scheme of things, GWB wins for being closest without going over. :)

That was funny.

i simply said it happens all the time (and every 10 years for the last 230 is pretty much "all the time").

Well, we've had 5 wars in the last 60 years, so I guess that we're at war all the time too.

does it really shock you or piss you off that when a census is done and population demographics are released that legislators want to redraw election districts to better fit where and who the voting public is?

I don't mind it being done after a census. But now, we're 2-3 years removed from the last census, and they're doing it AGAIN. Docta didn't say redistricting hadn't been done in 50 years, he said MID-DECADE redistricting hadn't been done in 50 years, anywhere. If the Texas republicans feel the need to take that extraordinary step, then the Texas dems. can sure feel the need to take the extraordinary step they've taken.

go back, fight, filibuster, vote and then sue if you are not satisfied that it passes legal muster. do the job you were sent to do. period.

It is my understanding that the Texas House has no mechanism for filibustering. So that's out. Also, if you want to argue about why they've all been sent to their state legislature, you could sure make a good case that it wasn't to redistrict NOW. The next scheduled redistricting is in 7-8 years. If the repubs. are still in power then, then by all means, I would be against the tactics that are going on here. But this is Bush league politics, period.

[AbstractFactory]

Redistricting happens at a census to represent the changing populations and give those populations due representation in the government of the land. Or at least that's the idea. Both Butter and Sugar point this out; butter in current events, Sugar in historic events.

Viewed this way, Austin is a discrete district, albeit a changing one. It has been one of the nation's fastest growing population centers through the 90's tech boom. Most of the growth has happened north and west of the city with the epicenter at the intersection of 183 and MoPac. That area is Anywhere, USA with lots of banal suburbs, leather clad grocery-getter pick-up trucks, and Banana Republic outlets. It is staunchly Republican and reflects the three decade change in Austin from Willie Nelson's hippie town to Michael Dell's capitalist city.

I'm not against including Republicans in the electorate. I'm against redistricting as a power-grab. The city is changing of its own accord, growing, and including new voices, most of them conservative. But Austin ought to change as a district because it is still a major population center with similar interests.

PS: Willie Nelson sent red bandanas, whisky, and a well-wishing note to the Killer D's.

[lawdog]

Originally posted by AbstractFactory
PS: Willie Nelson sent red bandanas, whisky, and a well-wishing note to the Killer D's.

What!? No weed? That's not the Willie Nelson I know.

[BigSugar]

Originally posted by butter_of_69
Well, we've had 5 wars in the last 60 years, so I guess that we're at war all the time too.

actually, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Grenada, Bosnia/Serbia, Gulf I, Gulf II....plus war/peacekeeping activities in Rwanda, Somalia, and others i'm too lazy to think of right now....and technically, only 1 of those was a declared "war" under the constitutional understanding of what a declared war is....

Docta's first or second post said that redistricting hadn't been done at all in 50 years...whether he meant texas, mid-decade, or whatever, it wasn't clear....

and i'm laughing at the notion that simply b/c the census was conducted 2-3 years ago means that we can't act on it now....the census lasted all of 2000, and has been re-tooled and added to since then with followups....only now is the data from that census starting to come in in any reliable format....so yes, redistricting now on the current census is perfectly fine.....in fact, if it had occured any sooner, then it would have been based on incomplete numbers and further subject to questioning.

as my grandpappy used to say, when it comes right down to it, ain't nothing in texas but steers and queers....where's my steak!? :rolleyes:

Walker, Texas Ranger

[AbstractFactory]

Originally posted by BigSugar

as my grandpappy used to say, when it comes right down to it, ain't nothing in texas but steers and queers....where's my steak!?


Your grandpappy was Louis Gossett Jr.?

Willie assumes people travel in their own state of herbal bliss. Happy 70th, Willie!

Also news reports that Tom Craddick (R - Speaker of the House) is also stonewalling, same as the Killer D's. He will only speak to them through an aide.

[GWB]

Originally posted by AbstractFactory

Also news reports that Tom Craddick (R - Speaker of the House) is also stonewalling, same as the Killer D's. He will only speak to them through an aide.

Well, considering that IF he were to call them, he would first have to speak to someone at the FRONT DESK, that's pretty understandable! Congressmen get aide's to do their dirty work all the time.:rolleyes:

[BigSugar]

Originally posted by AbstractFactory
Your grandpappy was Louis Gossett Jr.?

you got to seriously keep that under your hat!! if anyone suspected, then the nutcase stalkers come out of the woodwork!

[Sovrana]

Originally posted by BigSugar

seriously, get over it. it happens. running and hiding is NOT a legislative tactic


riiiight....hiring an atty is the tactic of choice....hell the American way! see below:


nor is it the right thing to do in this case. go back, fight, filibuster, vote and then sue if you are not satisfied that it passes legal muster.


careful....don't want to spill the VERY HOT McDonald's coffee :rolleyes:

[butter_of_69]

Originally posted by BigSugar


you got to seriously keep that under your hat!! if anyone suspected, then the nutcase stalkers come out of the woodwork!

Does that make you Louis Gossett IV?

[AbstractFactory]

Originally posted by BigSugar


you got to seriously keep that under your hat!! if anyone suspected, then the nutcase stalkers come out of the woodwork!

Excellent! Now that's funny.

Ok, I've spilled enough pixels on this subject... At least until the outcome is known.

[RichmondVA]

I'm gonna go ahead and be bipartisan and blast all of yas.

Sure. Gerrymandering happens all the time. Just like racism, big government sleeping with unions and big business, and politicians promising everything to everyone when they know it can't be done. Doesn't mean it isn't wrong. But do you really think the Democrats haven't done this and wouldn't do it again if they had the chance?

On the flip side, do you really think the Democrats are in this to represent the people? Texas is nuts when it comes to the death penalty but you don't see the Dems running away over it with lives at stake. The difference here is that the gerrymandering affects their jobs. I can't see this as anything other than selfish. But again, do you really think the GOP is above this sort of action?

Basically the GOP pulled an especially dirty, partisan trick by gerrymandering. It was met with an equally dirty, partisan trick. Who loses? The voters. Trying to defend either side is ridiculousl.