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c-lando
28 Feb 2003, 09:13 AM
From the AJC (http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/news/0203/28security.html)

New passenger screening system to be tested next month

Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- Civil liberties groups are objecting to a government plan for a new system that would check background information and assign a threat level to everyone who buys a ticket for a commercial flight.

Activists see the potential for unconstitutional invasions of privacy and for database mix-ups that could lead to innocent people being branded security risks.

"This system threatens to create a permanent blacklisted underclass of Americans who cannot travel freely," said Katie Corrigan, a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union.

There also is concern that the government is developing the system without revealing how information will be gathered and how long it will be kept.

The system, ordered by Congress after the Sept. 11 attacks, will gather much more information on passengers than has been done previously. Delta Air Lines will try it out at three undisclosed airports beginning next month, and a comprehensive system could be in place by the end of the year. Officials said Thursday that Hartsfield International would not be one of the test sites.

Transportation officials say a contractor will be picked soon to build the nationwide computer system, which will check such things as credit reports and bank account activity and compare passenger names with those on government watch lists.

Advocates say the system will weed out dangerous people while ensuring law-abiding citizens aren't given unnecessary scrutiny.

Transportation officials say CAPPS II -- Computer Assisted Passenger Prescreening System -- will use databases that already operate in line with privacy laws and won't profile based on race, religion or ethnicity.

"What it does is have very fast access to existing databases so we can quickly validate the person's identity," Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta said.

An oversight panel, which will include a member of the public, is being formed. The Transportation Security Administration will set up procedures to resolve complaints by people who say they don't belong on the watch lists.

Transportation Department spokesman Chet Lunner said a Federal Register notice saying the background information will be stored for 50 years is inaccurate. He said such information will be held only for people deemed security risks.

Jay Stanley, an ACLU spokesman, was skeptical.

"When it says in print, 50 years, we'd like to see something else in print to counter that," he said.

Airlines already do rudimentary checks of passenger information, such as method of payment, address and date the ticket was reserved. The system was developed by Northwest Airlines in the early 1990s to spot possible hijackers.

Unusual behavior, such as purchasing a one-way ticket with cash, is supposed to prompt increased scrutiny at the airport.

Capt. Steve Luckey, an airline pilot who helped develop the system, said CAPPS II will help discern a passenger's possible intentions before he gets on a plane.

Unlike the current system, in which data stays with the airlines' reservation systems, the new setup will be managed by TSA. Only government officials with proper security clearance will be able to use it.

CAPPS II will collect data and rate each passenger's risk potential according to a three-color system: green, yellow, red. When travelers check in, their names will be punched into the system and their boarding passes encrypted with the ranking. TSA screeners will check the passes at checkpoints.

The vast majority of passengers will be rated green and won't be subjected to anything more than normal checks, while yellow will get extra screening and red won't fly.

Paul Hudson, executive director of the Aviation Consumer Action Project, which advocates airline safety and security, is skeptical the system will work.

"The whole track record of profiling is a very poor to mixed one," Hudson said, noting incorrect profiles of the Unabomber and the Washington-area snipers.

Nine to 11 of the 19 hijackers on Sept. 11 were flagged by the original CAPPS, but weren't searched because the system gave a pass to passengers who didn't check their bags, Hudson said. People without checked bags are now included.

BigSugar
28 Feb 2003, 11:33 AM
it's official. i've drawn the line. this is all bullcrap! I'll personally sue the federal govt. on behalf of all citizens if this happens. what a fucking joke.

if they check my credit report, they're going to find i'm late with my student loans...FUCK!!! i can't go to Seattle now to visit my sister! I'M TOTALLY SCREWED!!!!!!

This will not stand legal scrutiny. The Supremes will be weighing in on this one soon i'm sure.....

Duemellon
28 Feb 2003, 12:00 PM
This will not stand legal scrutiny. The Supremes will be weighing in on this one soon i'm sure.....The Patriot Act passed without scrutiny, so it's quite possible this will go on unchecked.

RichmondVA
28 Feb 2003, 02:31 PM
I'm sure the Supreme Court will be ruling on the Patriotic Act soon. I think parts of the 1996 Antiterrorism Act have already been ruled unconstitional on its face by a federal court.

dcXhc
28 Feb 2003, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by BigSugar
The Supremes will be weighing in on this one soon i'm sure.....

After her DWI bust, I don't think Dianna Ross has a leg to stand on......

tobedawg
01 Mar 2003, 05:45 AM
"STOP! In the Name of Civil Liberties!!"

Hey wait!! Actually, this is another step in the wrong direction.

Duemellon
02 Mar 2003, 07:22 PM
Looks to me as though they're going to append together a bunch of information that's already available on people, but in disparate places, and use that as a tool to be able to better screen people, much like our credit reports help banks determine what interest rate to charge us. This doesn't bother you?

Knowing that someone has that much information available to them within a few keystrokes and mouse clicks scares me as a consumer and an individual with my wealth & means in this electronic environment.

You're saying you aren't scared of what the govn't may use it for. I'm not as scared of the govn't doing somethign bad with it as I am scared that someone at the keyboard might do with it.

The information is beniegn until used improperly.

c-lando
09 Sep 2003, 11:00 AM
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1802&ncid=1802&e=2&u=/washpost/20030909/ts_washpost/a45434_2003sep8

Wow. I can't believe this is really going to be implemented!!!

beezlebob
09 Sep 2003, 11:33 AM
This is all a false sense of security.

I saw a thing on TV last night on how easy it is to get a drivers license using a phony birth certificate , a phony SSN card and a phony out of state drivers license, all made on a pc. They had a person go to 10 states with these documents and in every case they were issued a drivers license. Only in a couple of cases did they question the documents and searched the national database on the phony out of state licenses, but the database only holds info on suspended or revoked licenses and since they were fake to begin with they weren't flagged at all

So if you get the fake credentials which is easy, the people that really should be "code red" will never show their real ID!

I imagine any name with a hyphen and three consonants in a row will get flagged as "red"

Smoker29
09 Sep 2003, 05:03 PM
I have to be careful what I say, but here goes...

Flying will never be the same again.

They messed everything up with 9/11. Everything changed that day. Unfortunately, most people have forgotten all about it. I don't blame them for pushing it out of their minds and trying to move on, but we can never forget what happened and the fact that it could very well happen again. Every time somebody complains about security, I want to remind them of the choices that people at the WTC had. Do I burn to death, or jump from one of the tallest buildings in the world. Of course, I can’t say that to a passenger, but that’s what I think. Are people so severely desensitized that the WTC bombing doesn’t bother them anymore? It won’t happen to me… some other poor sucker will get it!

I love my freedom and it's clear that the Patriot Act takes some of my freedoms away, but I'm willing to sacrifice some of my freedoms for a safer America. The Patriot Act is what I like to call a "Necessary Evil."

The flying public isn’t privy to all the intelligence we (TSA) get. There is some real scary stuff going on out there. I know...it'll never happen to you, but just be glad that people are out there dedicating their lives to keep America/The World safe.

As far as Beezlebob's hint at profiling...we don't do it. I know there are a few TSA employees who might try to do it, but if they get caught, that’s a pretty serious offense. If you were allowed to watch our operation for a long time (Which your not) you would clearly see that we don't profile people by the color of their skin. I can't count how many times I've been called a racist or a Nazi and it just amazes me because I know for a fact that we don't profile. We are all aware that terrorists come in all colors.

I agree that there are bugs in the system, but they'll work themselves out. I've watched the TSA grow for the last year and we're leaps and bounds from where we started. It’ll all work out.

Duemellon
09 Sep 2003, 06:06 PM
long winded statement coming up, skip to last sentence if bored or impatient
Unfortunately the call to appreciate the need for added security and a change of expectations of privacy normally focuses on the tail of the snake.

Terrorism doesn't need multi-million planes to be terrifying. If terrorists wanted to kill random US-citizenry they could do it with a box of matches, or a glass bottle of agent orange, or... worse yet...

a sniper rifle.

The need for protection only exists when there is something to protect against. It's simple logic. Unfortunately, just like hackers, thieves, 2-year olds, and born-idiots, there are always new and interesting ways for something bad to happen that only THEY can discover.

We can predict, prevent, and protect only so much, but it's the unpredictable, unpreventable, and unprotectable, that THEY will use next time.

So, instead of throwing our hands up and saying "Well DAMN! I'm gonna die ANYWAY, might as well live it without added security." We should ask: "How do we prevent someone from getting to the point where they feel the need to do such things to make a point?"

Really, these people who do them do it selfishly under the guise of principles. Timothy McVeigh, Columbine Killers (yes, they were terrorists), 9/11, and the DC Sniper, all claimed to have some greater purpose and believed the destruction they caused will create a "new awakening" for the US in it's aftermath.

Instead of us asking "how did this happen" we keep saying "how do we stop those who want to take it that far from TAKING it that far?" No real reflection on how it started.

That's my challenge. Before 9/11 there were billions of people upset with us, US-citizens and outside, who DREAMED of doing something so heinous. They didn't get that done for various reasons, mostly motivation and intensity. Some group comes along so intent on doing it they are unstoppable.

Yes, unstoppable.

Passenger screening, Air Marshalls, Patriot Acts, and shoe-checking, would have meant nothing, they would have gotten it done.

It's kinda like a Bizarro-world American Dream come true...
"You can do anything you want if you put your mind to it, work hard, and never give up."

Solve the threat of terrorism by changing the policies that cause despair and disparity.

earthcapricorn
09 Sep 2003, 07:52 PM
When I was boarding the plane this summer I was wearing a pair of birkenstocks that set off the metal detector. I thought it was pretty humorous, woo! I could be a criminal in disguise! Too bad it's just that my sandals have metal buckles. So they pulled me aside where I had to remove my jacket and shoes. They finally realized it was my shoes and then they took them away to interrogate them. About 30 - 45 minutes later I finally get my sandals back. The poor darlings had been quite traumatized as I almost was myself by barely making my boarding call for New Jersey.

Okay, that was just a silly story. I completely understand the reasoning behind this. Yes! They want to make it a safer, better, America! *Waves flags and would set off fireworks but fears they may catch something on fire and she'd be declared a terrorist.* I always see what America doing as a fight between whether we're going to be 1984 or A Brave New World. Do you want the Ministry Of Love or to start popping the soma pills?

That's fine and all, however, when you get down to it they are taking away freedoms. I LOVE my freedom, I LOVE my freedom so much I'm seriously considering moving to a different country/continent after I get out of college because I'd like to continue to LOVE my freedom and I don't see it happening here for much longer. At least not the kind of freedom I want.

Terrorism is a fact of life and depending on where you're standing they're insane killers or freedom fighters. To the best of my ability I can understand why the terrorists did what they did on 9/11 and to the best of my ability I can understand why someone would agree and support this. The terrorist, to a degree and in a manner, took away my freedom of flying, how is the US government doing anything different? Sure, they're not crashing planes into buildings but they're stripping away some more of my safetys and freedoms.

dcXhc
28 Jan 2004, 11:31 PM
Q: Who was paid $500,000.00 to sell this passenger screening program to the government?




A: Wesley Clark (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58300-2004Jan28.html)

mikeatthemadfro
29 Jan 2004, 09:40 AM
Don't sacrifice or be willing to sacrifice any more rights...for safety.


there ARE plenty of checks in place...instead of passing new laws...enforce the one's that exist...if those in the know at the cia and fbi would have double checked their lists and done a thorough screening job, 911 wouldn't have happened...

it's complacency not a lack of laws that led to 911...

yoshomon
29 Jan 2004, 06:05 PM
Next time I got to the airport I'm so definitely gonna be "code red & black".