Matrix Reviews

[solomon]

Have any of you guys been reading these reviews? I'm starting to worry.

Example:

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=reviewsNews&storyID=2686426

[DogStarMan]

That wasn't really a bad review. The critic just had some complaints about the special effects. I hate critics anyways. I never listen to anybody who get paid to complain about subtle nuances of movies for a living. I don't pay attention to reviews. I base all of my movie preferences on ctJ's patented cheese doodle-o-meter. ;)

[cuddlyevil]

The guy who does the reviews on CBS Sunday morning said it was the talkiest action movie he's seen in a while... *shrug*

[berzerker]

Originally posted by cuddlyevil
The guy who does the reviews on CBS Sunday morning said it was the talkiest action movie he's seen in a while... *shrug*

So was the first one... It'll still kick some ass.

[cuddlyevil]

Originally posted by berzerker


So was the first one... It'll still kick some ass.

I know, never said the review turned me off from seeing the movie :D

[bluewilco]

As long as most of those words don't come from Keanu, then who gives a damn!?

Of course, that means that I still need to watch the second half of The Matrix just so I can grasp Reloaded (yes, I'm sure many of you are gasping now. Tonite I plan to remedy that).

[IPrayForSound]

I have 4 tickets for a 10:00 show tomorrow night. Rock on me!

I may have a coupla extras if anyone wants in...I'll let ya know.

[WBrep]

I saw "The Matrix Reloaded" yesterday morning! It was awesome! Enjoy it if you are going tomorrow night(Wed). :D And I'm already looking forward to "The Matrix Revolutions"!

[monkey neck]

The onion has published a very informative infographic about The Matrix.

http://www.theonion.com/onion3918/infograph_3918.html

[The Schnoo]

Worst. Movie. Ever.

[IPrayForSound]

Y'know, I gotta disagree. I have some objections, but overall I enjoyed the hell out of it. Since it's opening today (officially) I think I'll wait before posting anything that would ruin the movie for someone who hasn't seen it. Or I could do that new "dark color" idea. Or I could wait, and THEN do the dark color idea. Yeah, I'll do that.

[butter_of_69]

Originally posted by WBrep
I saw "The Matrix Reloaded" yesterday morning! It was awesome! Enjoy it if you are going tomorrow night(Wed). :D And I'm already looking forward to "The Matrix Revolutions"!

Hey, thanks unbiased person! I'll be sure to buy 10 tickets, so that all the seats in front of me will be free when my eyes pop out of their sockets from the amazement!

[DogStarMan]

WBrep....feh :rolleyes:

[butter_of_69]

Hey, DSM, lay off.

I know this person, and their name happens to be William Brep.

Honest.

[DogStarMan]

Uhmmm....yah.

I figured it's an industry schill, preaching to the converted.

[Roger]

Just saw it. Three words.

Bad.
As.
Hell.

[donetrawk]

I'd like to see it again and pay more attention to the dialogue to catch stuff I might have missed.

The scene where the dude rattles off the French expletives... amusing. He hit all of the good ones.

I liked this movie.

[SteelTown Boy]

saw it...whoa....the effects rawk

[kickinitlive]

there were some cool parts...great effects.

piece of shit movie...

piece...of...shit

[The Schnoo]

Originally posted by kickinitlive
there were some cool parts...great effects.

piece of shit movie...

piece...of...shit


thank you for having sense.. the rest of these people are lunatics... that have taken over the asylum

-The Schnoo

[kickinitlive]

don't get me wrong, schnoo, i really didn't like the movie as a whole, but there were some goddamn cool parts, ya gotta admit.

take the parts...and you'll like the movie.
take the whole...and you won't

[redbobsled]

What were the crowds like for this movie? I really want to see it, but I think I'd rather avoid the rabid fanboy crowd. I don't want to have to buy my tickets 4 hours in advance. I'm thinking maybe I'd better wait til next weekend. For those of you who have seen it, has it been a madhouse at the theaters? A new movie theater just opened 10 minutes away and they're advertising a dollar for a popcorn and large drink for this weekend only....that might be enough to tempt me to see the matrix this weekend......

[IPrayForSound]

I think for the most part it's been rabid fanboys, especially considering the reactions. If for some reason you thought the first movie was "deep" or "had a message" or was in any way anything other than eye candy and adrenaline, you probably won't like it. If you can accept the fact that that's all it ever was, you'll probably dig the new one.

[Roger]

The theater I went to is showing it every half hour. I walked in at 11:40 and watched the noon showing of it. The theater itself was less than half full. And nobody was kung fu fighting.
I got exactly what I expected from the movie. I had fun watching a "smarter than the average bear" action flick. I enjoyed it twice as much as X-MEN 2 and I liked that one just fine.
The people expecting a religious experience are just fucked up in the way that people watching the "sacred" :rolleyes: STAR WARS trilogy and babbling incessantly about all of the supposed deeper meaning are. Well, maybe not just as fucked up; as an adult STAR WARS is just unwatchable, but you know what I mean. It's a movie. Nothing more.

[bluewilco]

Everyone I went with couldn't stop raving about it last nite (so much so that they became super nerds and rented the new video game as well, which is actually cooler than the movie IMO), but as for me--it was okay. I wasn't blown away by the first one either, but I don't think that either are bad movies. I do, however, want to see Revolutions. The little trailer they show at the end of Reloaded makes you want to see where all this ends up. I'm hoping that they put their eggs in that basket more than they did w/ Reloaded.

[MonkeyGirl]

Um...it wasn't as bad as "House of 1000 Corpses" :D

I saw it on Wed. I was expecting the theatre to be packed, but it was Western Hills and they had a ton of shows that night, so it's possible I picked the less crowded of the 10. It looked like AMC was sold out that night.

Anyway, I barely remembered the first one since for some odd reason it won't play on any DVD player we have, so I was straining to remember. I didn't dig the effects though. That one scene with a multitude of that one agent (Smith?) was just screaming with animation.

For what it was, I guess it was okay. I liked the first one much better.

[The Schnoo]

i dunno, i just didn't like it... i felt it was sloppy and too caught up in it's own self... it's hard for me to form an opinion, the movie itself just made me angry, not because i liked the first one or am a fanboy (for the record i like the first one for what it is and nothing more).. i dunno, check out my review on my website (linked in the sig), it's a bit critical but perhaps it will shed some light one why i don't like it.

-The Schnoo

[vicious]

i've yet to read a good review of it. in our review segment on the show, andrea gave it a wicked awful review. summary: "a 135 minute eyewear advertisement."

i have no desire to see it...i honestly didn't fully understand the first one.

[pathogen.b]

you didn't miss anything from the first one. some tasty digital eye candy, fight scenes jacked from video games and Asian action films, and a plot that was about as original.

i only know one person so far that has enjoyed this sequel... and all she can talk about is a naked Keanu. sweet.

[CtJester]

Originally posted by bluewilco
so much so that they became super nerds and rented the new video game as well, which is actually cooler than the movie IMO

Count me in. I bought the game...silly me. I thought it was going to be trash and that I'd take it back if it were so, but damnit, I'm actually enjoying it.

Silly Jada in leather, tricks are for moi!

-ct

[Hipster Dufus]

I guess I should expect this kind of cynicism from an "indie" bbs, but come on...this movie is a fucking blast. Who gives a shit if it's not art house material? Going to see a movie is a recreational activity; drop your delusions of enlightenment for 2.5 hours and go...recreate.

[solomon]

I saw it and I have to say that I liked it quite a bit. I can understand if you didnt like the first and didn't like this, but I don't see how you could like the first, and HATE this one.

Sure, this one I think is handily cornier than the first, but not so much so that it ruined the movie for me, and I am easily turned off by bad dialogue and cheesiness.

Some bad lines.
Morpheus's speech was total cheese, followed by the way-too-long cave rave. Some of the writing was a little stiff.

But once again the effects and fight scenes are incredible. I liked the new characters. And I really did like the plot turn in the series that occurs here. I thought it was really interesting. Oh well, I liked it.

Sol

[The Schnoo]

Originally posted by Hipster Dufus
I guess I should expect this kind of cynicism from an "indie" bbs, but come on...this movie is a fucking blast. Who gives a shit if it's not art house material? Going to see a movie is a recreational activity; drop your delusions of enlightenment for 2.5 hours and go...recreate.

Actually, i'm a huge action fan, i own action films from tons of countries, some of my faves:
Hard Boiled
Young Guns 1 and 2
Ecks vs. sever
The Company
Brother
Battle Royale
Dog Soldiers
Boondock saints
Brotherhood of the wolf
Equilibrium
many, many more.

and i even enjoyed bulletproof monk.

So saying that because this is an "indie" board doesn't necessarily mean you can generalize and say we're all into art house fair, i'm pretty fucking far away from it, as a matter of fact.

So shut your pie hole or get it crammed, g.

-The "Pimps up, ho's down" Schnoo

[The Schnoo]

Originally posted by solomon
But once again the effects and fight scenes are incredible. I liked the new characters. And I really did like the plot turn in the series that occurs here. I thought it was really interesting. Oh well, I liked it.

Sol


I think that they are in a matrix within a matrix, watch out for that wacky twist.

-The Schnoo

[CtJester]

Originally posted by The Schnoo



I think that they are in a matrix within a matrix, watch out for that wacky twist.

-The Schnoo

Scary, that was my guess too. I'm thinking the series turns out as one giant endless loop. Machines use man who use machines who use man, etc.

****SLIGHTLY SPOILERISH *****
Hell, even the Architect mentions he's the 6th. Maybe it was 6 of himself, over and over, as in one giant loop. I bet that revolutions ends with Neo getting a call from Trinity to start the whole series over again from movie one. Just a hunch.....
****SPOILERS OFF/ STOP SQUINTING *****

-ct

[kickinitlive]

the more i talk about the movie...the more i like it, strangely enough...i still think the script sucked a bit, but it's only natural. everything else was pretty cool, i guess...

i was chatting with some friends last night, and we came up with the whole matrix within a matrix thing. i thought an interesting end to the saga would be as follows...

***FAKE SPOILER ALERT***
see, the way i'm looking at it...the original matrix was created by the original world in a time of great peril. since that happened, the matrix progressed to a similar thing, a time of peril, creating the need for a new matrix. if neo and company find this out, then perhaps the original world has sorted out its demons and is no longer in peril, thereby forgetting about the matrix that it once created, and thereby making it obsolete. so NOW, the original world actually isn't bad...and they find it and live happily ever after (as inevitably they will at the end)...either that or they have to correct the bad guys in the real world outside of both matrices (yes that's the plural)
***END OF FAKE SPOILER***

[Sovrana]

I rented and watched the Matrix last night...this was my 4th try. The first 2 times, I fell asleep (new mom syndrome...too tired to watch) The third time, I decided that the movie "just didn't work." The concept was interesting, but I had a problem with it. Last night....I figured it out....the problem.


I felt that I was duped!

(First...as much as I love Lawrence Fishburn, if he approached me with the knowledge of "reality" on the condition that I take a pill....I'd probably tell him to get lost.)

But here is my real problem:

Neo questioned the oracle and Morpheus says, "she told you what you had to hear (had to know)."


How is this "truth" (which was a lie) any different from the Matrix?

Some of you have alluded to a matrix within a matrix...I think my problem with this movie lies somewhere here. This is why I believe the movie has a major flaw.

Am I missing something?

I have no plans to see the sequel as I expect it will get tongue-tied in its attempt to correct itself.

[lawdog]

Originally posted by CtJester

****SLIGHTLY SPOILERISH *****
Hell, even the Architect mentions he's the 6th. Maybe it was 6 of himself, over and over, as in one giant loop. I bet that revolutions ends with Neo getting a call from Trinity to start the whole series over again from movie one. Just a hunch.....
****SPOILERS OFF/ STOP SQUINTING *****
-ct

I'm not sure what you mean, there Ct. I gathered that Neo was the 6th iteration of "the One," but that there was only one Architect - he was the original.

And Sovrana, you may enjoy the sequel. In Reloaded, Morpheus is even more of a religious zealot, ranting about the Prophecy, the Oracle, and destiny/fate.

However, we find out some interesting things. First, the Oracle is not really an Oracle at all, but one of the Machines, a part of the Matrix.

In fact, later on you discover that the entire prophecy was a lie, a way of manipulating Neo into paying his little visit to the Architect.

However, I have to disagree with you Ct, about Revolutions being a restart of the cycle. If Neo had walked through the door to his right, that's what would have happened, but he took the door to his left, and saved Trinity, which I gathered was not what his predecessors did, and not what he was expected to do. Then again, maybe it was what they expected him to do.

Okay, enough of that. I sound like one of those wankers who sits around discussing the deep meanings behind Star Wars.

A few other thoughts:

WTF was the point of "the Twins"? They added nothing to the plot or story, they were just there for the neat CGI effects. Useless. Honestly. Remove them from the movie entirely, and what have you lost? Nothing but some visual effects.
Monica Belucci is hot.
Goddamnit, Ric Moranis should have played the Keymaker! I love meta-jokes like that. They really dropped the ball on this one.
No, really, I mean Monica Belucci is smokin' hot. Yowza!
I hate product placement. Did anyone catch it in this flick? Pay attention during the car chase. Trinity steals a Cadillac CTS. The Twins give chase in a Cadillac Escalade. The police cars, and almost every car we see in the whole chase scene is a GM product. None of this distracted me from the plain truth, though: Most GM cars are turds. Perhaps the General would do better to spend its money on making cars that are not turds?
I mean, really, I don't give a rats ass how in love you are with Carrie-Ann Moss, if you need access to a person in order to save the human race (or so you think), and all you have to do in order to get that access is plant one on Monica Belucci, WTF are you hesitating for? Neo's should be a contestant on P-Whipped.

[lawdog]

One other thought: Is there some programming bug in the Matrix that causes the existence of a law of physics whereby it is impossible for one's sunglasses to be knocked off or to fall off? I mean, I've had sunglasses fall off when I bend over to tie my shoe. These mofos are in 50 person Kung Fu battles, whirling around like dervishes*, and none of 'em ever lose their shades.


* I'm not really sure what a dervish is, but whenever I hear about one, it always seems that it was whirling around.

[The Schnoo]

Originally posted by lawdog


I'm not sure what you mean, there Ct. I gathered that Neo was the 6th iteration of "the One," but that there was only one Architect - he was the original.

However, I have to disagree with you Ct, about Revolutions being a restart of the cycle. If Neo had walked through the door to his right, that's what would have happened, but he took the door to his left, and saved Trinity, which I gathered was not what his predecessors did, and not what he was expected to do. Then again, maybe it was what they expected him to do.


Yeah, neo was the 6th ONE, which is stupid. The architect has tried and tried to make a world that is basically perfect, but people didn't want a perfect world, they wanted a complicated world with evil in it and blah blah blah. It is an allegory on religion after all, what did you expect? Who knows which door he was supposed to do what with, it was nearly impossible to understand that architect scene, besides the fact that he said the same things over and over with bigger and bigger words that most people in the audience couldn't understand, the stupid TV thing with neo saying a bunch of things all at once was retarded as fuck. Plus the architect look like colnel sanders, and that was distracting. I can't remember which door he said did which thing. I don't necessarily care either, as i thought the movie was ridiculous.

The twins were in the movie to reinforce what the oracle said about vampires, werewolves and ghosts existing... we have discussed this, and it's stupid, they don't do anything with it, even though that could have been the coolest part in the movie. The twins were ghosts, the molvingian guy was a vampire, and the two guys in the room, when persephone shoots the dude in the head, are werewolves... it's pretty damn lame. Where are the mummies?

-The Schnoo

[DudeMan]

I think the W. brothers read their press-clippings a little too often instead of just putting them in a shoe box like they should have. The result was a pompous mess. Okay, so there were a lot of cool parts in it, but compared with the original it is lacking.

I agree w/most of Lawdog's comments and yeah, okay I still enjoyed it. But it was a definite disappointment.

I like Vicious' comment that it was a 2 hour long eyeware commercial. Did they really have to wear sunglasses even in dark passageways and rooms?

All of the fight scenes went on about twice as long as they needed to. The stupid dancing scene with the citizens of Zion getting their groove on could have been show for 15-20 seconds and we would have gotten the point. Instead it went on forever. The highway scene and the 1,000 smiths fight was innovative, but both started to wear thin.

And I also got sick of it when they kept cutting to that dread-locked operater dude (who was the wheelchair dude in Oz) after Neo did something cool and saying, "Wow that was amazing!" I got the sense they were a little bit worried people wouldn't view this second one as being as innovative as the first, so they had to 'tell us' when something was cool instead of letting us judge for ourselves.

Also, can someone tell me why this was Rated R, ferchrissakes? There was no nudity that you don't see on your average NYPD Blue episode. There was little or no cussing. There were basically no gruesome deaths, unlike the last one where they blasted away cops. So, I'm wondering, why the R?

And, if Neo is so powerful that he can stop bullets, fly, etc., why does he still do kung-fu so much instead of flicking his wrist and killing them? And why does every kung-fu fight he gets into seem to end in a draw, when one person or the other quits or leaves?

Yes, I'm being overly critical of what should be a popcorn flick. But, they set themselves up for a backlash when they started taking themselves too seriously and injecting all of this philosophy crap in here that isn't nearly as profound as they make it out to be.

On the plus side, Keanu did a pretty good job. Laurence is as cool as always, and he got HUGE for this movie, especially when you compare him now to his Furious Styles days in Boyz in the Hood. Effects were cool. Monica Belluci was smokin' smokin' hot in that dress. My god. Jada Pinkett Smith's character was cool (and hot) even though they didn't really develop her all that much. And, I actually kinda liked the ending, especially since it's only 6 months until the finale.

[lawdog]

I got that the dude Persephone capped was a werewolf (silver bullets and all), but I didn't pick up on the idea that the Merovingian was a vampire. I'm not saying that I disagree with you, as most of the scenes involving the Merovingian also featured gratuitous cleavage shots, so it's entirely possible that I missed something. Care to fill me in?

[pathogen.b]

add The Killer to the list of action movies. totally sweet. recently, the oil slick and bike pedal scene from The Transporter was right on (and the first scene/car chase... and the car chase in Ronin.. droooooooooool).

maybe i didn't like the first Matrix b/c i heard how incredibly awesome it was before i had a chance to find out for myself. i wasn't in the mood for man vs. the machines (but against all odds man is saved by "the one"... and that one person is Keanu Reeves. "Hey dude, I'm Siddhartha!" "No way, dude!!" "Way, dude!!!"). then again, Carrie-Anne Moss in tight leather is never a bad thing.

[The Schnoo]

Originally posted by lawdog
I got that the dude Persephone capped was a werewolf (silver bullets and all), but I didn't pick up on the idea that the Merovingian was a vampire. I'm not saying that I disagree with you, as most of the scenes involving the Merovingian also featured gratuitous cleavage shots, so it's entirely possible that I missed something. Care to fill me in?

I'll try to explain this without getting overly into it... Merovingian is a vampiric name in origin, it also refers to a little known computer virus from the early 90's which circulated on the bigger bbses, stealing pieces of info here and there and basically being a total bitch. Plus, if you notice what he talks about in his speech a lot of the stuff he says is the same shit that is said in the uh... i think it's child of dracula, or bride of dracula movies from the 60's... basically all that stuff of learning the worlds languages, blah blah blah, minus the cursing part in the old movies, and the orgasm cake, which was lame as fuck. And if you watch him in the scene where he sic's his thugs on neo, he has some pointy teeth.

Edit: Merovingian also refers to a group of Franc kings (which explains why he is french), apparently descended from christ himself... yet again adding to the religious allegory, however contrived and full of holes as it may be, of these movies. But, if i remember correctly, there is a book, or maybe a movie, where there is a vampire named merovingian and since the wachowskis have a fascination with old cinema, i'd wager they prolly lifted it from one of those sources.

edit 2: after some searching, i have come up with this link http://www.dragoncourt.org/pubasset/toc.asp chapters 1 and 2 deal with the origins of vampirism and how it comes to be that merovingians themselves are included among vampiric lore.... i rest my case.

edit 3: or there is this http://www.tamtamcinema.com/articolodossier.asp?ID=1023&lang=eng which monica belucci then says that they are "vampire-like beings"

That's the best description i can give.

-The Schnoo

[postfeminist]

Did anyone notice the African American guy on the board of Zion's counselors? That was the best cameo ever.

[IronyIs4Suckas]

Postfeminist said : Did anyone notice the African American guy on the board of Zion's counselors? That was the best cameo ever.

Cornel West, fresh for '03 you suckas!

[slow-dog]

Originally posted by The Schnoo


Yeah, neo was the 6th ONE, which is stupid. The architect has tried and tried to make a world that is basically perfect, but people didn't want a perfect world, they wanted a complicated world with evil in it and blah blah blah.

I think you misheard this part. Or maybe I did. It wasn't that the people didn't want a perfect world, it's that it was impossible for the programmers to create a perfect world because they were fallible humans, so he tried to use a feedback mechanism blah blah blah....

Of course, I zoned out when the speaking got too long, so I may have misheard that.

All in all, I thought it was decent. Good enough to make me want to see the third one.

But the Matrix in a Matrix is the worst idea ever. Done. To. Death.

One thing that I don't think anyone mentioned is that some of the effects weren't so special. Maybe I was more keyed into it, because an acquaintance/friend did one of the shots, and he said that some of the shots his company did were shipped before it was really finished. Mostly, I noticed this in the beginning with Trinity falling--they spent all the time animating the shards of glass, but forget to animate her expression, so it looked really fake.

[The Schnoo]

Originally posted by slow-dog


I think you misheard this part. Or maybe I did. It wasn't that the people didn't want a perfect world, it's that it was impossible for the programmers to create a perfect world because they were fallible humans, so he tried to use a feedback mechanism blah blah blah....

Of course, I zoned out when the speaking got too long, so I may have misheard that.

All in all, I thought it was decent. Good enough to make me want to see the third one.

But the Matrix in a Matrix is the worst idea ever. Done. To. Death.

One thing that I don't think anyone mentioned is that some of the effects weren't so special. Maybe I was more keyed into it, because an acquaintance/friend did one of the shots, and he said that some of the shots his company did were shipped before it was really finished. Mostly, I noticed this in the beginning with Trinity falling--they spent all the time animating the shards of glass, but forget to animate her expression, so it looked really fake.

No, the machines, i thought, programmed the matrix... i'm probably wrong.. probably because i really didn't like the movie at all.


I mentioned in my review on my site that the effects looked bad in most parts....

i feel the movie is bad, full of a lot of holes that won't be sealed by the third movie.

Did anyone else catch the gay vibe coming from the councellor during his talk with neo in the engineering sector? He wanted a piece of the one.

-The Schnoo

[Milkman Dan]

The more I think about this film the more it makes me a.) not really enjoy it that much b.) want more chop sokee guns c.) want to see the third one.

I'm very torn because basically I personally dont know if this film isn't as strong as the first one, or it just compliments the first one and makes it better... I just need to see it again me thinks.

I agree with the scenes dragging to long and with good shorter scenes would have had them hit harder and not drag.

But then again I'm so surrounded by the Matrix media blitz that I can't really get it out of my head....

[Candyass]

I saw it this weekend and I really liked it...Whenever I go to movies I kind of just let shit go. I am not there to think. I just want high action and hot women. Trinity was amazing. I thought the scene with that Italian woman was LAME and she's not so hot... I also found myself thinking if those talking scenes weren't so long, there could be more fighting. And the music sucked...

What was good? The chase scene with Trinity on the Ducati was my favorite part!!!

And did anyone notice that when Neo was talking to the Architect, and they were talking about how shitty humans are, there was a big clip of George W. in the background. I think it was right after the holocaust images.

[The Schnoo]

Yeah.. i noticed the george w. part...

if you want to see a movie that takes it action cues from the matrix, but is actually good, cool and not just thrown together to make money, see Equilibrium.

It's kind of the action retelling of Farenheit 451 and with christian bale shootin dudes all day.

-The Schnoo

[DogStarMan]

I heard the fight scenes were awesome!!!!

http://digitaldialecte.com/images/matrixcat.gif

Stop trying to scratch me and scratch me!

[c-lando]

Originally posted by DogStarMan
I heard the fight scenes were awesome!!!!

http://digitaldialecte.com/images/matrixcat.gif

Stop trying to scratch me and scratch me! Thanks, DSM. That made my day. :)

Oh...I found this to be an entertaining review filled with suggestions for the third...while there is MAYBE still hope.

http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/reviews/unloading_on_the_matrix_reloaded.shtml

[c-lando]

Originally posted by Candyass
What was good? The chase scene with Trinity on the Ducati was my favorite part!!!Best product placement in the movie...

[The Schnoo]

So, if you've played through the video game you now know exactly what's gonna happen in the third movie. It is a matrix within a matrix, or so it would seem, since i don't feel like typing it out i'll just post what is on dark horizons, here's a synopsis of what happens in the games "interweaving" story line:

"The Oracle (played by an actress named Mary Alice, due to Gloria Foster's death; I assume this means that Mary Alice will play the Oracle in Revolutions, as well) states that a "special child" who will "change the world" is the child of two programs similar to herself. If she means Neo, this would suggest that Neo is a program and thus that Zion is still part of the Matrix. The Oracle says the two programs betrayed her for their love by giving Merovingian (the French information-collector guy, played by Lambert Wilson) her termination key. The Oracle allowed this because she wanted the programs to have their special child.
A hobo with longish blond hair who also appears in the Revolutions trailer has a conversation with Niobe (Jada Pinket-Smith) in which he reveals that the Zion before this one "only lasted 72 hours". Niobe volunteered to be the second ship to enter the Matrix and contact the Nebuchadnezzar because her boyfriend, Command Lock revealed to her that he had arranged for her ship, the Logos, to be the only one not to participate in the defense of Zion, in order to protect her, and she was angry. At the end of the events of Reloaded, Niobi and Ghost's hovercraft (Logos) has crashed in an uncharted underground area and they do not know how they will be found and rescued".

so there you have it... matrix within a matrix, or they're gonna make it a wacky twilight zone ending where everything was a video game.

retarded shit.

-The Schnoo

[The Schnoo]

looking around the internet today i found this: http://www.theantitrust.net/articles/viewarticle.php?articleid=108

it's a transcript of the architect's conversation with neo.. it's even more boring to read than it was to watch.

But it should clear up any confusion that is being had with this part of the movie.

-The Schnoo

[berzerker]

Since it seems that we all pretty much have seen it, I suppose it don't matter if I throw in my $.02

Seems like the whole matrix within a matrix thing makes a bit of sense. I don't like it - it's like the whole "it was all a dream" BS they do on daytime dramas. But anyway, if you think about it, Neo was able to destroy the Sentinels in the "real world." And then he was in a coma. So, maybe he wasn't really in a coma, he was in the other matrix.

On another train of thought, I think that the architect was fulla shit. Think about it - the best way to bring someone down a peg or two is tell him he's not that special. "Yeah, there's been 5 other "ones" and they all failed. So you aren't all that, Keanu."

All in all, a pretty good movie. Awesome action, almost flawless CG, overly-lengthy dialog about mythology, and unneccessary dancing.

[Bobbydigital999]

I thought that the screens behind Neo were showing him and his predecessors.

[The Schnoo]

Originally posted by Bobbydigital999
I thought that the screens behind Neo were showing him and his predecessors.


no, just all his different responses

[Bobbydigital999]

Anyone ever thought that the machines aren't using humans for power(geo-thermal is just one of the more efficient power sources I can think of)Maybe they lack the ability to create without human input. It would seem if they were using us for power to shut off the biggest power drain on us the brain.

[EDIT]:Maybe they give us these dreams to help them a)understand us b)Improve thier own abilities. Also I think Zion was programmed for the 1% who didn't accept the Matrix so as not to waste them.

BTW I did like the movie. It was too long and verbose, and too cliffhangy(?), but I liked it. Also it suckered me into almost having to see part 3 just to take care of my curiosity about the end.

[The Schnoo]

Originally posted by berzerker
All in all, a pretty good movie. Awesome action, almost flawless CG, overly-lengthy dialog about mythology, and unneccessary dancing.

i felt the action was trite and predictable as though master wo ping just decided to coreograph pretty much what they did in the last movie, only this time more ballet-ish

The cg really wasn't that good, unless you mean the ships, they looked decent.. other than that, john gaeda is a hack who couldn't cut it at ILM... shoulda got weta workshop (the people who do LOTR) to do the effects in this film, would have been sweet then... The problems with the effects come in the flight scenes and in the scene where neo fights the agent smiths... when he turns from real neo to fake cg puppet neo, it looks AWFUL.. the skin textures and clothes textures are worse than a cg cinema from the early playstation days.

and yes, the dialogue was boring as hell... that rave scene made no sense at all..

Equilibrium is a movie you should watch, it's far more fascinating than even the matrix is and not as long winded and *snore* boring.

-The Schnoo

[Bobbydigital999]

.Dark City was a good Matrix minus the action.

[IronyIs4Suckas]

Originally posted by Bobbydigital999
.Dark City was a good Matrix minus the action.
I'll agree, dark city is one of my favorite sci-fi films, but you could also mention eXistenZ along side it. Actually existenz and the matrix were released the same year and existenz got far better reviews. As for me, i love the David Cronenberg.

[slow-dog]

Originally posted by The Schnoo
looking around the internet today i found this: http://www.theantitrust.net/articles/viewarticle.php?articleid=108

it's a transcript of the architect's conversation with neo.. it's even more boring to read than it was to watch.

But it should clear up any confusion that is being had with this part of the movie.


Cool! Thanks!

[slow-dog]

Originally posted by The Schnoo



no, just all his different responses

That's not what I got reading that link you sent. *The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Bullshit!"*

[Bobbydigital999]

Also when the Architecht tells him he's the 6th the monitors say 3 others, 4 before me, etc... The only time they show the current Neo alone seems to be at the end when he makes his choice.

[The Schnoo]

oh, guess i misunderstood it then.. or something.

[Bobbydigital999]

None of us exactly knows until revolutions comes out:confused:

[berzerker]

Maybe this should be on the Net category, and maybe it will be. But go here (http://www.oddtodd.com) anyway and click on the green here's this here for some fun stuff. :cool:

[Milkman Dan]

It's strange watching flash cartoons at school with no sound... but I usually fill them in myself and it works out okay.

I feel so alone in this world thinking that this movie was actually good AND having something (note: in very broad/general in scope) to say.

[Milkman Dan]

Going here (http://thematrixonline.warnerbros.com) , which is a project which I completely forgot about not only excites me but makes one wonder if the matrix within a matrix theory really holds true, or is it something else.

It states that the story is penned by the brothers...

[DogStarMan]

Originally posted by Milkman Dan
I feel so alone in this world thinking that this movie was actually good AND having something (note: in very broad/general in scope) to say.
Don't worry...I'll see it soon and then we can dance and sing praises to it together. I'm pretty much 100% sure I'm gonna' love it. So far, all I've read in this thread is fanboy simpering, petty complaints and minor annoyances.

BTW...cool link...I'm gonna' have to delve into that for awhile.

[IPrayForSound]

Originally posted by Milkman Dan
AND having something ... to say.
Of course it had something to say. And that something is "Keanu Reeves was more willing to do a nude scene than Carrie-Anne Moss". :)

[Milkman Dan]

It's like there's something WRONG with being a fan-boy now-a-days, like we dorks can't just enjoy a movie because of it's quote-un-quote lesser qualities.

Can't enjoy movies, only watch films.

[Milkman Dan]

Originally posted by IPrayForSound

Of course it had something to say. And that something is "Keanu Reeves was more willing to do a nude scene than Carrie-Anne Moss". :)

I think I got to see enough of Carrie, and seeing the pulsing supple ass of Keanu more than made up for it.

I love when she wraps her legs around him in comfort after that scene. It just looks silly, but then again Carrie Ann Moss wrapping her naked thighs around anything is no real laughing matter.

[The Schnoo]

Originally posted by Milkman Dan
It's like there's something WRONG with being a fan-boy now-a-days, like we dorks can't just enjoy a movie because of it's quote-un-quote lesser qualities.

Can't enjoy movies, only watch films.


It's not that, that's not even why i feel it's bad, or why i think people who like it are stupid. It's because i simply feel it was a bad movie. It's sad that equilibrium, a movie that had 1/10 the reloaded budget, was in 1/10th the amount of theaters and made 1/10th the amount of money, but was 200 times better and 1000 times what the new matrix should have been. This movie is fantastic and it's shootouts and action scenes are far more original and well thought out than the reloaded ones.

Here's what i think is missing from the new matrix: heart. The first movie is pretty brutal, the sound effects are loud and mean sounding. The music is sort of generic but it was still cool because it melded well with the action. It was a very dark movie because they didn't have the money to build elaborate sets, they had to drape parts of the scenery in darkness to cover up this lack of budget. It's the same reason the new star wars movies aren't all that great, they have too much money. It's what always happens, something is fantastic when the people actually have to innovate and put their heart into it, but once you GIVE someone everything they need to do it, the heart kind of leaves because there's not a challenge there, you know you can get anything you need to make it because it will make back all the money the first week. I also don't think that if you make a lesbian drama, "bound", and a decent-but-hardly-groundbreaking sci-fi movie, the matrix, that someone should give you 200 million dollars to make two more... It just shouldn't happen.

-The Schnoo

[Bobbydigital999]

Did you forget how hollywood works?
'The Matrix'-60mil budget---147mil domestic(oodles world+video)
'Reloaded+Revolutions'-300mil budget---'Reloaded' already is passing 150mil in a week.

capitalist society driven by the almighty dollar.
Also without mega blockbusters like 'Reloaded' or 'Harry Potter' studios wouldn't have the money to make the types of films which appeal to less broad audiences.

[Milkman Dan]

Originally posted by The Schnoo
It's what always happens, something is fantastic when the people actually have to innovate and put their heart into it, but once you GIVE someone everything they need to do it, the heart kind of leaves because there's not a challenge there, you know you can get anything you need to make it because it will make back all the money the first week.

That's a really good point, and is quite evident in the movie. I dunno, I guess it's just like I said... I'm just so wrapped up in Matrix media and periphinelia that it's hard for me to turn it off, and I just love it so much.

I will have to say though, out of all of the mediums that the matrix has been put to recently, the new movie is the weakest.

GOD i want to see it again though. Why must I be sucked in? The Matrix truely has me.

[Hipster Dufus]

Originally posted by The Schnoo



i think people who like it are stupid.

-The Schnoo

Good point! You've got me convinced!!

I think all conservative voters are racist too! How about you?

[The Schnoo]

Originally posted by Hipster Dufus


Good point! You've got me convinced!!

I think all conservative voters are racist too! How about you?


sorry that i'm not allowed to have an opinion that doesn't concur with yours. I'm also sorry you're oh-so-bad at sarcasm.

The thing is, I do think people who like it are stupid, everyone wants things to change to be better in hollywood and yet tripe like this escapes and makes millions.

I have explained my problems with the movie, now explain what is so great about it.

-The Schnoo

[slow-dog]

Originally posted by The Schnoo



sorry that i'm not allowed to have an opinion that doesn't concur with yours. I'm also sorry you're oh-so-bad at sarcasm.

The thing is, I do think people who like it are stupid, everyone wants things to change to be better in hollywood and yet tripe like this escapes and makes millions.

I have explained my problems with the movie, now explain what is so great about it.


Schnoo, the last part of your post got cut:

"Now, I must hurry back to my comic book store, where I dispense the insults, rather than absorb them"

[The Schnoo]

Originally posted by slow-dog


Schnoo, the last part of your post got cut:

"Now, I must hurry back to my comic book store, where I dispense the insults, rather than absorb them"

I did, infact, forget that.

-The Schnoo

[slow-dog]

Originally posted by The Schnoo


I did, infact, forget that.

:)

[butter_of_69]

So, if I read The Schnoo's summation in this thread, most parts of the movie are stupid, and if you like it you're stupid.

Mmmm-k.

I didn't love it, but I thought it was a decent waste of $5.75.

Why does Neo have to fly with his fist sticking out? That's really the only part I don't get. The rest of it I can go read an FAQ for. I liked the talky parts, at least as far as I could understand them.

And, my God, the CGI effects weren't THAT bad. As bad as a PS cut-scene? C'mon. Sure, the CGI Neo in the mega-Smith's fight scene was obvious, but it wasn't that bad.

[DogStarMan]

We saw it last Sunday night. I loved it, but I'm a sucker for anything wire-fu. My wife liked it too, but it gave her a blinding headache.

The dialog really reminded me of dialog from Star Wars. High concept and lofty ideals that sound kinda' corny and ridiculous, but you're supposed to take completely seriously. It was like a roller coaster, fast and intense with just enough uphill breathers to get you ready for the next downhill ride. I have to say that even though I read this whole thread before seeing it, I missed so much of some of the things you guys discussed. I need to watch it about two or three more times. I also agree with butter about the quality of the CG. I was kinda' half-heartedly looking for flaws and I really didn't see any. Nothing so obvious like the Quidditch match in "Harry Potter" or some of the fight scenes in "Blade II" jumped right out at me. If I had to wait any longer than a few months for the next installment, I'd bitch about the ending, but it will be all tied up soon.

And that whole "flying with the fist out" thing, my issue on that is, if he's The One, why can't he just teleport around into different people like the agents do, instead of actually having to travel in the first place? I guess besides being able to fight real good, fly, stop bullets and see the underlying code of the Matrix, being The One just doesn't have that much to offer. :rolleyes:

[lawdog]

Originally posted by DogStarMan
I guess besides being able to fight real good, fly, stop bullets and see the underlying code of the Matrix, being The One just doesn't have that much to offer.

I think you neglected to mention "being able to bump uglies with Carrie Ann Moss." Chicks dig The One.

[DogStarMan]

I meant to leave that out. Carrie Ann Moss is about as sexy as a Slim Jim, and since I'm not Randy Savage, I wouldn't snap into that if you paid me.

[butter_of_69]

Originally posted by DogStarMan
I meant to leave that out. Carrie Ann Moss is about as sexy as a Slim Jim, and since I'm not Randy Savage, I wouldn't snap into that if you paid me.

Best post ever.

[The Schnoo]

Originally posted by butter_of_69
So, if I read The Schnoo's summation in this thread, most parts of the movie are stupid, and if you like it you're stupid.

I said parts of the movie are cool, the movie as a whole is awful and has problems that style-over-substance cannot solve.

There is too much time spent in zion, there is that awful rave scene, there are the flying scenes that just look bad, when you take the matrix out of the matrix it gets just the slightest bit boring. There's bad CG Keanu. There's no GOOD shoot out scene or action set piece that really blew me away, like the lobby shootout in the first movie. There is too much slow motion. There is not enough explanation as to why Neo can't rip apart anyones code anymore. The dialogue in the movie is just sucky, it's so high minded that it's bad, i mean i'm all for high minded dialogue in action movies, don't get me wrong.... I'm also all for action movies that have some real action. Why did this movie have an R rating if it's intention was just to be a talky pg-13 movie with a bare ass and some nipples shown through shirts?

A lot of the people i've talked to about the movie like it on a level that isn't just liking it as a movie, or a waste of a sunday afternoon or whatever. They like it on some religious fervor-type level, and have seen it 3-5 times apiece. I think if you like this movie that much, you are an idiot. I also think that if you are one of the people who complain and complain about how hollywood doesn't put out anything but crap and how they need fresh ideas and innovation and you turn around and think this movie is "really good" then you are stupid.

But if you just like the movie for no particular reason, say you just enjoy bad movies, then i can understand that and I don't think you're stupid. I apologize for not making myself clearer on this.

-The Schnoo

[Milkman Dan]

I think the let down part on this movie, after much thought, is the fact that it's the middle movie. I felt the very same way after seeing Two Towers. It's the middle of a grand story, and I don't believe I can really judge untill i see the third film.

I had no problems with the dialouge. It can be rough at times, I dont think that it carried as well as the first one, but I think that's because the first one stands on it's own. This movie realies on a lot of other factors; if you played the game, and if you've seen the third film, which none of us have.

I have a great amount of faith in this series, and while I do see the flaws, I truely believe opinions will change once the third one comes to light.

And the "bad" CG Neo is a staple of all action movies now. It was in Spiderman, it was in this, and will be in the Hulk. I hate it too, but there's not much else they can use for that kind of shot right now. Maybe they should have spent the 40 gazillion dollars developing that technology.

Lastly, after watching the first movie again last night, the ONLY reason I can figure that Neo doesn't go around exploding agents is because either A.) he can't because they're "upgrades" (which seems silly... but he does state it people... also it took a bit of concentration on his part to do it too, and fighting 50 agent Smiths who are trying to kill you isn't really a zen moment.
) or B.) realizes he's exploding an innocent person.
But isn't chopping their ass just as bad? I turn you to Terminator 2, when Arnold shot the cop in the knee caps:

"He'll live."

[The Schnoo]

Originally posted by Milkman Dan
I think the let down part on this movie, after much thought, is the fact that it's the middle movie. I felt the very same way after seeing Two Towers. It's the middle of a grand story, and I don't believe I can really judge untill i see the third film.

I had no problems with the dialouge. It can be rough at times, I dont think that it carried as well as the first one, but I think that's because the first one stands on it's own. This movie realies on a lot of other factors; if you played the game, and if you've seen the third film, which none of us have.

I have a great amount of faith in this series, and while I do see the flaws, I truely believe opinions will change once the third one comes to light.

And the "bad" CG Neo is a staple of all action movies now. It was in Spiderman, it was in this, and will be in the Hulk. I hate it too, but there's not much else they can use for that kind of shot right now. Maybe they should have spent the 40 gazillion dollars developing that technology.

Lastly, after watching the first movie again last night, the ONLY reason I can figure that Neo doesn't go around exploding agents is because either A.) he can't because they're "upgrades" (which seems silly... but he does state it people... also it took a bit of concentration on his part to do it too, and fighting 50 agent Smiths who are trying to kill you isn't really a zen moment.
) or B.) realizes he's exploding an innocent person.
But isn't chopping their ass just as bad? I turn you to Terminator 2, when Arnold shot the cop in the knee caps:

"He'll live."

See, I don't feel that way about two towers, it was continuing on and getting better, fellowship was good, towers was great and i think rotk will be the best ever. I can judge each movie on it's own merit, and i will, matrix was a solid, if not derivative, film. Reloaded is a jumble of ideas and pretentious dialogue.

It's not that I think that the dialogue is rough. I feel that the same movie could have been made without the pretentious dialogue, it's like the wachowskis got an english degree and decided to comb the dictionary for the largest words they could. Now i understood every word but that's just because i was always a fan of vocabulary things, but some of my friends whom i went to the movie with didn't quite understand a lot of what the architect, or morpheus, or the oracle or merovingian said. It gets too high minded, if you watch original matrix, everything is straight forward, very simple to understand, you have neo, who may or may not be the one, you have the matrix and you have the real world. You are left at the end of the film with him understanding the matrix, being able to read the code and hack it. Look at the last thing he says in the movie:

“I know you're out there. I can feel you now.
I know that you're afraid... afraid of us.
You're afraid of change. I don't know the future.
I didn't come here to tell you how this
is going to end. I came here to tell how
it's going to begin. I'm going to hang up this
phone, and then show these people what
you don't want them to see. I'm going to show
them a world without you. A world without
rules or controls, borders or boundaries.
A world where anything is possible. Where
we go from there is a choice I leave to you.”

WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS NEO?!

He didn't show anyone anything, he just flew around and shit... that's it.

The CG neo isn't the only bad thing, pretty much all the CG in the entire movie is bad. The only good looking thing are the ships when they are docking. The bald guy in the big robot with the guns was soooo fake looking, it was just bad, i mean, if you have that much money then fucking use it for god's sake. The thing about the hulk is, the hulk has to be CGI, and i can accept that and look at it like "that is cool" because the Hulk is impossibly huge and couldn't be done without CGI. Where as with neo, he is a real dude, he's supposed to look like a real dude. I see keanu reeves and he looks real, then suddenly he is a GI joe figure, and no, it wouldn't have been impossible to do these scenes without CG neo. He could have been real, the agent smiths could have been fake cause they looked decent, most of the shit that they spent the extra money on to make CG could have been done with wire work. I dunno, i can understand CG in impossible shots, but not with this.

I dunno, it bothers me a lot, and maybe that's why i hate this movie so much. It's like they forgot what they were making.

I liked some of the ideas, like old programs that have taken on the qualities of vampires and werewolves and ghosts, but they do little to nothing with this at all. It would have been cool to see him have to fight these things because maybe he couldn't have just destroyed them by hacking their code, but they didn't, if nothing else they are mentioned and then treated as a sort of footnote. But as far as the upgraded agents go, that's a cop out, if he is "the one" and he is the best hacker ever and all that, he should be able to hack their code. You don't see real crackers and hackers and such be like "ooh, upgrades, guess i can't do anything" when a new encryption code or program comes out, so why would he do that?

I will admit that the preview for the third movie looks kick ass, however, the preview for this one looked kick ass.

-The Schnoo

[Milkman Dan]

Originally posted by The Schnoo
See, I don't feel that way about two towers, it was continuing on and getting better, fellowship was good, towers was great and i think rotk will be the best ever. I can judge each movie on it's own merit, and i will, matrix was a solid, if not derivative, film. Reloaded is a jumble of ideas and pretentious dialogue.

Well I didn't feel as though the Two Towers was a bunch pretentious ideas about life and what have you, but I did feel as though it was missing something. It picked up right after the first one ended, which to someone whom hasn't seen the first one at all or in awhile, ie me, it can be hard to get into at first. Then it just sorta... stops. You have the feeling that you could watch it for another 4 hours, but you can't, cause Jackson says "alright, enough of this..." and cuts it. Not that it's a bad thing, but it's also a fault of the Book(s), being that they aren't supposed to be seperate. It's one huge story. But I digress...

Onto the dialouge, after watching the first one I realize how large a role dialouge takes in these films. I never really caught onto it the first time through and after much discussion, realized how almost everything said by somebody played against something else, especially with the Oracle.

Originally posted by The Schnoo
It's not that I think that the dialogue is rough. I feel that the same movie could have been made without the pretentious dialogue, it's like the wachowskis got an english degree and decided to comb the dictionary for the largest words they could.... It gets too high minded, if you watch original matrix, everything is straight forward, very simple to understand, you have neo, who may or may not be the one, you have the matrix and you have the real world.

Maybe you're right. Maybe they are just fluffing it with large words to make it seem more like a thinking mans action flick, when it just comes off sounding like an episode of Dawson Creek.

But again I think that it has to do with the fact that this is the middle story, and I believe that things said in this film will play off into the third, and make the second one become more clear and infact become a wholestic entity. Proof of this, I believe, is the fact that the second and third movies were roughed out, but the first one had to be done in a light that it was going to be the only one, not a series, and would continue based on it's success. We KNOW the third one is coming, so aspects can be left out or ideas plot left unanswered. Clever marketing or good film-making? I vote good film making.

Originally posted by The Schnoo
You are left at the end of the film with him understanding the matrix, being able to read the code and hack it. Look at the last thing he says in the movie:

((see The Schnoo's post to see what he says))

WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS NEO?!

He didn't show anyone anything, he just flew around and shit... that's it.

I think this is a flaw in the fact that we dont know what happened between the first and second film. I truly believe if I saw a dude fly into the sky, that my perceptions would become a bit skewed. All we know that is whatever took place between Matrix and Matrix: Reloaded, the machines are DONE, and they are coming.

A perspective that I think is missing is a still plugged in persons perspective on the events at hand. You saw in the first movie news reports in the openning shots with Neo sleeping of "fugitive on the run: Morpheus" and "international man hunt". You don't get these kinds of perspectives, as it's mostly centered around (in this film especially) the antics of the heros and the villians.

Originally posted by The Schnoo
The CG neo isn't the only bad thing, pretty much all the CG in the entire movie is bad. The only good looking thing are the ships when they are docking. The bald guy in the big robot with the guns was soooo fake looking, it was just bad, i mean, if you have that much money then fucking use it for god's sake. The thing about the hulk is, the hulk has to be CGI, and i can accept that and look at it like "that is cool" because the Hulk is impossibly huge and couldn't be done without CGI. Where as with neo, he is a real dude, he's supposed to look like a real dude. I see keanu reeves and he looks real, then suddenly he is a GI joe figure, and no, it wouldn't have been impossible to do these scenes without CG neo. He could have been real, the agent smiths could have been fake cause they looked decent, most of the shit that they spent the extra money on to make CG could have been done with wire work. I dunno, i can understand CG in impossible shots, but not with this.

Point taken, and I did notice watching the first one again how dark everything was and how it made it seem more stylized. Also there was truely a lack of real pizzaz until the final scenes. Could it be that there was to much fighting in this one film?

Money could have been syphoned to other parts, I suppose, and I think part of this is because I became so enthralled with the "created NEW technology just for this movie when I really didnt' see anything I hadn't seen before, except some stuff bigger and brighter. Victim of overhype.

Originally posted by The Schnoo
I liked some of the ideas, like old programs that have taken on the qualities of vampires and werewolves and ghosts, but they do little to nothing with this at all. It would have been cool to see him have to fight these things because maybe he couldn't have just destroyed them by hacking their code, but they didn't, if nothing else they are mentioned and then treated as a sort of footnote. But as far as the upgraded agents go, that's a cop out, if he is "the one" and he is the best hacker ever and all that, he should be able to hack their code. You don't see real crackers and hackers and such be like "ooh, upgrades, guess i can't do anything" when a new encryption code or program comes out, so why would he do that?

It would seem like a cop out, and I really dont think that's the reason. I believe it was more the second, that it takes a bit of "focus" on his part to break an agent. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Again, this is all from a "fan-boy" whose in love with the game, Trinity, and the whole lot of it. Perhaps, much like the game, we didn't really get the ground breaking revolution that the media told us, and instead got something excellent on it's own merits, yet isn't going to win any awards. Course... neither will Lord of the Rings. And Star Wars sure as hell didn't.

[The Schnoo]

Originally posted by Milkman Dan
Well I didn't feel as though the Two Towers was a bunch pretentious ideas about life and what have you, but I did feel as though it was missing something. It picked up right after the first one ended, which to someone whom hasn't seen the first one at all or in awhile, ie me, it can be hard to get into at first. Then it just sorta... stops. You have the feeling that you could watch it for another 4 hours, but you can't, cause Jackson says "alright, enough of this..." and cuts it. Not that it's a bad thing, but it's also a fault of the Book(s), being that they aren't supposed to be seperate. It's one huge story. But I digress...

Yes, but you know the first movie exists, and if you remember, the books are split up into 3 stories. Regardless of this, you know it's 3 books and 3 movies and they are supposed to be.

Originally posted by Milkman Dan Onto the dialouge, after watching the first one I realize how large a role dialouge takes in these films. I never really caught onto it the first time through and after much discussion, realized how almost everything said by somebody played against something else, especially with the Oracle.

Maybe you're right. Maybe they are just fluffing it with large words to make it seem more like a thinking mans action flick, when it just comes off sounding like an episode of Dawson Creek.

But again I think that it has to do with the fact that this is the middle story, and I believe that things said in this film will play off into the third, and make the second one become more clear and infact become a wholestic entity. Proof of this, I believe, is the fact that the second and third movies were roughed out, but the first one had to be done in a light that it was going to be the only one, not a series, and would continue based on it's success. We KNOW the third one is coming, so aspects can be left out or ideas plot left unanswered. Clever marketing or good film-making? I vote good film making.

Not true, again, they had a contract, they were making 3 movies regardless, the first was just to see what kind of a budget they would get on the 2nd and then the 3rd one...just so happened the first one was a mega-hit. It has nothing to do with plot points being unanswered or leaving things out, the movie is just bad. It's a combination factors, acting being one of the main ones. I do love laurence fishburne, never let it be said he isn't a great actor, and hugo weaving is great, and of course the late great gloria foster. The problem is, everyone else is bad. Link? awful, the kid? awful, carrie anne moss? godawful, any of the bit parts are played by actors you've never heard of and probably won't anymore. Now look at two other examples, Equilibrium is a small movie with a small budget with an incredible cast, populated by character actors who do a great job with what little they were probably being paid. Now look at lord of the rings, this is a huge budget movie, populated with incredible actors in every turn, no matter how small the part, all of them are well trained, really great actors. Now in the matrix, even with all their money, they get nobodies.. it's the same problem you have with the star wars movies these days... it's not like the original trilogy where you had good british character actors that took their roles seriously even if it was something as stupid as a seargent on a star destroyer. I feel in the matrix that the kid and link are just as annoying as jar jar binks, or even the whole of the gungan race.



Originally posted by Milkman Dan
I think this is a flaw in the fact that we dont know what happened between the first and second film. I truly believe if I saw a dude fly into the sky, that my perceptions would become a bit skewed. All we know that is whatever took place between Matrix and Matrix: Reloaded, the machines are DONE, and they are coming.

A perspective that I think is missing is a still plugged in persons perspective on the events at hand. You saw in the first movie news reports in the openning shots with Neo sleeping of "fugitive on the run: Morpheus" and "international man hunt". You don't get these kinds of perspectives, as it's mostly centered around (in this film especially) the antics of the heros and the villians.

Yes, your perceptions would be skewed, but it doesn't look like he's helped anyone since then, though he should have. Apparently not much HAS happened between the first and the second movie, that's the problem. Something should have happened, but nothing did, tank's gone, that's about the only real difference. What else? nothing is explained, and apparently nothing will be explained.



Originally posted by Milkman Dan
Point taken, and I did notice watching the first one again how dark everything was and how it made it seem more stylized. Also there was truely a lack of real pizzaz until the final scenes. Could it be that there was to much fighting in this one film?

Money could have been syphoned to other parts, I suppose, and I think part of this is because I became so enthralled with the "created NEW technology just for this movie when I really didnt' see anything I hadn't seen before, except some stuff bigger and brighter. Victim of overhype.

Movies create new technology all the time for their special effects, look at any interview for any larger scale movie. Reign of Fire, Lord of the Rings, The Matrix, Star Wars, The Hulk, Xmen, X2, Daredevil, Spiderman, fucking bubble boy and dungeons and dragons for god's sake. There is too much fighting in this movie, and why does he use kung fu at all? he could punch THROUGH someone if he wanted to.



Originally posted by Milkman Dan It would seem like a cop out, and I really dont think that's the reason. I believe it was more the second, that it takes a bit of "focus" on his part to break an agent. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Again, this is all from a "fan-boy" whose in love with the game, Trinity, and the whole lot of it. Perhaps, much like the game, we didn't really get the ground breaking revolution that the media told us, and instead got something excellent on it's own merits, yet isn't going to win any awards. Course... neither will Lord of the Rings. And Star Wars sure as hell didn't.


I don't think it takes focus really, because he learned how to do it, he reached inside trinity and made her heart beat again. You don't even see him hesitate, just reaches in and does it. He also sees the code now, always sees it, that's how he predicts peoples moves, is able to do the things he does. In fact lord of the rings did win awards, so did the original matrix (oscar for best special affects, even if john gaeda is a hack).

I don't like to let myself get caught up in the hype of something, and i didn't this time. I feel as though I have made my arguments based on going into the movie and not really thinking much about it, yes i watched the trailer, but i wasn't even close to being excited about seeing the movie. I was like "that looks badass" then i went and saw x2 like 3 times and it was awesome, then i saw the matrix reloaded and I didn't feel cheated or anything, just felt it was bad movie. Maybe the 3rd one will make me like it, i doubt it. Oh well, here's to Matrix: Raveolutions.

-The Schnoo

[butter_of_69]

Originally posted by The Schnoo
Now look at lord of the rings, this is a huge budget movie, populated with incredible actors in every turn, no matter how small the part, all of them are well trained, really great actors.

Now, now, let's not go crazy. All of the hobbits are bad. I like Elijah Wood and Sean Astin as people, but they are out of their emotional range in their 2 roles here. And the "comic relief" pair are equally poor.

[foolsgold]

Originally posted by The Schnoo
There is too much fighting in this movie, and why does he use kung fu at all? he could punch THROUGH someone if he wanted to.

Ummm, forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't the Matrix science fiction. You people are taking this movie waaaaaaaaay too seriously. At the end of the day, it is still just a facking movie.

[Milkman Dan]

Originally posted by butter_of_69


Now, now, let's not go crazy. All of the hobbits are bad. I like Elijah Wood and Sean Astin as people, but they are out of their emotional range in their 2 roles here. And the "comic relief" pair are equally poor.

I think they're doing quite well actually in their roles, and while I never find myself really hurtingly into gut wrenching laughter at Pippin and Merry (correct hobbits?), they don't annoy me to the point of pupil dialation and murder.

Nore did I find the "rave" scene bad either. Maybe I'm just loosing my critical edge on film.

[Milkman Dan]

Originally posted by foolsgold


Ummm, forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't the Matrix science fiction. You people are taking this movie waaaaaaaaay too seriously. At the end of the day, it is still just a facking movie.

It is just a movie. But you know, I live a life through movies and the paraphernalia that it spawns. I love it all, and will breath in every bit. For I am dork and these discussions are what feed my passion!

[foolsgold]

Fair enough, Milkman Dan, fair enough. I get that way about things too, I suppose.

Signed,
Black Kettle

[DogStarMan]

Originally posted by butter_of_69
Now, now, let's not go crazy. All of the hobbits are bad. I like Elijah Wood and Sean Astin as people, but they are out of their emotional range in their 2 roles here. And the "comic relief" pair are equally poor.
And that tree guy's CGI was crap...I mean, what kinda' tree looks like that? Totally unrealistic. So many questions went unanswered, like, what is really behind that little green dude's loin cloth and is that elf guy really gay and have a crush on the dwarf dude. I guess I'll have to wait for the next movie.

[Milkman Dan]

Originally posted by DogStarMan

And that tree guy's CGI was crap...I mean, what kinda' tree looks like that? Totally unrealistic. So many questions went unanswered, like, what is really behing that little green dude's loin cloth and is that elf guy really gay and have a crush on the dwarf dude. I guess I'll have to wait for the next movie.

I love you.

[cuddlyevil]

Not quite a review, but interesting:

Egypt bans US blockbuster movie Matrix Reloaded

CAIRO (AFP) - The Hollywhood science fiction hit movie Matrix Reloaded has been banned in Egypt for threatening to offend traditional religious views on the creation of humankind, the chief censor revealed.

The director of artistic censorship, Madkur Thabet, said that "despite its excellent technical level, the film was banned because it deals with subjects like human existence and creation.

"And these are questions linked to the three monotheistic religions that we respect and which we believe in," Thabet added. "These questions have in the past provoked crises and tension."

He said the decision was taken by a "committee of university professors and cinema experts."

In addition, he said, "the film has too many scenes of violence at a time when we are trying to fight this phenomenon."

The distributors of the movie have the right to appeal the ruling to a committee within the culture ministry.

Egyptian censors banned the original Matrix in 1999, but the distribution company had obtained permission to show it after appealing it to the ministry commission.

The sequel, starring Keanu Reeves (news), took 91.7 million dollars at the US and Canadian boxoffice -- the second-best weekend opening ever, box office trackers Exhibitor Relations said May 18.

"The Matrix Reloaded," the second in a planned trilogy -- had the best opening of all time for an R-rated film, the label given to movies not recommended for children under 17.

The film is a dark fantasy, which retains the mix of pseudo eastern philosophy and Western mythology, spectacular fight scenes and lavish special effects that made the 1999 original such a hit.

Reeves, who plays the series' Kung fu kicking, shades-wearing hero, Neo, is back as part of the band of rebels who battle intelligent machines in a future in which humans are enslaved within the Matrix -- a virtual reality that looks very much like Los Angeles today.

It was released by the US studio Warner Bros.

[chicodaman]

IF there is still someone who hasn't seen it yet...

****SPOILER****
I think Neo is actually a machine ... stray or not under the Matix' control. I didn't know what to make of the machine stopping at the end of it.


Missed the trailer at the end. Does it look good?