Real ID

[the happy prole]

Okay, I've been to three different meetings in the last two weeks where Real ID came up and some prominent policy makers mentioned how the public seemed to be completely unaware of it.

So, yeah... Real ID. Here ya go: http://www.dhs.gov/xprevprot/programs/gc_1200062053842.shtm

Probably the next time you have to renew a driver's license you will get a "Real ID" which means you're gonna need your birth certificate, documentation of legal status, and proof of residency/permanent address. You'll then get your "Real Id," which is your identification card, your driver's license, and your domestic passport. The commissioner of our DMV here estimated that wait lines will be doubled over the next few years because of this legislation.

A little head's up from your friend in government.:p

[rcc94]

I don't see any gray in this picture. Am I overlooking it?
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/realid_extensions520.jpg

This is going to be painful, but probably not until 2012 or so.

[patio]

There have been commercials for this on TV. Now all we need is a standardized card you can store all your health information on.

[markalot]

I don't plan to present any of that when I renew my drivers license. Fuck em.

[classicgrrl]

I don't plan to present any of that when I renew my drivers license. Fuck em.

I don't have documentation of legal status unless a SS card counts.

I don't think I have EVER seen my birth certificate with my own eyes.

and how the hell do you "prove" residancy or perm addy? a Duke Energy statement?

there are a HELL of lot of people that will not be able to renew their driver's license. :mad:

[the happy prole]

States that have agreed to Real Id (41 out of 50) have until 2014 to comply with the law for people under 50 and 2017 for people over 50.

But they can't just suddenly have everyone in 2014 get Real ID's at once. It would be a bureaucratic nightmare. So most of them will phase it in and you will get your Real ID the next time you renew or apply for a driver's license

Just remember that this is supposed to address the problem of illegal immigration and terrorism. The Republicans got it passed by attaching it to as a rider to Tsunami relief and funds for US troops overseas. So don't blame liberals on this one.

[silentpaul]

What happens if you lose your wallet? Zero chance of a dishonest bloke stealing your id?

[dannyboy]

Just more opportunity for identity theft. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HngStyEm4s)

[Marlowe]

i've never really understood what a big deal it is to have a national-id or state id's that provide a consistent framework. we're already government's bitch, and if you don't believe me, stop paying your taxes for 2 years and see what happens. this isn't going to make you any less government's bitch than you already are, but it will help in a few things that are in all of our benefits.

sure, there will be some downsides of this, such as it being more difficult to ignore a parking ticket you got when you're on vacation in oregon, since they can track you down more easily. but, having a comprehensive database readily available of who we are will be helpful in a number of reasonable endeavors of the pole-ice.

as scott mcnealy said, "you have no privacy today. get over it." i'm a libertarian who would love to reduce government by about 80% of current levels, but i don't see this one as that big of a deal.

[markalot]

as scott mcnealy said, "you have no privacy today. get over it." i'm a libertarian who would love to reduce government by about 80% of current levels, but i don't see this one as that big of a deal.

A fine example of ignoring fundamental principles when something new and shiny comes along. ID cards are the pocket sized version of big government, they're an enabler, and it's absurd to think otherwise. I chalk this up to fear.

[Marlowe]

I chalk this up to fear.

please explain what you mean by that. i read your post twice and can't figure out how i'm being fearful in my post.it sounds like you're being fearful, not me.

as for me, i have to use a gov'mint id every day in singapore for mundane tasks like upgrading my cable channels, and guess what? i still do whatever the hell i want and i haven't been visited at night by black-clad agents who are curious about my internet porn habits that have been cross-linked to my purchase of liver 5 times in one month.

[markalot]

please explain what you mean by that. i read your post twice and can't figure out how i'm being fearful in my post.it sounds like you're being fearful, not me.

Fear leads people to make irrational decisions. Someone who claims to be libertarian but doesn't have a problem with a national ID card is doing something irrational.

The national ID card is something that can be used to better support socialized healthcare and lots of other social programs that require the government to track a lot of people consistently. It's an enabler.

And the advantages? I don't see any advantages.

[the happy prole]

I think the fact that Americans want a national healthcare system by a 2-1 margin is the "enabler."

[markalot]

I think the fact that Americans want a national healthcare system by a 2-1 margin is the "enabler."

Healthcare is only the beginning. I'm not against a change in our healthcare system, but it can be done without a card.

[the happy prole]

The Real ID card is only for the purposes of security and keeping out illegal immigrants. There's no plans to use it for anything else. The Federal database for Real ID's is basically no more than a list of all known people by name and whether or not they have a Real ID.

Of course that doesn't mean they can't hook that database into other databases, or that banks won't start using Real ID #'s as identification as well, or that the Feds won't apply the Real ID to other things.

But I have to side with marlowe to some extent on that. The government can already do that with SSN's if they wanted. What's odd is there is all this legislation limiting the collection and sharing of SSN's due to privacy concerns, and then they toss the Real ID out there.

And like you said, there are many possible huge benefits for the Real ID outside of security. For example, I work with higher education. And it would be enormously helpful in constructing higher education policy if we could track people pre and prior to college.

How effective is a college program? I can't say unless I have salary information on graduates. We would also want to know what their K-12 preparation was like, and their family income and history. That way, you know if financial aid programs are working, or if the problem is better addressed at K-12 rather than postsecondary.

The reality I think, is that this will mostly end up being just a colossal waste of money. People will personally resist the use of Real ID's as a national identity and tracking number just like they have SSN's. And they will pass legislation to limit the collection, disclosure, and publication of Real ID's. Which will make it difficult to track people and undo whatever security and social benefits would accrue from having unique ID's for people.

And people who are paranoid about the government will still be paranoid about the government, and people who are paranoid about security will still be paranoid about security. And in many cases, it's the same people.

And we'll be right back where we started. The lack of ID's was never the problem. It's people being unable to balance privacy concerns with government inefficiency. Which understandably is tricky, but still... make up your minds.

So if there's some good news out there, it's that I highly doubt anything is really going to change with Real ID's in terms of Big Brother-ness. It's just going to cost states a lot of money to comply and annoy citizens with long lines.

[PeterABnny]

there are a HELL of lot of people that will not be able to renew their driver's license. :mad:


Going by how they drive might not be a bad idea.

Hey, remember when SS numbers were first issued? Remember how YOU were THE ONLY one who was supposed to have that number, and that they wouldn't be used for any kind of widescale ID purposes? Yeah... :rolleyes:

[Marlowe]

Fear leads people to make irrational decisions. Someone who claims to be libertarian but doesn't have a problem with a national ID card is doing something irrational.

lol, well your your opinion about my rationality will be duly considered. but from where i sit it's less about fear than about a cost-benefit analysis to see if it's worth doing. i haven't done the math on that, so i'll stipulate i don't know the costs. but, there are definite benefits of having a single national database of people that has some sort of bio-identifier. among them being a MORE not less orderly security system at airports. among them being cops being able to better identify who a perp is in a crime, an easier way to do taxes, have free and fair elections with actual live citizens only voting once, and for the gov'mint to dole out social security, etc. there's no freedom a national id-type card would be curtailing beyond the millions of ways our freedoms are already curtailed -- it just has the potential to make things a bit more efficient. (although as said i haven't done any calculations, so it's possible it's overall a less efficient thing)

so yeah maybe we'll end up in tom cruise's world of minority report and you'll have personalized depends undergarment adds beamed to you one day when you walk by because they know who you are. but personally, i think that the 'fear' here is among the wild-eyed who think a card is akin to tatooing a bar-code to the forehead or the first of inevitable steps to creating a borg.

[CarloMarx]

well shit. If getting a real ID is this aggravating, how am I going to get my hands on a fake.

[Homsar]

The Republicans got it passed by attaching it to as a rider to Tsunami relief and funds for US troops overseas. So don't blame liberals on this one.
Why not? They let it pass.

[the happy prole]

They really couldn't do anything about it. The Real ID stuff got added as a rider in conference in both the House and the Senate, so the Democrats never got to vote on it as a separate bill. They never really even got to see it.

They could have tried to vote down Afghanistan/Iraq military support and Tsunami relief, although its questionable whether they would have had the votes. If they'd somehow been successful, everyone would have bitched forever about how they voted down helping troops and natural disaster victims. And then the Republicans just would have gotten the Real ID rider attached to another bill.

It was a battle they couldn't win. If you're asking me whether quick funds to help out the troops and Tsunami victims should take precedence over delaying the inevitable with regards to Real ID, my answer is yes.

It sucks, but that's what happens when one party controls both sides of Congress. People think its about being able to get the majority in a vote, but the real power is in running the committees and controlling the whole legislative process.