the "What if..." game

[Duemellon]

Okay, this is a theoretic post just wondering what would've happened if X or Y was different...

these are my own, i'm interested in what anyone may have thought would be a different sequence of events for anything else...

The South Won the Civil War
If the Confederacy won, they wouldn't control the US. They wanted to be seperate. The Union would remain. The West (CA, NV, NM, TX) may very well be lost to Mexico seeing as they were under the control of the South, and the Union would not have enough power to control it. The Union would reach out to the NW states, maybe losing WA, but idunno. The Confederacy would have a few decades of inner fighting, weakening it, and may eventually dissolve anyway. Slavery would last into the early parts of the 20th century, but would've died more slowly and been followed by an ethnic cleansing. The outcome of WW1 would be more disasturous. As the South would be the only one to support Brittain, and the Union's ability to support any European allies (French, etc) would be limited b/c of it's reduced capabilities. Furthermore, the bitterness between the Union and Conf would reduce cooperation.

If MLK Jr was still alive... (diff universe)
He'd be Jesse Jackson. He'd have no holiday in his name, and wouldn't get one later. His political career would fizzle and he'd be the chairman of some civil-rights group which borders on irrelevence. Jesse Jackson would never have run for Presidency, and MAYBE MLK would've in the late 70's, only to be humiliated.

If the Axis won the War...
They'd peter out after dominating most of Eastern Europe. The US would be isolated and subject themselves to trade and recognition, but would not be overtaken. Canada, Mexico, and the US would be a giant refugee camp for most Europeans. Russia would be unconquered, but will have lost many of the territories on the West. China would be divided into separate countries. Eventually, these conquered lands would revolt, in unison or separately, politcally or violently, eventually defeating the oppressive countries' control. This would lead to many smaller countries. The US would still dominate, economically, because they had all the abilities to manufacture after all the capabilities were destroyed in Europe. The cold war would be between the US and Axis. Russia would be a world-player, but more along the lines of a 2nd tier nation.

Do you have any?
(and no, none of that "what if CAT was spelled D-O-G")

[postfeminist]

What if Ronald Reagan had died the day he'd been shot?


What if Bill Clinton had been impeached?


What if Paul Wellstone was still alive and running for president in 2004?

[IPrayForSound]

What if Skee-Lo HAD been a little bit taller?

[tobedawg]

What If JFK was still alive today? What if he had lived out his entire Presidency? Would that mean the Vietnam war would be avoided?

I was thinking about this today... What if John Lennon was still alive today? Would he still be making music? or would he be marching along with the rest of us protesting an unjust war?

What if the hippie revolution went beyond the '60's and their ideals carried into the 80's?

What if there were no yuppies?

What if Al Gore were appointed President? (he was elected by the people, but not appointed by the Supreme Court)

What if Ralph Nader were President?

[matt]

Originally posted by postfeminist
What if Bill Clinton had been impeached?
Bill Clinton was impeached.

www.whitehouse.gov:

"In 1998, as a result of issues surrounding personal indiscretions with a young woman White House intern, Clinton was the second U.S. president to be impeached by the House of Representatives. He was tried in the Senate and found not guilty of the charges brought against him. He apologized to the nation for his actions and continued to have unprecedented popular approval ratings for his job as president."

How about: What would have happened if Bill Clinton was impeached by both the House and the Senate and removed from office?

Possible Answer: Al Gore would have become president, fair and square. He would have been re-elected to his own four-year term and maybe, just maybe, we would not be in the predicament that we are in now. On the other hand, who knows if Gore (or Nader or any other candidate for that matter) would have had/has the cajones to do what Bush has done and put his foot down on Iraq?



What would have happened if the Beatles never broke up?

What would have happened if Curt didn't kill himself?

What would have happened if Abraham Lincoln would not have been assassinated?

[Duemellon]

What if Bill Clinton had been impeached? Clarification for you, he WAS impeached, he just wasn't kicked out.

If he was kicked out, I believe there would've been even more uproar if Bush came into the presidency the same way he did. Al Gore, well, we would've finally found his "Humorous" side.What If JFK was still alive today? What if he had lived out his entire Presidency? Would that mean the Vietnam war would be avoided? i'm curious to think what YOU think would've happened? I doubt the Vietnam war would've been avoided, but our involvement would've been different. It would've been more of an all-or-nothing thing. After the run in with the Nuke scare, I'm sure he'd look for any opportunity to show our resolve against the Reds.

The loss of SKor as a tactical spot for strikes vs. China is a major incentive for keeping it out of NKor's hands. I think we'd've gone in full bore.

If he wasn't killed he'd've been humanized. His popularity was already established so he may have gotten on a coin anyway, but I don't think he'd be as revered.

And Kevin Costner would've had to find another movie to be in where he has the same personality, same line delivery, and look exactly the same as he did in any other movie. (the guy has no talent!)

[Duemellon]

What would have happened if the Beatles never broke up? Well? What if? C'mon, elucidate. Tell me what you think would've come of it?

Personally I couldn't imagine them staying together much longer and still being able to produce creative works. They should've gone solo many times, and reunited afterwards. I think they were bound together so long that they couldn't find commonalities aftrwards. Each one (exception of Ringo) had a stellar career solo (Ringo's wasn't so STELLAR but still something to envy!).What would have happened if Curt didn't kill himself? then I'd start to feel sorry for him as he finds himself married to the walking-dead Love. His band resented him. He fans were getting tired of his self-loathing. He would've had to go solo, or restructure the band into a new group. PErsonally I feel the Foo's are better off without him.What would have happened if Abraham Lincoln would not have been assassinated?After the war was won he lost a lot of popularity and would not have remained president. His abolishinest side would've definitely taken a seat and equal rights for blacks would not make any signifacant leaps (it'd be about the same). AND JFK would not have been assassinated b/c the similarities between the two were so striking that they were a cosmic conspiracy.

I would like to hear more about what you THINK would happen if it was so?
damn simul-post, sorry PostFem, didn't mean to gang up on you like that/w Matt

[matt]

Since you quoted me before I deleted it, I put the Curt question back in.

My answers will come next break, time permitted.

[solomon]

Hi

If the Confederacy won, they wouldn't control the US. They wanted to be seperate. The Union would remain. The West (CA, NV, NM, TX) may very well be lost to Mexico seeing as they were under the control of the South, and the Union would not have enough power to control it. The Union would reach out to the NW states, maybe losing WA, but idunno. The Confederacy would have a few decades of inner fighting, weakening it, and may eventually dissolve anyway. Slavery would last into the early parts of the 20th century, but would've died more slowly and been followed by an ethnic cleansing. The outcome of WW1 would be more disasturous. As the South would be the only one to support Brittain, and the Union's ability to support any European allies (French, etc) would be limited b/c of it's reduced capabilities. Furthermore, the bitterness between the Union and Conf would reduce cooperation

Actually I see it as much different.
First of all you are right, calling it a "civil war" is actually a misnomer because the battle wasn't over the the central government apparatus of the country, which is what "civil war' usually means.. It would more accurately be called the southern war for independence or something along those lines. War Between the States. Furthermore, slavery might have been the straw that broke the camel's back regarding secession, but it was NOT the reason the north stopped them, as Lincoln himself stated.

I think the Confederacy ultimately would have grown to be extremely prosperous, even moreso than the Union, as they were more free-market oriented and less interested in protectionism -tariffs. They surely would have done away with slavery, and I doubt it would end in ethnic cleansing.

I highly doubt you would have the massive US imperialism you see all around the world if the South had won. The two governments would compete with each other, helping keep tax and fiscal policy in check. That would be good.

I also see the result of world war 1 as perhaps being better. World war one was a typical european territorial dispute, albeit on a very large and disastrous scale. It was when the US entered the war that the conflict became ideological, with wilson's desire to "make the world safe for democracy." You can see this by the huge shift in europe after the war from monarchical rule to democratic-republicanism. This quick shift, on a ravaged continent and a people who might not necessarily be ready for it (instability) provided the perfect opportunity for the communists/fascists to grab power. And we all know how well that turned out.

Solomon

[Duemellon]

Interesting points Solomon. Didn't pay attention to the amount of trade the South was interested in.

I'm still waiting for Matt's hypothesis on what would've happened if Lincoln wasn't killed.

What would've happened if Japan didn't strike Pearl Harbor?

What if Japan actually occupied Pearl Harbor?

If Japan didn't attack PH, the US would be drawn into the war eventually. Even though our interests would've been more of a "prevent further aggression" tactic, we would have entered to stop the bleeding. The world would settle for appeasment, Russia would still be a sovereign country (but smaller in size), Italy would be in ruins (b/c Hitler would've invaded them) and Hitler would have lost control in a horrible coup or revolution shortly after ceasing hostilities. The new lands would probably stay under German control and the new leadership would be even more oppressive and unpredictable, causing massive instability and the US would have a cold-war with "Central Europe".

There's other details, but I feel like I"ve said taht before. Any ideas about that?

If PH was occupied the US would have to face the serious possibility that Japan and it's allies could invade the West coast. All energy would be focused on recovering Hawaii. To have occupied HI Japan would have had to cripple and/or destroy 1/3 of the US fleet weakening the US's ability to even wage a reinvasion of HI. The success of that operation would be a major boon to the war cause for the Axis. Although b/c Hitler had no qualms about betraying Russia, or Italy, I just dont think the Japanese thought through the whole "allying with white supremists" idea.

[classicgrrl]

what if we have a what if thread in randomville?

what if I start one?

[postfeminist]

point taken on the bill clinton thing; i should have said what if he had been booted out. i always forget that impeach just means to be put on trial; you have to be convicted or whatever to get booted.

a little off topic, but do you (anyone) think he should have resigned?

hindsight being 20/20, i wish he would have; al couldn't been inaugurated as billy's replacement and the election might have gone a different way... but that's just idealistic me daydreamin on a sunny tuesday afternoon.

[Slar]

What if Duemellon came back to the boards?

[back2vinyl]

Okay, this is a theoretic post just wondering what would've happened if X or Y was different...

these are my own, i'm interested in what anyone may have thought would be a different sequence of events for anything else...

The South Won the Civil War
If the Confederacy won, they wouldn't control the US. They wanted to be seperate. The Union would remain. The West (CA, NV, NM, TX) may very well be lost to Mexico seeing as they were under the control of the South, and the Union would not have enough power to control it. The Union would reach out to the NW states, maybe losing WA, but idunno. The Confederacy would have a few decades of inner fighting, weakening it, and may eventually dissolve anyway. Slavery would last into the early parts of the 20th century, but would've died more slowly and been followed by an ethnic cleansing. The outcome of WW1 would be more disasturous. As the South would be the only one to support Brittain, and the Union's ability to support any European allies (French, etc) would be limited b/c of it's reduced capabilities. Furthermore, the bitterness between the Union and Conf would reduce cooperation.


The bulk of the United States industry and food producing agriculture was located in the northern states, so the Union would have remained a military power post breakup. I can't imagine the north not supporting Britain in WW-I and WW-II since it would have still been in their best interest to do so. The Confederacy had visions of an southern empire stretching down through Mexico and into South America, but I don't know if they could have realized this ambition. Machines were making the slave economy obsolete by the turn of the century, so they would have probably evolved into a South African type apartheid form of government with a large black underclass by the 20th century. The oil boom in Texas in the early part of the century would have provided plenty of capital to replace any lost agricultural revenue from cotton and tobacco. The South would likely be facing economic sanctions and undergoing a painful political transition by now.

[Sushi]

What if more people understood the proper use of the subjunctive case?

[george]

I had a case of subjunctivitis once.



It itched like crazy.

[jcarwash31]

What if more people understood the proper use of the subjunctive case?
http://www.blackdoghosting.com/images/confused-black-dog.jpg

[ICONOCLAST420]

The South Won the Civil War

We would not have NASCAR, pro wrestling, Toby Keith, or Wal-Mart up north.

[jib]

What if more people understood the proper use of the subjunctive case?
I wish it was easier to understand.

[Sushi]

I wish it was easier to understand.
If it were, everyone would sound erudite. :p

[wileE]

If it were, everyone would sound erudite. :p
Is this the What if everybody used big words thread now?

[back2vinyl]

We would not have NASCAR, pro wrestling, Toby Keith, or Wal-Mart up north.

Sounds like the North really lost then.

[Shlep]

Okay, this is a theoretic post just wondering what would've happened if X or Y was different...

The South Won the Civil War...

If the south woulda won we woulda had it made.
I'd probably run for president of the southern states.
The day Elvis passed away would be our national holiday.
If the south woulda won we woulda had it made.
I'd make my surpreme court down in Texas and we wouldn't have no killers getting off free.
If they were proven guilty then they would swing quickly,
instead of writin' books and smilin' on T.V.
We'd all learn cajan cookin' in Luiousiana
and I'd put that capital back in Alabama.
We'd put Florida on the right track, 'cause we'd take Miami back
and throw all them pushers in the slammer.


Oh if the south woulda won we woulda had it made.
I'd probably run for president of the southern states.
The day young Skynyrd died, we'd show our southern pride.
If the south woulda won we woulda had it made.
"Play alittle dixieland boys. Ah yes!"


I'd have all the whiskey made in Tennessee
and all the horses raised in those Kentucky hills.
The national treasury would be in Tupilo, Mississippi
and I'd put Hank Williams picture on one hundred dollar bill.
I'd have all the cars made in the Carolina's
and I'd ban all the ones made in China.
I'd have every girl child sent to Georgia to learn to smile
and talk with that southern accent that drives men wild.
I'd have all the fiddles made in Virginia, 'cause they sure can make 'em sound so fine.
I'm going up on Wolverton Mountain and see ole Cliften Clowers and have a sip of his good ole Arkansas wine.

Hey if the south woulda won we'd a had it made.
I'd probably run for president of the southern states.
When Patsy Cline passed away that would be our national holiday.
If the south woulda won we'd a had it made.
Olay he hee hee . I said if the south wouda won we would a had it made!


Might even be better off!

Wow...imagine an America with no stinkin' Chinese cars in it!

What if the hippie revolution went beyond the '60's and their ideals carried into the 80's?

What if there were no yuppies?

The yuppies of the '80s *were* to a large degree the hippies of the '60s; those of us who came of age in the '80s all remember how we had to spend our high school and early adult years having it rammed down our throats by the Baby Boomers how great the '60s were and how funny it was that they cast aside their hippie boho idealism and embraced everything they claimed to hate 5 minutes after they left college, got confronted by real life, and got a frickin' job.

What would've happened if Japan didn't strike Pearl Harbor?

We probably would have wound up going to war with them anyway. We were already holding embargos against them to deny them raw materials to persuade them to quit tear-assing through the Pacific, necessitating imperial Japans' stepping up of their efforts in order to get the timber, lumber, rubber, precious metals, and other raw materials we were no longer giving them. They still would have wanted the Phillipines, still would have taken over Corregidor, and in coming into direct conflict with our troops forced FDR to declare war. The Japanese likely knew this, since they attacked Pearl Harbor for the direct purpose of scuttling our Pacific Fleet so that it could not challenge them in their theater of operations.

[Duemellon]

What if...

...Gore had won the election, how would that affect the "War on Terror"?


Would 9/11 been prevented or even lessened in it's amount of damage?
Would we be at war today and with who?
Would we have different allies and who would they be?
Would it be a prolonged conflict or limited action?
Would it have support of the majority of US citizens?
Would we still have people driving around with the yellow magnetic ribbons on their car instead of them taking the breif time to actually care and go through a simplistic task of tying an actual fucking ribbon made of actual fucking yellow fabric instead of going the dronish consumerist way which is purchasing a prop token that is so lais-se-faire that it suggests the actual sentiment behind the gesture is one of afterthought & convenience?
Would we currently be engulfed in a constant state of terror by repeated attacks?
Just asking. I have my ideas, which I'll share in a moment or so.

[charniga]

What if...

...Gore had won the election, how would that affect the "War on Terror"?


Would 9/11 been prevented or even lessened in it's amount of damage?
Would we be at war today and with who?
Would we have different allies and who would they be?
Would it be a prolonged conflict or limited action?
Would it have support of the majority of US citizens?
Would we still have people driving around with the yellow magnetic ribbons on their car instead of them taking the breif time to actually care and go through a simplistic task of tying an actual fucking ribbon made of actual fucking yellow fabric instead of going the dronish consumerist way which is purchasing a prop token that is so lais-se-faire that it suggests the actual sentiment behind the gesture is one of afterthought & convenience?
Would we currently be engulfed in a constant state of terror by repeated attacks?
Just asking. I have my ideas, which I'll share in a moment or so.

Would we be able to awake from the coma that his State of the Union address would put us in?

[The Big Crunch]

What if Skee-Lo HAD been a little bit taller?
He would have been a baller.

[markalot]

What if...

...Gore had won the election, how would that affect the "War on Terror"?


Would 9/11 been prevented or even lessened in it's amount of damage?
Would we be at war today and with who?
Would we have different allies and who would they be?
Would it be a prolonged conflict or limited action?
Would it have support of the majority of US citizens?
Would we still have people driving around with the yellow magnetic ribbons on their car instead of them taking the breif time to actually care and go through a simplistic task of tying an actual fucking ribbon made of actual fucking yellow fabric instead of going the dronish consumerist way which is purchasing a prop token that is so lais-se-faire that it suggests the actual sentiment behind the gesture is one of afterthought & convenience?
Would we currently be engulfed in a constant state of terror by repeated attacks?
Just asking. I have my ideas, which I'll share in a moment or so.

9/11 would have happened and Gore would most likely have attacked Afghanistan (I can't spell it). It would have had strong support.

We may have gotten something done in Iraq, probably not a war but at least a better inspection program. This would have had strong support.

The question is how far Gore would have gone after that. Would he decide to attack any rogue nation that harbored terrorists, or would we have forgotten 9/11 like we forgot the first bombings of the WTC under Clinton?

It's easier if people forget and move on.

Gore might also try and tell us we were treating muslims poorly or some such nonsense and he would have done a lot of hand holding and crying because, afterall, he's a big ole boob.

People tied ribbons during gulf war one, but refrigerator magnet technology has improved since then.

[Slar]

What if...

...Gore had won the election, how would that affect the "War on Terror"?You forget already? Gore did win the election.

[back2vinyl]

If Gore had made it into office in 2001.

9-11 would probably still have happened
We would have attacked the Taliban in Afghanistan
We would not have invaded Iraq.

Income taxes would be higher.

The deficit and interest rates would be lower.

He would have won re-election in 2004.

Gore would have tried to institute a carbon tax to combat global warming but I doubt it would have had enough time to work on our oil addiction before the recent run up in oil prices and now he'd be under pressure to reduce it to help keep the price of gas down. Oil would be $60 a barrel since the $10 "oh shit" risk premium in the futures market from unrest in Iraq wouldn't exist.

[Duemellon]

What if...
...we captured Osama Bin Laden in the 1st 2 days of our invasion of Afghanistan?

...Hitler stopped his military conquest pursuits in 1939?

...Elvis had lived?

...I finally played the original Pitfall on Intellivision until the very end?

[back2vinyl]

What if...
...we captured Osama Bin Laden in the 1st 2 days of our invasion of Afghanistan?

...Hitler stopped his military conquest pursuits in 1939?

...Elvis had lived?

...I finally played the original Pitfall on Intellivision until the very end?

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/triumph/triumph-map.gif

Germany doesn't invade Poland in 1939 and does not pursue any further land grabs. Tough question.

Would Stalin sit tight in Russia, or would he have still been interested in expanding into Europe?

I'm going to guess Stalin would have stayed in Russia, but who knows. It would have been interesting having a fascist superpower in close proximity to a communist superpower for the decades post 1939. I wouldn't want to be Poland in that situation. The Cold War might have gotten pretty hot with Britain and the US actually frighting on Germany's side IF nuclear weapons didn't enter the picture, which they might not have (at least not until much later) without WWII and the manhattan project. Or maybe the "Allies" would have just invaded Russia in the 1950's and we'd have had a different version of WWII. Would we have been as scared of the Communists with Hitler running central Europe? I don't know.

Would Japan have attacked Pearl Harbor? Would the war in the Pacific have occurred?

Without war in Europe occupying Russia and the allies, I doubt Japan would have been as aggressive in the Pacific, so I'm going to say no. With the rise of communism in China, who knows. Maybe the US would have gotten in bed with Japan as well as Germany and we'd have China/Russia verses the world.

What about the economic implications? With Europe's industrial capacity intact, would the US have been as dominant economically in the second half of the 20th century?

Would the UN have created Israel? Would the UN even exist? The mid-east would look totally different.

Would Italy have remained under the control of Mussolini?

I give up. The world would be a totally different place.

One thing is fairly certain. There would be no Jews left in central Europe.

[bjk15]

What if...
...we captured Osama Bin Laden in the 1st 2 days of our invasion of Afghanistan?

...Hitler stopped his military conquest pursuits in 1939?

...Elvis had lived?

...I finally played the original Pitfall on Intellivision until the very end?
first things first, is there an end to Pitfall??? a lot of those games ended like at 99 levels but without a definite ending... are you saying that there really is an ending??? that is mindblowing enough!!!


secondly, if we capture bin laden if the 1st 2 days, then first the obvious we wouldn't go into iraq... at least until about this "same point" in the timeline. without the bin laden threat possibility in iraq, then the gov't would be less gov't spending on defense contracts, gw would appear to be more successful in the public's eyes, his admin wouldn't have to cook up the agent leak plot b/c he wouldn't have mistakenly gone into iraq and colin powell would still be with the admin.

basically, the general public's view on the president's administration wouldn't be so negative, translating into an even stronger GOP stranglehold on politics. the middle east would still be the middle east. consumer spending would be up due to the postive vibes, helping the economy and quality of jobs. which would allow american companies to fend off chinese company takeovers at a mind numbing rate... and there would have been an even larger political presence in baseball b/c of steroids b/c the gov't would be a little bored... plus the bengals would have beat the steelers in the playoffs and gone on to win the super bowl (hey, why not, i've gone so far already :) )

[back2vinyl]

What if...

...Elvis had lived?


Elvis files defamation suit against Public Enemy after release of "Fight the Power" in 1989. Lawsuit is dismissed when Elvis breaks down on stand and admits that he is a racist, blaming his drug addiction for altering his state of mind. Elvis and Flava Flav collaborate on joint album called "Fear of a Blue Suede Planet" featuring the hit single "Pollywanna Fried Peanut Butter Sammy".

[Duemellon]

said a lot of stuff...[/i]Wow. Well, focusing on the short-term, I don't think the WW2 would've become as big of a mess. We'd all interfere with the fledgeling superconglomerate power & probably form some coalitions of our own.

We (the group known as the Allies without Russia) would've supported armed resistance in occuppied states. Hitler would not be able to maintain his control over many of the borders & would probably set a lot of them "free" in 20 years or so.

Japan would not have had the opportunity to invade China? Interesting thought indeed but by 1937 they were already in China. Japan began to lose the ground war in China by 1940, so maybe China & Russia would've counterinvaded Japan & it would now be communist?

Hitler admired Mousilini, but their differences in goals & shared megalomania would've led to Hitler doing away with Mousillini (assuming he got him 1st). Hitlter tried to get rid of him in the last few years of the war anyway. With the death of Mousillini & a few small states between Italy & the German expansion, they (the Nazis) would've kept themselves busy for a considerable time dealing with insurgencies & purging.

I just don't believe a fascist government could last long. It requires such intense micromanaging & a huge constant flow of materials, I can't imagine even the best balanced individual pulling it off. I couldn't even fathom a cadre of handpicked skilled historic politcal leaders that could cooperate enough to do it. Such a model may be good for transition, but as a constant state, it just seems impossible.

As for there being "no jews", Idunno, they may have stopped killing them & just continued herding them. Outlawed religions in Communist/Socialist Russia remained in existence even after continued & clandestine persecution.first things first, is there an end to Pitfall??? a lot of those games ended like at 99 levels but without a definite ending... are you saying that there really is an ending??? that is mindblowing enough!!!Yah, there is an ending, but like all good games from back in the day, it simply resets & starts you over.

Is that what you're talking about?

[back2vinyl]

To clarify, I agree Japan would have continued it's war with China, but put off plans of Pacific conquest in the Philippines and other island nations. Since China was in the midst of a Communist revolution, I could have seen the US eventually aiding Japan in the war against China by supplying oil and other materials. Kind of far fetched maybe, but the US seems to jump around a lot depending on where it's interests lie at the moment. We were allies with Iraq up until 1990 (?) and without an attack on Pearl Harbor, I don't believe we would have ever declared war on Japan.

<edited to add>

For some reason, I keep thinking about this. There are so many implications. Point taken: Extremist governments don't seem to last long. Changes in leadership are messy and the resolve to maintain the "pure vision" of the founder weakens with each change. The Soviet empire lasted about 40 years, so if you put the same time frame on Nazi Germany, they'd be falling apart in the 1970's. Hitler was 50 in 1939, so he'd likely be dead by 1959 or so. Stalin died in 1953.

Things we can be sure of:

No D-day - Since France is never occupied, no invasion of Europe necessary.

Neville Chamberlain's "Peace in our Time" speech in defense of the Munich Agreement has him looking pretty smart for promoting appeasement and the League of Nations achieves it's purpose of preventing war for the time being.

[bjk15]

what if radiohead and muse toured together and you could get tix for $20

[seafoamgreen]

what if radiohead and muse toured together and you could get tix for $20

umm. i still wouldn't go. i don't want douchebag cooties. :p

[Shlep]

To clarify, I agree Japan would have continued it's war with China, but put off plans of Pacific conquest in the Philippines and other island nations. Since China was in the midst of a Communist revolution, I could have seen the US eventually aiding Japan in the war against China by supplying oil and other materials. Kind of far fetched maybe, but the US seems to jump around a lot depending on where it's interests lie at the moment. We were allies with Iraq up until 1990 (?) and without an attack on Pearl Harbor, I don't believe we would have ever declared war on Japan.


Hmmm...I'd have to disagree. If we wanted to supply goodies to an aggressive, expansive foreign power in order to crush the onward march of global Marxist/Leninist Communism, then I imagine we'd have given material support to the Third Reich for the Eastern Front offensive, perhaps in exchange for not attacking Great Britain or anyone else in Europe we were simpatico with. Instead, we gave Stalin tanks, planes, a huge fleet of trucks, and industrial machinery to produce more, without which the Soviet Union may very well have been forced to capitulate to Hitler.

[back2vinyl]

Hmmm...I'd have to disagree. If we wanted to supply goodies to an aggressive, expansive foreign power in order to crush the onward march of global Marxist/Leninist Communism, then I imagine we'd have given material support to the Third Reich for the Eastern Front offensive, perhaps in exchange for not attacking Great Britain or anyone else in Europe we were simpatico with. Instead, we gave Stalin tanks, planes, a huge fleet of trucks, and industrial machinery to produce more, without which the Soviet Union may very well have been forced to capitulate to Hitler.

At the time, Nazi Germany was perceived as a much bigger and more immediate threat to the free world than Stalin. If Hitler had stopped expansion before invading Poland this would not have been so. The Soviet threat to American hegemony didn't crystallize until 1948 or so when it became clear they weren't giving back eastern Europe. China became communist in 1949 and we entered the Korean war in 1950 by which point the domino theory had becoming doctrine. I think we'd have viewed Japanese military power as a useful counterbalance to China by then.

Of course, if Germany hadn't gone into Poland, the Soviets probably wouldn't have occupied eastern Europe, so there's a big hole in my theory.

[back2vinyl]

I don't know if I'm allowed to ask the questions here, but....

What if a big meteor hit Saudi Arabia and wiped out all that oil.

[yoshomon]

What if Icarus was right?

[jib]

What if Icarus was right?Icarus Smicarus

[Duemellon]

I don't know if I'm allowed to ask the questions here, but....

What if a big meteor hit Saudi Arabia and wiped out all that oil.Let's go for a meteor that didn't wipe out all the oil, but just ruined the infrastructure so badly it instanty halted production & prevented effective production for 10 years or more.

because... well,... if a meteor hit the Earth big enough to "wipe out" all the oil in a territory that large I think getting around in are car while our planet is covered in a thick sheet of ejecta and the loss of billions of lives or habitable places in the Middle East might take precedence.

If Saudi Arabia was just wrecked (like Ann Coulter's hungy asshole in that fanfic from years ago) the immediate thing would be protection of the nearby facilities in other countries. It'd be worse than the tsunami in the amount of people's lives it destroyed. The finances of the world, just to recover than (sans oil) would create a worldwide depression. Include the oil & economies just go backward. Every country would be effected, even those who have a surplus of oil would find themselves hording but starving as whatever money they made is pretty much worthless outside of their own country.

I'm sure we'd suddenly be buying electric cars & public trans. Those cities with non-combustion-based public trans would be packed with people trying to find a place where the comforts of life are still available.

[Handy Smurf]

Elvis files defamation suit against Public Enemy after release of "Fight the Power" in 1989. Lawsuit is dismissed when Elvis breaks down on stand and admits that he is a racist, blaming his drug addiction for altering his state of mind. Elvis and Flava Flav collaborate on joint album called "Fear of a Blue Suede Planet" featuring the hit single "Pollywanna Fried Peanut Butter Sammy".
I just spit water all over the floor

[Shlep]

I don't know if I'm allowed to ask the questions here, but....

What if a big meteor hit Saudi Arabia and wiped out all that oil.

Well, I imagine we'd continue to get a considerable amount of our oil from Canada and Mexico, who as it is now export more oil to us annually than Saudi Arabia does, and perhaps increase imports from Venzuela and Nigeria from whom export only a bit less than same, while perhaps exploring the possibility of getting more oil from North Sea, Latin American, and African exporters. Assuming we're discounting the possibility of drilling into our own untapped Alaskan reserves.