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View Full Version : Your Conscious Conscience Compass (read before poll)


Duemellon
29 Jan 2008, 01:04 PM
Yes, you might not only use one as your compass, but do you have one that you typically use more often? Or at least some you don’t use as often? Read below for a description of what the comparisons were intended to mean.

Righteous v. Evil
Morality is defined in an intrinsic way by a set of precise guides with intelligent intent. The impacts, lasting effects, or benefits are outweighed by the governing force of what is correct to do. The judgment of what is righteous or evil is persistent and generally inflexible. The benefits and detriments are not as important as the judgment of what is righteous or evil. There is an expectation the entity which explicitly laid out its judgments will ensure or has setup a method that deviance will be punished (immediately or later). Such reaction can be “cosmic”, spiritual, or tangible (i.e.: police, mob, friends, etc.) and is the final (or only) decision point when other methods have failed to develop an answer.

Good v. Bad
Not as absolute as Righteous v. Evil nor as removed from personal view as Beneficial v. Detrimental. There is still a general moral code that actions may be judged by, but the benefits and detriments may affect the judgment’s outcome. The source of the judgment may have some form of retribution, but more like a guiding hand than reciprocation or absolute prevention. There is a lesser concern about rewards (in this life or other) or personal gain/loss, but the benefits and possible detriments are beyond the physical world or traceable through the physical world.

Beneficial v. Detrimental
There is no additional judgment or impact (retributive, reciprocal, or other intervention, cosmic or tangible) to the action. The decisions made and their results are simply a chain of events stemming from decisions of action and reaction. When it comes down to conflicts with local, regional, or religious laws, the consideration of consequences in the real world outweigh moral judgments issued by those other entities. If you find yourself doing things because the benefit yourself in an effort for an afterlife or gaining favor with some entity (society, god, or group) then it is not the same as this.

Benevolent v. Malevolent
Intent is most important. Intent without (or with lesser) consideration of judgment by any entity nor the actual results. The will and the effort are the points which determine if an action should be judged as being moral or justifiable. If the intent is based on a willingness to appease an authority figure (god, group, society) then it is not the same as this category.

Please, make comments but don't attack or judge others. We're just talking here. So share what you think, maybe comment on other's, but c'mon, it's just a discussion.

Motti
29 Jan 2008, 01:14 PM
I'd say most of the time it's 50-50 for some sort of moral criteria and personal benefit. I've done/not done lots of things I wanted because I thought it was wrong, and I also did/didn't do stuff even while I knew it would be detrimental to others but thought it was the right thing to do.

Oh, wait, does that put me in the first category? I hope not.

markalot
29 Jan 2008, 01:16 PM
I'm leaning toward B vs D mainly because of the non-religion text at the end of the description.

Where's my 16 sided die.

Breeze
29 Jan 2008, 01:22 PM
I chose Beneficial v. Detrimental; the following pretty well sums up why:

"... the consideration of consequences in the real world outweigh (sic) moral judgments"

skidminix
29 Jan 2008, 01:24 PM
I like XTC's motto - Do what you will but harm none. But I don't have time to figure out which category that falls under.

Motti
29 Jan 2008, 01:37 PM
I chose Beneficial v. Detrimental; the following pretty well sums up why:

"... the consideration of consequences in the real world outweigh (sic) moral judgments"

The tricky part is to define what would constitute "moral judgment" vs "consideration of consequences in the real world". Example: if I do not make a move on a buddy's former girlfriend, is it because (i) it's wrong; or (ii) I'd rather he did not do it to me? I have no idea, I just know I wouldn't do it.

Breeze
29 Jan 2008, 02:02 PM
The tricky part is to define what would constitute "moral judgment" vs "consideration of consequences in the real world". Example: if I do not make a move on a buddy's former girlfriend, is it because (i) it's wrong; or (ii) I'd rather he did not do it to me? I have no idea, I just know I wouldn't do it.

Well, the real-world-consequences angle could be that, if my buddy and I are close, good friends, I would not want to injure that friendship by moving on his girl. Or it could be that making said move would cause him to injure me. These outcomes seem likely regardless of current moral views.

miami2112
29 Jan 2008, 02:02 PM
its hard to separate some actions out.

how about a cost benefit analysis?

is the risk worth the reward of said action?
that's what i go by nowdays.

i'm getting old, 'cause the risk isnt usually worth the reward.

oh, i picked b v. d.

Lidja
29 Jan 2008, 02:27 PM
I don't know if I answered this how I wanted...

I like the rule: "Do unto others."

Breeze
29 Jan 2008, 02:33 PM
I like the rule: "Do unto others."

I think that would be using the real-world-consequences model: "I wouldn't want someone to scam me, therefore I shall refrain from scamming others."

Duemellon
29 Jan 2008, 02:35 PM
its hard to separate some actions out.

how about a cost benefit analysis? I'd say "cost/benefit" fits Bene V. Detri. If you're truly considering the risks to yourself & others as well as the rewards for self & others.

I was talking with someone about this & they initially said Right/Evil, but when I asked them about "dire consequences" (ie: you will starve to death, you will go to jail, you daughter will be hurt) then they changed.

So, maybe, some other good questions would be:What would you like to think you are?

What would you like to be?

What do you think you are during casual (non-major) issues?

What about decisions which could have long term or large impacts?

What about those which will definitely have long-term or large impacts?

What about "in the heat of the moment"? (someone pulls a gun, having sex, late for work)

Thinking back, when faced with a "heat of the moment" situ, what were you then?

Duemellon
29 Jan 2008, 08:01 PM
What would you like to think you are?
I like to think I'm mostly a Benef v. Defic person. I think I'm furthest from the Right v. Evil.

What would you like to be?
I think I'm getting there.

What do you think you are during casual (non-major) issues?
I'm probably more Good V. Bad.

What about decisions which could have long term or large impacts?
B v. D., but probably more B v. M. When I don't know I usually go for "intent".

What about those which will definitely have long-term or large impacts?
B v. D.

What about "in the heat of the moment"? (someone pulls a gun, having sex, late for work)
Definitely more B v. M when in immediate crisis mode

Thinking back, when faced with a "heat of the moment" situ, what were you then? Yah, B v. M. When I just can't think of the consequences, since I don't believe in that cosmic reciprocation crap, I just try to do best.

Shlep
29 Jan 2008, 08:05 PM
I like XTC's motto - Do what you will but harm none. But I don't have time to figure out which category that falls under.

I believe that would be "Wicca."

Duemellon
29 Jan 2008, 08:51 PM
I like XTC's motto - Do what you will but harm none. But I don't have time to figure out which category that falls under.I'd say that falls under Good v. Bad or Bene v. Malev. It mostly depends on the balance between doing what you want & what you consider "harm", u'kno?

Like, if your interpretation of doing no harm included things which were illegal, then you're getting away from the Right v. Evil. If your "harm" things are strictly interpreted by yourself then it's more the Bene v. Malev or the Bene v. Detri. If you ever find yourself arguing your moral choices with a "it just is" then you're most likely a Good/Bad or Right/Evil person.

but heck, I could probably be wrong with these definitions too. I'm still trying to figure out what good terminology would be!

SheepNutz
29 Jan 2008, 09:42 PM
The most important decision you can make right now is what you stand for, goodness or badness.

Duemellon
15 Aug 2008, 11:16 AM
Bumping this as the discussion about the morality being a human construct has resurfaced.

the_birds
15 Aug 2008, 11:28 AM
I'd say most of the time it's 50-50 for some sort of moral criteria and personal benefit. I've done/not done lots of things I wanted because I thought it was wrong, and I also did/didn't do stuff even while I knew it would be detrimental to others but thought it was the right thing to do.



I'm real close to agreeing with this.

Duemellon
15 Aug 2008, 11:37 AM
I'm real close to agreeing with this.That sounds like Good v. Bad to me because it includes morality.

Such as: Saying the act of rape is always immoral is different than declaring if rape is always detrimental.

Along with that, if you didn't include morality in your view about rape, it would look more like:Did it cause harm or benefit for those involved (as a whole & as individuals)?

Is the harm or benefit lasting, temporary, or perceived?

Are the benefits & detriments social constructs & reactions or they logical results without any other human interference?At least that how I like to think I think of it.

Chomp Samba
15 Aug 2008, 12:06 PM
I'm Chaotic Neutral.

the_birds
15 Aug 2008, 12:08 PM
That sounds like Good v. Bad to me because it includes morality.

Such as: Saying the act of rape is always immoral is different than declaring if rape is always detrimental.

Along with that, if you didn't include morality in your view about rape, it would look more like:[indent]Did it cause harm or benefit for those involved (as a whole & as individuals)?

Is the harm or benefit lasting, temporary, or perceived?


If you want to be even more confused, see the film

Hable con Ella (Talk to Her) by Almodovar.

Duemellon
15 Aug 2008, 12:39 PM
If you want to be even more confused, see the film

Hable con Ella (Talk to Her) by Almodovar.Seen it. Liked it.