Nas Confirms Album Title will be Epithet

[Hogarth]

By NEKESA MUMBI MOODY, AP Music Writer
7 minutes ago



NEW YORK - To some, it's a hurtful racial epithet. For Nas, it's an album title.

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The rapper told MTV News that he would indeed be naming his new album after the N-word. And he denied earlier reports that the album's title would be spelled "N---a," considered in some circles a less inflammatory epithet. He said the disc is due out Dec. 11.

"(People) shouldn't trip off the (album's) title; the songs are crazier than the title," he said in an interview posted on MTV's Web site.

But some have been outraged by the rapper's choice.

"The title using the 'N' word is morally offensive and socially distasteful. Nas has the right to degrade and denigrate in the name of free speech, but there is no honor in it," the Rev. Jesse Jackson said in a news release. "Radio and television stations have no obligation to play it and self-respecting people have no obligation to buy it. I wish he would use his talents to lift up and inspire, not degrade."

There were reports that his label, Def Jam, had scuttled the title idea. But Nas told MTV that he has had no opposition from the label, and said his intent in naming the album the N-word was to take the sting out of it.

"We're taking power from the word," he added. "No disrespect to none of them who were part of the civil rights movement, but some ... in the streets don't know who (civil rights activist) Medgar Evers was ... they know who Nas is," the rapper said, referring to the civil rights leader slain in the 1960s.

"And to my older people who don't know who Nas is and who don't know what a street disciple is, stay outta this (expletive) conversation. We'll talk to you when we're ready. Right now, we're on a whole new movement. We're taking power from that word."

A representative for Def Jam did not immediately respond to an e-mail seeking comment from The Associated Press sent after business hours.

The use of the N-word is common in rap, though rapper Chamillionaire recently declared he would no longer use that word or curse in his rhymes.



So what's gonna happen here is a bunch of suburban white kids will buy the album, thus legitimizing, in their eyes, the use of the word. When they actually meet a black person, and use the word, what's gonna happen then?

This just makes that idiot Imus look like he had a valid defense.

[Hellburger]

"We're taking power from the word," he added. "No disrespect to none of them who were part of the civil rights movement, but some ... in the streets don't know who (civil rights activist) Medgar Evers was ... they know who Nas is," the rapper said, referring to the civil rights leader slain in the 1960s.

"And to my older people who don't know who Nas is and who don't know what a street disciple is, stay outta this (expletive) conversation. We'll talk to you when we're ready. Right now, we're on a whole new movement. We're taking power from that word."

Sounds like the "older people" are ready, but that Nas won't be ready to talk for a while. Regarding the "whole new movement" that Nas is part of, here's a snippet from wikipedia:

"Street's Disciple features many socio-conscious and political songs including "A Message to the Feds, Sincerely, We the People," "American Way" & "These Are Our Heroes." On the last of those tracks Nas criticized major black people in America such as Kobe Bryant. He even went as far as to call them coons and spooks hence the original title of the track was "Coon's Picnic".

There are also tracks that deal with women (see "Makings Of A Perfect Bitch) and family (Me & You) showing a more personal side of Nas."

Are we to infer that Kobe is "taking power" from those words?

[the happy prole]

I'm offended by the fact that Nas sucks now. It's almost impossible for him to make a really bad album because there's just too much talent there. At the same time, with so much obvious talent it's frustrating that he's half-assing it. He's like the Rilo Kiley of rap.

Anyway, I don't see why every rap artist has to toe the line. I applaud the effort to try to sort of keep things positive, but rap and rock are filled with rebels. We could say that angry industrial music fills suburban white kids with rage and may cause stuff like Columbine, or that emo causes suicides. But Trent Reznor and Fall Out Boy are probably not going to change their games and no one one would be blame them.

If suburban white kids who should know better listen to Nas' album and get the wrong idea, then shouldn't we be pointing the finger at stupid suburban white kids? Imus doesn't have a valid defense. He's just an idiot. Why is it Nas' fault that Imus is a tool?

[Hogarth]

'cause that was Imus' defense, the rappers all use that languange, why can't I? Using the n-word as an album title will legitimize it's use, no matter what spin the artist tries to put on it. Nas looks ignorant of social reality. Why throw matches into the kerosene factory?

Seriously, if he wants to have a discussion of race, he should just call Duemellon and record that. I don't think that's what he's trying to do here.

[BigSugar]

"The title using the 'N' word is morally offensive and socially distasteful. Nas has the right to degrade and denigrate in the name of free speech, but there is no honor in it," the Rev. Jesse Jackson said in a news release. "Radio and television stations have no obligation to play it and self-respecting people have no obligation to buy it. I wish he would use his talents to lift up and inspire, not degrade."

i actually agree with Jesse Jackson. The world may end. DUCK AND COVER!!!!

Nas and Fitty Cent should get all old west and have a shootout at the Homeboy Corral for the title of "worlds biggest moron". *sigh* one step forward.....30 years back.

[Duemellon]

Irony:His ignorant ass wants to take back control of the word to keep other people from using it ignorantly.

[Hogarth]

The problem is you can't take back what you never had. It's not a word that African Americans made up. Quite the opposite.

Doesn't Def Jam have someone like Fran Drescher in Spinal Tap to explain why this is wrong to stupid artists?

"There's such a fine line between clever and stupid".

[DaHood]

This is the piece of shit on whose disc, It Was Written, I counted "n***er" no less than 176 times. Give me a fucking break. Who can stand listening to this garbage?

And this is one of the few times you'll hear me talk about any music being garbage.

[Duemellon]

The problem is you can't take back what you never had. It's not a word that African Americans made up. Quite the opposite.Yah, that was something I had in my original post to, but took it out to focus on how he was trying to "control" it.

Geez, some people are just dumb. Then they just get dumber. Being intentionally divisive because he wants to bring about some newer form of "street enlightenment"? Developing and perpetuating a culture of thuggery doesn't advance anyone's cause except the Man's.

[the happy prole]

Do you guys drop the F-Bomb at work or in formal speaking occasions because you heard it on a Rilo Kiley record?

I can see some justification for wanting to drop the word for the reasons Due mentioned. It's emblematic of certain cultural values and perhaps a thug mentality. More importantly, it's just flat-out offensive to some people. But you know that, I know that, and so does everyone else who isn't an idiot.

Nas using the n-word on a record title or 10,000 times in his lyrics will NEVER be a valid excuse for Imus using it on air, or some suburban white frat dude using it. The blame for that falls squarely on their shoulders, not Nas's.

I do not agree with Nas's stance, but it's his prerogative. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I don't really think he's trying to penetrate the indie market anyway. There's a PMRC vibe here I find a bit disturbing.

[dannyboy]

I would just like to know when the thug angle is going to finally be played out. It's certainly not new, insightful, or even shocking anymore.

[DaHood]

I would just like to know when the thug angle is going to finally be played out. It's certainly not new, insightful, or even shocking anymore.To me it was played out before it was played. It's every bit as sick and repugnant as it ever was. I will never support a ban on any word in any case. I'm sure there are times when any word should be used to make a point. This isn't the time or the place for anyone unless you're Nas' bank account.

[Predot listener]

I would be behind anyone naming an album "Epithet."

[DaHood]

I remember when he was the darling of the Grammys. Those stupid fucks in Hollywood will promote anything regardless of how shitty it is.

(reposted from another thread where I stupidly and mistakenly misposted)

[frizgolf]

I remember when he was the darling of the Grammys. Those stupid fucks in Hollywood will promote anything regardless of how shitty it is.

(reposted from another thread where I stupidly and mistakenly misposted)
I read it and totally took it in the context in which it was meant, not even noticing the cross-thread post. :o :p

[the happy prole]

Look, I know a lot of people are offended by the use of "nigger," and that's cool. You don't have to listen to Nas and you don't have to like Nas. And
it's not like I'm saying "Just don't put it on and shut up." I think people should speak out against what they view as the irresponsible use of an offensive word. All that's fine.

But when you get to the point where you go through the album counting 176 uses of "nigger--" I mean aren't you just kind of looking for ways to piss yourself off? You're not really listening to the music the way it's intended to be heard.

Nas is actually not that thuggish of a rapper, and "Illmatic" and "It Was Written" are generally regarded as classics. His lyrics are a helluva lot more complex than just tossing out N-bombs. And DJ Premier did the beats for "Illmatic" and Poke and Tone did "It was Written." The big hit from It Was Written is "If I Ruled the World" and I'm not sure if there's even an N-Bomb on it. Lauren Hill's on that track as well, and she's generally considered to be a positive role model.

I'm just saying, there's a lot more going on in that album than Nas using racial epithets. There are reasons those are classic albums. And I'm not saying you have to like it or agree they're good. But I'd hope there was some sort of listening and/or critical review beyond counting N-bombs for you to say it's "shit." Offensive, okay. Shit? No.

And at some point I have to question whether this thug/gangsta rap reputation is actually being perpetrated by rappers themselves or instead by a bunch of people just stereotyping the music. Because the thing is, gangsta rap really kind of petered out like five years ago.

[DaHood]

A friend of mine brought Nas' disc in my car and asked to play it. I said okay. I listen to nearly anything. I don't think it was much more than the second song before I was thoroughly replused. I asked to borrow the disc because I wanted to prove a point. The point is that by the time you start repeating such an offensive word so many times, in my mind you do little more than prove that you are doing so simply for the shock value. The problem is that the shock wears thin and the intended meaning evaporates. Hence, it serves no purpose. He could have substituted 'motherfucker' and the end result would have been the same. Worthless.

This album may well be reguarded as a 'classic' but I couldn't get beyond the constant use of a word that became increasingly offensive the more he used it.

[dannyboy]

The point is that by the time you start repeating such an offensive word so many times, in my mind you do little more than prove that you are doing so simply for the shock value. The problem is that the shock wears thin and the meaning evaporates. Hence, it serves no purpose. He could have substituted 'motherfucker' and the end result would have been the same. Worthless.
I agree with this. I personally abstain from using profanity in my everyday vocabulary. I just think it's lazy to cuss. I do sometimes drop in profane word but when I do so, it's to really draw attention to a point. If I were to say "fucking motherfucker" to describe everything from my bad day at work to misplacing my socks, then the real expressive shock value is gone. There are plenty of other adjectives in the English language at your disposal.

[The Sheck]

Nas is actually not that thuggish of a rapper, and "Illmatic" and "It Was Written" are generally regarded as classics. His lyrics are a helluva lot more complex than just tossing out N-bombs. And DJ Premier did the beats for "Illmatic" and Poke and Tone did "It was Written." The big hit from It Was Written is "If I Ruled the World" and I'm not sure if there's even an N-Bomb on it. Lauren Hill's on that track as well, and she's generally considered to be a positive role model.

No, there isn't and thp is spot on about Nas. Word is he wanted to call his last record the controversial word in question, too.

And at some point I have to question whether this thug/gangsta rap reputation is actually being perpetrated by rappers themselves or instead by a bunch of people just stereotyping the music. Because the thing is, gangsta rap really kind of petered out like five years ago.

It did, but gangsta rap is still a very sellable product from the Industry. T.I. had the best-selling album last year not named High School Musical. 50 Cent is regarded as one of the top MCs in the game, still. For every Kanye West out there, there's ten Fiddy's, though. There's that whole teenage white suburbia glamorize the 'urban' lifestyle thing that's been going on since the dawn of gangsta rap with N.W.A. in '88. It's almost racist in which the lives of these rappers are stereotyped as typical of every other black person in the ghetto or poor neighborhoods. You and I know it isn't typical. Johnny Doe living in the 'burbs may not.

Nas is doing this as a publicity stunt, mainly, because like you said, gangster rap stopped being revolutionary probably around 1992. To be honest, I'm surprised that this wasn't tried sooner from a lesser-known artist. Maybe it was, I don't know. But really, the use of the n-word for an album title is about the last boundary rap music has at the moment.

[The Sheck]

I agree with this. I personally abstain from using profanity in my everyday vocabulary. I just think it's lazy to cuss. I do sometimes drop in profane word but when I do so, it's to really draw attention to a point. If I were to say "fucking motherfucker" to describe everything from my bad day at work to misplacing my socks, then the real expressive shock value is gone. There are plenty of other adjectives in the English language at your disposal.

Sure, but saying 'consarn it' or 'Oh, drat' doesn't have that same taboo feeling as swearing. Try ripping off a 'fuck you, motherfucker' in front of your boss one day vs. a 'Aww, shucks' and see if there's a different reaction.

Swearing is a little different argument than using a racially charged word, though. Everyone may swear, but not everyone uses the n-word because of the serious connotations behind it.

[dannyboy]

Sure, but saying 'consarn it' or 'Oh, drat' doesn't have that same taboo feeling as swearing. Try ripping off a 'fuck you, motherfucker' in front of your boss one day vs. a 'Aww, shucks' and see if there's a different reaction.

That's my point. If someone says "fuck you, motherfucker" to everyone, everyday as just a part of their normal vernacular, then what do they say when they're really pissed off?

[The Sheck]

That's my point. If someone says "fuck you, motherfucker" to everyone, everyday as just a part of their normal vernacular, then what do they say when they're really pissed off?

The same. Do I have to link to the many uses of the word 'fuck?' :p

I don't think people jump to use racist terms when 'fuck' fails them, though. At least the majority won't. To me, swearing and racism are two different things.

[dannyboy]

The same. Do I have to link to the many uses of the word 'fuck?' :p

I don't think people jump to use racist terms when 'fuck' fails them, though. At least the majority won't. To me, swearing and racism are two different things.
Right, so when those in the hip hop culture throw around racial and sexist terms on a very casual basis, they lose meaning for that culture. The same as swearing losing meaning when it's overused. The problem is that all of those terms have a MUCH greater meaning to other segments of society.

[the happy prole]

I think Nas is doing it because people started calling him a sell-out, and he thinks using the N-word in his album title will get his cred back. What actually happened was he sold out musically, producing very half-ass slick, commercial tracks. The originality and passion that fired his early work disappeared awhile back, and it has nothing to do with his choice of words.

I agree when you use the word like 500 times in an album the impact is lost. And yet Illmatic is still regarded as a great album. So to me, Nas is missing the point the same way a lot of other people are: it was never about the N-word and that title will not help him sell albums the way it might have in 1990.

And yeah, 50 Cent is still huge but he just got outsold by Kanye West. And while he still talks about guns and killing and all that, he's become dance club fodder. Nowadays the beats are more important than the lyrical content. (which is somewhat unfortunate).

It's like Led Zeppelin singing about elves and wizards, it's all fantasy and it's just stuff that you know, sorta sounds cool. No one ever took it as seriously as white middle America made out, and they take it even less seriously now.

I also feel like a guy breaks into your house, you break out the piece and humiliate them by forcing them to clean it in a bit of poetic justice before you call the cops. I mean, that's a rap song. And yet people are all like "Hells yeah!" on that other thread, so I'm kinda seeing a double standard.

As for the white suburban idiots, unfortunately they're still listening to the same gangsta shit that came out 15 years ago because now it's supposedly old school classic. A friend of mine is a semi-prominent DJ, and I went with him to a gig a few weeks ago that was filled with frat dudes and they kept asking for "Nuts on Ya Chin."

Finally, my friend played it and the crowd went nuts and knew every word. He just looked at me and was like "WTF? This sucked when it came out." And it's true. I mean people liked NWA, but Ice Cube and Dre had talent as evidenced by their solo careers. Eazy-E was always the weak link in that band, he was there for a laugh. He was like the unwitting Flava Flav of the band. If he didn't finance the early albums, I doubt he would have lasted long in NWA.

I don't want to give the impression that I think it's perfectly fine for rappers to talk about guns and drop the N-word. It's not, and I think the criticism of Nas is well-founded. At the same time, there comes a point where you start sounding like Donald Wildmon or some old biddies complaining about Ozzy Osbourne advocating suicide or Elvis Presley shaking his hips too suggestively.

[classicgrrl]

I think he's doing it to sell records and thats about it.

power my ass.
it's money.
and it's old.
and it just makes me more cynical than I was two seconds ago.

[dannyboy]

If he really wants to title his album that and use that term that much, then that is his first amendment right to do so. I just think it's artistically lazy and a lack of respect to the segments of society that it offends without offering up a different point of view. It's just empty shock shlock (not the music, but the use of the term in this instance).

[tobedawg]

Nas and Fitty Cent should get all old west and have a shootout at the Homeboy Corral for the title of "worlds biggest moron". *sigh* one step forward.....30 years back.

HA HA! What Big Sug said..

[ICONOCLAST420]

It's been done.
http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/19800.jpg
http://www.addreviews.com/images/albums/2003-11-16-20-22-29.jpg

[dragonflier]

It's been done.
http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/19800.jpg
http://www.addreviews.com/images/albums/2003-11-16-20-22-29.jpg
When I first read this thread, I also thought of Pryor's album "Supernigger."

[frizgolf]

I think he's doing it to sell records and thats about it.

power my ass.
it's money.
and it's old.
and it just makes me more cynical than I was two seconds ago.
Up until this thread, I had no idea who Nas was, and still kinda wonder, but I suspect the ol' boy had a feeling his relevance was fading and needed to vault the final shock hurdle. After all, hasn't most rock music been about shocking, or at least making you think?
Doesn't make me cynical, though. It's business as usual.

[classicgrrl]

Up until this thread, I had no idea who Nas was, and still kinda wonder, but I suspect the ol' boy had a feeling his relevance was fading and needed to vault the final shock hurdle. After all, hasn't most rock music been about shocking, or at least making you think?
Doesn't make me cynical, though. It's business as usual.

to shocking for money and shocking for brain are two different shocks. and I am cynical about business as usual. in fact I'm cynical about business. VERY cynical.

[DaHood]

There's a big difference between making a statement which has shock value and just plain being gratuitous, ignorant and offensive, acting like nothing is wrong and calling it 'art'. Please... :rolleyes:

[The Sheck]

There's a big difference between making a statement which has shock value and just plain being gratuitous, ignorant and offensive, acting like nothing is wrong and calling it 'art'. Please... :rolleyes:

So you'll excuse Richard Pryor from using the word in an album title, but not Nas? They're both entertainers. They're both trying to make money. Both album titles were used as shock value.

It kind of makes sense that 'taking the power out' of the N-word could be a valid reason to do this, that's all. Though I can understand why everyone's up in arms. That's the strength of the word talking.

[DaHood]

a. Where did I excuse anyone for anything?

b. That album was done thirty years ago. It was a different time.

[Duemellon]

a. Where did I excuse anyone for anything?

b. That album was done thirty years ago. It was a different time.Looking at those 2 statements they appear to affirm you were excusing it. Wanted to point that out.

Also wanted to point out that since Pryor visited Africa he said he's never use "nigger" again.

Go fig.

[Frost]

So wait, let me get this straight. Rappers (and some r&b singers) use "nigga" like 500 times per album, and there's just a general "blah, we don't like rap".

Rappers have tons of song titles with "nigga" in the title. - again "blah, we don't like rap."

Put it into the album title, and now there's an uproar and a thread about it?

Really. Delete this nonsense. By the way, there are two different words. -er, -a. I really don't understand why people can make the most elaborate political arguments and go into the most minute details about history and various theoretical points of view, but for some reason can't get it into their heads that there are two words with different spellings and different meanings.

Delete this thread, really. It's stupid. What next, some rapper calls his album "bitch" and that makes news? :P

[Frost]

It's just an elaborate process of building morale (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071017/wl_uk_afp/britainemploymentlanguageoffbeat) ;)

[markalot]

Never get in an argument with a black person. :)

Creating racists, one post at a time.

[Duemellon]

Really. Delete this nonsense. By the way, there are two different words. -er, -a.WTF? That's a mighty bit ignorant right there....for some reason can't get it into their heads that there are two words with different spellings and different meanings.The word "see" has at least 2 different meanings. One is the act of viewing the other is a religious organization. There's even a hominymn, "sea" which is different than both of those. Together they can make this sentence & it all makes sense:The person crossed the see to get to the Vatican's See to see it.If the word "Nigger" & "Nigga" were so distinct wouldn't we be unable to interchange them in the same sentence & still make sense?I sea a nigger who sailed the see.

I see a nigga who sailed the sea.Strange enough, "Nigga" & "Nigger" are interchangable. They don't alter the meaning of the sentence when read aloud. Using one in the sentence isn't more correct than the other in definition either. It would seem that these two words are indeed equivalent.

As for Co-opting It's "Power" Through Usage...
Try it with another word in the exact same fashion. Take, idunno, let's take "racist" and also "childfucker" & change the spelling. From now on you can refer to me as raysist & I'll call you a childfukka. Sound good? We'll see each other walking down the street you'll say "waddup raysist!" I'll say "How's it going childfukka!"

We'll start a movement. Make a video, call it the Raysist Childfukka band & have it say "Fuk the Childs like Raysist Do". It'll be a hit. Me & you... numba 1 stars. I can see it now.

But I insist, you be called a childfukka. I'll stick with being a raysist.

?p
Of course I'm stunned at the post you just made. I guess it could've been you being over-sarcastic. I just don't know anymore.

[the happy prole]

This is gonna make me even more unpopular around here-- and I'm not saying this applies to anyone on the boards directly-- but getting mad over "nigger" is like buying a yellow ribbon magnet for your car. It's the very least you can do; so you do it and feel good about yourself.

A group of white people all up in arms over the fact that someone used a word offensive to blacks in an album title? Please. If it were women, or a Native American tribe and this involved a sports team, half the same people here would be railing against PC-Nazism. It's just a word, blahblahblahblah.

When they had the "Funeral for the N-Word" nearly everyone laughed and said it was a cockamamie idea. Now suddenly, everyone's piling on Nas for using it. If the word is that bad, shouldn't people have shown a bit more support?

It makes it very easy to feel good about yourself. Because real racism is complex, and doing something about it requires considerable thought and effort. But this is easy! If someone says "Nigger" that's offensive and they are bad. No thought required.

And of course it's relatively easy not to use the word yourself. You never use nigger and you hate when other people do, so you're a good guy. Mission accomplished.

It's even better when a black guy does it. Because no one likes rap, and no one is very comfortable with hip-hop culture that rejects white middle-class values. Of course you can't SAY that, because then you'd look closed-minded. But now that they made A BAD and said "nigger," you can finally get mad about it.

It's not a bad thing to be mad over the use of the term, but the degree of anger here is all out-of-proportion.

[Frost]

Yeah, exactly. Thanks thp.

Due, you know I love you.

Your & You're - I've seen lots of people use them interchangably. Your crazy. You're crazy. Thus, they are the same word. I know they're supposed to have different meanings, but hey, all they are is spelled differently, when you look at it. Just an e and another character. Just like nigga/nigger.

they're & their - I've seen tons of people use these words interchangably, thus they are the same word. only a slight difference.

So now, I agree with you.


Okay, so I don't, but that's about the end of my time here. I've gotten so much accomplished since I stopped spending untold amounts of my time recycling the same ridiculous patterns that end in nothing. ever. getting. solved.

[silentpaul]

If the word "Nigger" & "Nigga" were so distinct wouldn't we be unable to interchange them in the same sentence & still make sense?I sea a nigger who sailed the see.

I see a nigga who sailed the sea.Strange enough, "Nigga" & "Nigger" are interchangable.
For what it's worth, the distinction is even more useless (less useful?) in Boston, as we drop the r's on the ends of words. There is no discernible difference in pronunciation.

[Duemellon]

Your & You're - I've seen lots of people use them interchangably. Your crazy. You're crazy. Thus, they are the same word. I know they're supposed to have different meanings, but hey, all they are is spelled differently, when you look at it. Just an e and another character. Just like nigga/nigger.

they're & their - I've seen tons of people use these words interchangably, thus they are the same word. only a slight difference.

So now, I agree with you.

Okay, so I don't,...Using this example it's exactly what I'm saying.

Saying "[ur] crazy" or "[ur] craziness" is a perfect example of how non-interchangable they are. Whether you put in "Your" or "You're" in either of the sentence when spelling it out just determines if you spelled it right. When speaking, if you, in your head, spoke the word as if it was spelled "Your crazy", the audience isn't going to bother to make that distinction. They'll hear "You're crazy' because of context. Heck, you could've been thinking it spelled "ur", but it doesn't mean that it suddenly changed the meaning of the word.

"[ur] crazy" will always, really, ever mean the contraction of "You are". It will never EVER mean "the 'crazy' of you".

And I'm really tired of those people insisting they're "Taking control" of the word. The word was forged in a derrogatory light. It has become immutable in that origin. It is not "gay" which went from one to the other & then back to neutral (for most people), it is incorruptable.

Furthermore, furthermore they're using it to replace the string of characters: "Young African American urban male". They're trying to say the word "Nigger" which we all know can be exploded to mean: "Ignorant, primative, devient, person only worth of a life as a slave". How the FUCK can you tie those two extrapolations together & say you're not doing a disservice?

And tHP, you know I'm one of those who complained about the the usage of specific team mascots & other stuff. However, I am also acknowledging I have never said the word should be legally banned. Nor am I saying he shouldn't be allowed to make an album named it. I just find it amazing that people still believe it's some effort of ownership & that it would, at some point, bare fruit. WTF? How's about they try an experiment 1st & make everyone happy? Find a way to permanently co-opt the word "dumbass" to mean someone who is a good CEO to the point where it's business appropriate to call your boss a dumbass.

If they can do that I'll be a believer.

[dannyboy]

A group of white people all up in arms over the fact that someone used a word offensive to blacks in an album title? Please. If it were women, or a Native American tribe and this involved a sports team, half the same people here would be railing against PC-Nazism. It's just a word, blahblahblahblah.


I'll be very happy the day the Washington Redskins change their name. To me, that's every bit as offensive as "nigger".

[the happy prole]

And tHP, you know I'm one of those who complained about the the usage of specific team mascots & other stuff.

Yes, and I think it was only you and Marlowe in a rare moment of agreement who were like "Hey, I support the funeral on the N-word." So I'm not talking about you. I'm actually not talking about anyone on the boards, really. It's hard to say that being offended by the n-word and not wanting to see it used is wrong. Just like it's hard to say supporting the troops is wrong.

I'm talking more about what you see in Whitlock's column, which I agree with you on. When Nas uses the N-word, he's representing "hip-hop culture" and athletes who listen to rap or do certain things get connected as well... and it's sort of shaky ground where you're really getting close to stereotyping.

Attacking Nas for some people, is simply another variant of pulling the old "But some of my friends are black" trick. Only it's even easier, because you don't even need a black friend.

To put it in your terms, is there an element here where race is not strictly necessary but is being brought into the conversation? Not for any one person but just on the macro, general level-- Is Nas saying "nigger" being treated the same way as someone else using racially offensive language in a similar situation?

Fox News is on this like stink on shit, and no doubt will soon have some talking heads condemning Nas when typically they are not the most sensitive station out there when it comes to race. It's an easy target for them, because Nas is unfortunately acting out the stereotypes of black people. People are using the situation not to fix racism, but instead to verify their own biased beliefs.

To put it bluntly, there is a portion of the American populace that essentially saying "Only niggers are stupid enough to think the word 'nigger' is cool." So while I completely understand what you, Dannyboy, and Dahood are saying and I don't doubt the sincerity, I just can't quite get on board with the general public outrage over this.

[classicgrrl]

I think he's doing it to sell records and thats about it.

power my ass.
it's money.
and it's old.
and it just makes me more cynical than I was two seconds ago.

if this were actually about taking "power" out of or from the word that is one thing. but he's only doing it to move product.

and thats what makes it wrong - and disgusting. there is no arguement for me. the real problem is not the word but why he is using it.

which is the historic problem with language. not the words but how they are used.

[dannyboy]

if this were actually about taking "power" out of or from the word that is one thing. but he's only doing it to move product.

I agree. Even IF it were nothing more than trying to take power out of the word, until the power is removed from all facets of society, it is still a weapon. It's like taking guns away from law-abiding citizens but allowing criminals to run rampant on the streets with them.

[the happy prole]

No, see that's a ridiculous analogy. Nas has probably been called "nigger" and is making music for those who have heard it and used it like a thousand times more than the average person. If there were an NRA training program for "Nigger," Nas has all the credentials he needs.

If anything, what you're saying is akin to a total gun ban. The word is just too inherently dangerous to allow anyone to have it.

[dannyboy]

No, see that's a ridiculous analogy. Nas has probably been called "nigger" and is making music for those who have heard it and used it like a thousand times more than the average person. If there were an NRA training program for "Nigger," Nas has all the credentials he needs.

If anything, what you're saying is akin to a total gun ban. The word is just too inherently dangerous to allow anyone to have it.
Nas is basically saying that it's just a word to him with no meaning. He's trying to disarm it for his culture and his generation. But for a whole other generation, it still means a lot. Whether firing it off against others, to put them down in an act of trying to gain power or being on the receiving end of it and hurt by it. Nas is wielding it, but claiming it's unloaded, while others see it being wielded and either run in fear or want to wield it too. For that segment of society, if they try to wield it they are considered hateful. Until and if we ever reach a point where that term is completely unloaded for all, then yes, out of respect for all, it should not be used. I wouldn't walk in a public arena waving a gun around and causing terror in others only to say, "It's OK folks! Don't worry, it's not loaded." Society wouldn't accept that act either.

[Frost]

this really is the dumbest outrage thread ever. I'm not a big nas fan, but if this angers you, you really haven't been paying attention to rap at all. The more outrage you show, the more out of touch you reveal yourself to be. It's like some random rapper telling you that you can't do something at your job. You'd be like "excuse me? you don't know anything about this. You can't tell me that I can't use this terminology in this way - this is the way everybody in my field uses this terminology, and we've standardized it and the vast majority of us don't have a problem with it". And here they come whining at you because you filled out your tax forms a certain way that they don't agree with.

Man please. Feign some mispaced, out-of-touch outrage somewhere else. Like at the bengals! lol I could spit rhymes at you for an hour and most of yall wouldn't know the artist, the album or even the gender of the person rhyming, because you haven't been paying attention the last 5 years.

Thp, however, would probably freestyle over the beat and remix the lyrics ;)

[dannyboy]

I'm not outraged, I'm just expressing what I think on the matter. I have a lot in depth personal opinions on many different subjects. Opinions are like assholes though, because everyone has one. It's not like what I say on an internet message board is going to make Nas not title his album that or make people not buy it. I'll still get up in the morning and go about my day like I always do. But I also don't go through life with blinders on either. If everyone sleepwalks though life, then where is progress made?

[markalot]

Man please. Feign some mispaced, out-of-touch outrage somewhere else.

OMG I'm so mad at you. I can't ... how could you ... don't you u... bah!

:D

[Frost]

hahaha - mispaced. Nice!

[classicgrrl]

this really is the dumbest outrage thread ever. I'm not a big nas fan, but if this angers you, you really haven't been paying attention to rap at all. The more outrage you show, the more out of touch you reveal yourself to be. It's like some random rapper telling you that you can't do something at your job. You'd be like "excuse me? you don't know anything about this. You can't tell me that I can't use this terminology in this way - this is the way everybody in my field uses this terminology, and we've standardized it and the vast majority of us don't have a problem with it". And here they come whining at you because you filled out your tax forms a certain way that they don't agree with.

Man please. Feign some mispaced, out-of-touch outrage somewhere else. Like at the bengals! lol I could spit rhymes at you for an hour and most of yall wouldn't know the artist, the album or even the gender of the person rhyming, because you haven't been paying attention the last 5 years.

Thp, however, would probably freestyle over the beat and remix the lyrics ;)

I quite listening to rap because it isn't music. it's too damn boring and too damn repetative. if you have some that isn't please send me some. and I detest anything even remotely to "gangsta". that crap is just plain stupid.

[DaHood]

I quite listening to rap because it isn't music. it's too damn boring and too damn repetative. if you have some that isn't please send me some. and I detest anything even remotely to "gangsta". that crap is just plain stupid.A lot of the 'classic' rap is good stuff. I can't speak on any of the 'gangsta rap' because I like very little of it.

[frizgolf]

I quite listening to rap because it isn't music. it's too damn boring and too damn repetative. if you have some that isn't please send me some. and I detest anything even remotely to "gangsta". that crap is just plain stupid.
But you have to listen. Go out and get every album from the last five years, listen intently for nuance and meaning in every curse, and then you'll be entitled to post in this thread and have an opinion on this (non) matter.

[Duemellon]

this really is the dumbest outrage thread ever.The people who are "outraged" aren't even posting anymore. No one is talking about going down to a Nas news conference & "smacking him in the mouth". In fact, most of those talking aren't even saying he's an evil man for doing so. I think you're exaggerating how outraged those of us still talking truly are.I'm not a big nas fan, but if this angers you, you really haven't been paying attention to rap at all. ...You can't tell me that I can't use this terminology in this way - this is the way everybody in my field uses this terminology, and we've standardized itUm, I am aware of it. That's one of the reasons I condemn all uses of it in any song unless it's being used in a responsible way.

Every tmie they use it in this "standardized" way it is still being used in the original way. They don't get it so they keep using it. It's a sign of ignorance over what they're doing. It doesn't show they've "changed the meaning", they actually kept the meaning but are claiming they're the only ones who can use it. WTF?

If they were going to change the meaning it'd be sometghin you couldnt' swap out with the archiac one. Nigger wouldn't be a descriptive noun, it'd be a verb, adjective, present participle, or something else. but you take Nigger out & put in Nigga & lo' & behold it means the same thing.

Really, think abuot the word proposed, "Childfukka". What if they were to take on that word & say it meant someone who just "fucked", but not necessarily children? Kind've like "muthafucka", right? Then let them manhandle that word for a generation. Seems pretty stupid eh? They're messing with a terminology the way kids handle being called names by their parents & older siblings.They start calling themselves that term & make it seem like its innocuous[/i].Yet any pediatric psychologist will tell you, if your child starts calling themselves "dumbass bastard spawn" from the time they're born, they will have self-esteem issues & it is harmful, even though it was a self-defense mechanism they came up with.

They're "niggers" & will always be "niggers" even when/if no one ever says it to them. They're doing the damage themselves now. Who needs The Man? He's up in their heads deep enough he can relax & go on to other things.

[BigSugar]

yawlz is jus trippin'......all yawlz my nigga's......peace out.

BigSug Knight (or by my Indian name, M. Knight Shamalamadingdong)

[Duemellon]

yawlz is jus trippin'......all yawlz my nigga's......peace out.

BigSug Knight (or by my Indian name, M. Knight Shamalamadingdong)As has now been demonstrated, they open the playing field for ignorant people to do ignorant things with it.

[BigSugar]

As has now been demonstrated, they open the playing field for ignorant people to do ignorant things with it.

Glad the irony wasn't lost on you, my epithet.

xoxo
Whitey

[Hogarth]

As has now been demonstrated, they open the playing field for ignorant people to do ignorant things with it.

Which was my point when I started this thread.

Sure these idiots at Def Jam can put out this album, but shame on them. This may be clever marketing, but poor art. It is not new, enlightening, or inspiring, but tired, low-brow crap.

[Frost]

But you have to listen. Go out and get every album from the last five years, listen intently for nuance and meaning in every curse, and then you'll be entitled to post in this thread and have an opinion on this (non) matter.

LOL! That's right, damnit! :p

[Frost]

Which was my point when I started this thread.

Sure these idiots at Def Jam can put out this album, but shame on them. This may be clever marketing, but poor art. It is not new, enlightening, or inspiring, but tired, low-brow crap.

Open what playing field? (this is to you and due). Using nigga? Right - because there was a moratorium on it by most rap artists until nas took this drastic step.

And the title may suck, but the rhymes might be ill as fuck. Nobody has heard one word of them, so nobody knows if it's classic or trash.

Take 36 chambers and change it into 36 niggas. Is it now trash instead of classic? Course not.


You don't have to listen to every single cd from the last 5 years that is hip hop or rap. But it's like walking into Google and proclaiming you know better than they do what to do with a search algorithm, as you admit you've basically missed the last 5 years of the internet and don't know rss from tags from a hole in the ground. That's all I'm saying. Your opinion is duly noted, but it's also literally the definition of ignorant.

To go back to this retreaded retread of a retread, if I started telling Purple Oc about Scuba Diving, she'd school the shit out of me. Why? Because I haven't been diving in YEARS. I don't know what new devices and techniques there are, new equipment, changes in regulations - nothing.

This concept of informed responses has been a problematic concept on this board for years.

[markalot]

Look, I have removed the n-word from my vocabulary because I felt like it was the right thing to do. It doesn't mean I'm not racist, it doesn't mean I have any fucking clue what it's like to be black. I know people hate the word, I know the word has awful connotations, so I removed it.

What I do know is how other white people respond to blacks using the n word. They think it makes it ok. The word is making a comeback in casual white conversation. That's not a good thing.

Racism isn't rational, isn't logical. Handing ammunition to something that's irrational will only perpetuate the problem. When black people start calling each other by that word it makes it hard for me to ask people not to use it around me. "Why not, they use it." Is that such a big surprise?

[classicgrrl]

are we there yet?

[Duemellon]

Open what playing field? (this is to you and due). Using nigga? Right - because there was a moratorium on it by most rap artists until nas took this drastic step.Insulated White kid hears the word Nigger/a used in old movies or reads it in Huck Finn. When he comes across the word his parents & teachers all point out that the word was commonly used instead of calling Black people African American or Black. They will (should) continue on saying it was a negative word in it's inception & was never used prior to that in an innocuous or neutral way.

This kid realizes that calling a woman a harlot, an old man a geezer, or their father a Nazi is bad. They can assimilate this information.

Lo' & behold, along comes <insert ignorant individual> using the word nigger/a as if it was "the". This kid who had said in his mind this was a bad, horrid, word, worse than "hell, shit, damn, go fuck your mom" now hears it being used by the verysame people it was meant to offend. Obviously his teachers & parents are "out of touch" so he starts using it.

Why did I have to go through all this explanation to show this? I know you know this.And the title may suck, but the rhymes might be ill as fuck. Nobody has heard one word of them, so nobody knows if it's classic or trash.I'll tell you: It's trash. I don't give a fuck if he could've revolutionized rap or the other 90% of the words he says could inspire others. At some point you stop digging through the heap of shit for the dollar bill under the pile.You don't have to listen to every single cd from the last 5 years that is hip hop or rap.The day credentials mean anything in discussions will be the day people start getting titles without knowledge. Look man, we have a premier scientist in geneology going about supporting racist ideas of superiority. He's qualified, so that means you're inheiretly dumber than any of your White counterparts.

So there, he's qualified, accredited, & he must be right.

[BigSugar]

my problem with rap and using the n-word by black rap artists is that it promotes too much black on black rhyme.......won't someone please think of the children!!?? :p

[Kruschev]

I worked with a couple black dudes and we've become pretty chummy, talking music and what not. I hesitate to call them buddies since I'd never consider having a black kid as my friend. :p One dude in particular, we'd get into some pretty good conversations about current events and of course music. He'd always say, "what's up nigga?" I reply, "hey what's up dude." We had a talk about why I wouldn't call him nigga, and how he had absolutely no problem with it. I really don't understand the whole "ownership" thing of the word y'all is talking about. I really don't think this is an ownership of the word. I think;

From what I gather, it's Nas' attempt to take the original meaning out of the word and to transcend it altogether, which is what my buddy was talking about. Though I doubt Nas wants to hear white kids saying it. So my argument probably doesn't hold water, because that would Nas even more of a sell out than he apparently has already become. But let's say this is Nas' intention, to make the word nigga, more like friend, dude, compatriot.

[the happy prole]

What I do know is how other white people respond to blacks using the n word. They think it makes it ok. The word is making a comeback in casual white conversation.

I'm not doubting you personally, but I have to wonder if this is really a widespread thing.

I mean, there are people here who say they've never heard anything by Nas. He's a multi-platinum artist, he's been nominated for several Grammies, he's had number one singles and albums, and Illmatic is widely regarded by critics as among the best rap albums ever.

So if you've managed to avoid Nas this far, I have to think that you are so far removed from hip-hop culture that you just aren't hearing much hip-hop slang. Maybe a "bling" here or there, that's about it.

I can say that I've personally not heard "nigger" dropped into "casual white conversation" with my white acquaintances except discussing the term abstractly. They don't even like to quote lyrics. And most of them know who Nas is.

If most of us here-- including myself-- went up to some hip-hop looking dude and tried to drop a bunch of hip-hop terms, I'm pretty sure we'd get our asses kicked without ever having to drop the N-word.

For that matter, it's not like a black dude can just randomly go up to another black dude and call him "nigger," either. It's all about context for both the speaker and the listener. Just like you might be able to say "What's up, motherfucker?" to your friends, but say it slightly differently in a bar to a stranger and you're asking for an ass-kicking.

Words have different meanings in different contexts and different cultures. The predominant viewpoint here seems to be that hip-hop culture is completely worthless crap. Therfore, they need to use words the same way we do because we're right. Who exactly is being ignorant here?

We don't watch the Sopranos and start acting like Tony Soprano. Why aren't people complaining about all the gratuitous graphic violence and sex in that series?

[Duemellon]

From what I gather, it's Nas' attempt to take the original meaning out of the word and to transcend it altogether,...It's an attempt. It's an ill concieved plan with no support from those who actually have the power in the word.

All it does is actually loosen other's lips.But let's say this is Nas' intention, to make the word nigga, more like friend, dude, compatriot.That'd be like taking the phrase "Ignorant, subservient, inferior, devient" & making it to mean "friend, dude, compatriot". Why? B/c that's what it means.

Try doing the same with Childfukka. Imagine a world where people greeted each other with that nickname as a sign of affection, friendliness, & such. Does it change the word? About as much as Randal was able to "own" Porch Monkey at Mooby's.

[silentpaul]

Try doing the same with Childfukka. Imagine a world where people greeted each other with that nickname as a sign of affection, friendliness, & such. Does it change the word? About as much as Randal was able to "own" Porch Monkey at Mooby's.
And yet we don't take the word "motherfucker" literally.

Just sayin'.

[Duemellon]

For that matter, it's not like a black dude can just randomly go up to another black dude and call him "nigger," either.Ain't that a trip?

Trying to defuse power yet retain power? Fucking contradictory.

[Duemellon]

And yet we don't take the word "motherfucker" literally.

Just sayin'.Calling someone "babykiller" is a preposturous exclamation except in very limited context (Vietname soldiers & abortion isuses). Calling someone a "mother fucker" is also like that (except in VERY limited contexts). But calling someone a child fucker is an accusation, not a joke (except in very limited contexts).

Calling someone a nigger is an accusation. It means that person is a nigger, u'kno?

[BigSugar]

Calling someone "babykiller" is a preposturous exclamation except in very limited context (Vietname soldiers & abortion isuses). Calling someone a "mother fucker" is also like that (except in VERY limited contexts). But calling someone a child fucker is an accusation, not a joke (except in very limited contexts).

Calling someone a nigger is an accusation. It means that person is a nigger, u'kno?

"Excuse me!! EXCUSE ME!! I specifically heard him ask for two 'niggers'. Well, to tell a family secret, my grandmother was Dutch."

i was pissed at Nas and this whole argument until i remembered that Richard Pryor and Cleavon Little and a host of other brilliant actors lampooned the hell out of this word and destroyed all of it's power in Blazing Saddles. So, this whole thread and argument is moot. :)

[dannyboy]

i was pissed at Nas and this whole argument until i remembered that Richard Pryor and Cleavon Little and a host of other brilliant actors lampooned the hell out of this word and destroyed all of it's power in Blazing Saddles. So, this whole thread and argument is moot. :)
Yeah I forgot that the word has been completely impotent for the past 33 years since the release of that movie.

[classicgrrl]

enough of all this yappin.

how many of you weasles are going to buy the record?

[Buzzstein]

I'm not buying the album. I don't like much rap anyway.

As for Nas's use of the N-word...*shrug*

[the happy prole]

Trying to defuse power yet retain power? Fucking contradictory.

The word has contradictory meanings, but that's not Nas' fault. You'll have to wait for the album. If he's at once dissing other rappers by calling them niggers and jovially sending shout outs to his Def Jam niggers, then yeah, he's being contradictory.

In fact, the black dude calling the other black dude "nigger" is precisely the target Nas can reach. Next time a black dude tries to start a fight with "Yo, nigger" the other guy will be like "meh... I've been called worse, hear that one all the time." The racist white dudes who use it probably aren't going to buy the album.

Language is always evolving. So yeah, you can absolutely change the impact and meanings of existing sounds. I don't see how that's even in question.

I don't see what good it does, because some other word will just take on the old meaning. But then, I'm not a big believer in the "words shape attitudes" theory like you are.

[the happy prole]

enough of all this yappin.

how many of you weasles are going to buy the record?

I might. I love Nas' earlier stuff, not so much his recent work. The title isn't going to impact my decision.

[Frost]

Buy? No. Listen to? Probably. But that goes for about 99.99% of albums these days.

I still don't get why this is a discussion. If you're a fan of rap, you've heard this word four thousand times a second. Oh a lot of rappers don't even use it. But the ones that do, make it average out to that much, lol. If you're not, let me tell you, it's uttered four thousand times a second. Rappers even have names just to rhyme with it! Rah Digga. JT the Bigga Figga [where is he now anyway?]. And of course, Jay-Z has Jigga.

The time for outrage was about 8,424 albums ago.

Hold on, let me start a thread to be outraged that some rock song has the word "bitch" in it. NOOO GOOOOD NOOOO!!!! NOT THAAAAT!!! :p :p

[frizgolf]

The time for outrage was about 8,424 albums ago.

So 8,425 finally caught everyone's attention. Is it good that rap has finally made the news in mainstream circles or not?

[classicgrrl]

So 8,425 finally caught everyone's attention. Is it good that rap has finally made the news in mainstream circles or not?


vanilla ice should never have been.




but do you know all the words to Double Dutch Bus? :D

[DaHood]

but do you know all the words to Double Dutch Bus? :DOMG.... by the honor system I'll go by memory

(disregarding intro)
It's the double dutch bus coming down the street
moving pretty fast you'd better shuffle your feet
get on the bus don't forget your fare
and tell them that you're going to a double dutch affair

...and that's all I know, but thanks for a good memory. :D

[Duemellon]

The word has contradictory meanings, but that's not Nas' fault. You'll have to wait for the album...

In fact, the black dude calling the other black dude "nigger" is precisely the target Nas can reach.This is the thing here. You're making an assumption that is who he's talking about/to. You believe he's trying to sanitize/utilize it as a "street greeting" between people in the know, but in the meantime he's not living in a separate fishbowl.

He's naive if he thinks he can keep this in Pandora's jar. Next time a black dude tries to start a fight with "Yo, nigger" the other guy will be like "meh... I've been called worse, hear that one all the time." The racist white dudes who use it probably aren't going to buy the album.I am called that all the time by my own family members. Have I been called worse? No. Even by my own family.

The consciously racist white dudes will probably not buy it, but will gladly get energy from it.

The unaware racist white dudes may buy it, then walk around mocking it or trying to emulate it within their own realms

The absolutely naive white dudes may buy it or simply overhear it and start spreading it around like it was herpes.Language is always evolving. So yeah, you can absolutely change the impact and meanings of existing sounds. I don't see how that's even in question.There are words that do evolve. Context changes. There are words that are generally "locked" & some words are more malleable than others.I don't see what good it does, because some other word will just take on the old meaning. But then, I'm not a big believer in the "words shape attitudes" theory like you are.Well they do. Words are concepts. You can't speak a language without comprehending the concept in some fashion. To participate, comprehend, and formulate words you must have a comprehension of the meaning.I still don't get why this is a discussion. If you're a fan of rap, you've heard this word four thousand times a second.The ones who do so, have 15 of 19 tracks with the word in it, & other ignorant shit do so "qietly". However, Nas is making this an issue by naming his album that way.

You're saying the outrage is too little too late, but Nas did this on purpose. Beyond that, he knows a song an be beeped, a track title can be asterixed, an album title? People may have to ask for it by name. It makes the utterance more prevalent.

If I didn't think it would push the envelope I wouldn't care so much. However, this doesn't in anyway dismiss how much I care or loathe how it's used in most of gangsta rap nowadays.

You're confused and flabbergasted by how many people are getting up-in-arms about it?

While I'm stunned and disappointed you got used to it.

[Frost]

I'm not used to it, I'm saying you came late to the outrage party. Whyon'tchu ask classicgirl what her salary is, compare it against a guys salary for that same position, then go start a rally against the wage gap, like it just started yesterday. :p

[the happy prole]

This is the thing here. You're making an assumption that is who he's talking about/to. You believe he's trying to sanitize/utilize it as a "street greeting" between people in the know, but in the meantime he's not living in a separate fishbowl.

Actually, he is. How can it be that so many people here have never heard anything by Nas and he has several platinum albums?

If you've never heard anything by Nas, or have never even heard of the dude then I doubt that you are much impacted by hip-hop culture. Therefore, I'm highly suspect that these people are suddenly hearing "nigger" dropped in casual conversations. You really do live in a fishbowl.

If you think 99.9% of rap is made by gangsta thugs with no musical talent to cater to a bunch of idiots, then what are you doing hanging out with gangsta thugs and idiots? And how would it be possible for Nas to have an impact whether he uses "nigger" or not?

Furthermore, of the small amount of rap that many people here have been exposed to--- well, no one says anything when Kanye or Common use the word.

So a lot of the outrage has less to do with the N-word and instead with the idea that mainstream rap sucks. Nas is being stereotyped as a no-talent gangsta thug wannabe with nothing interesting to say... by people who have never heard him.

Obviously, being closed-minded about musical taste is hardly an evil sin. You don't have to like Nas. You don't have to listen to rap. But if you don't, then you probably shouldn't be commenting on it.

YOU might have a foot in both worlds, so while I might disagree I respect your opinion as someone who is at least qualified to comment.

[dannyboy]

You don't have to listen to rap. But if you don't, then you probably shouldn't be commenting on it.

Does that mean that we shouldn't be commenting on stories or topics that we have no first hand connection to or real experience with? I mean, I doubt many of us here we tied up by our dates and cut up and chased around with an axe.

[Duemellon]

I'm not used to it, I'm saying you came late to the outrage party.? Me?

I was complaining when NWA came out using it. You should remember that! I
cringed when Public Enemy did too! I loathed NWA, vowed to never buy an album, & I can honestly say they are the very beginning of what made me hate the new "gangsta" style rap that was coming out. Too Short? He didn't have to. Ice-T? Didn't at 1st. All this bullshit you're saying, that I came late to the party isn't even true & if you don't remember it, how do you believe to know it?

1988, what were you listening to again? I was listening to Big Daddy Kane, Eric B & Rakim, & when Grimace pulled out NWA, or McClendon did, I shook my head then & tried my best to memorize Kool Moe Dee & make parodies off of that.

So puhleese, don't start coming at me with the "Late to the party", I declined the invitation when it started.

[frizgolf]

Does that mean that we shouldn't be commenting on stories or topics that we have no first hand connection to or real experience with? I mean, I doubt many of us here we tied up by our dates and cut up and chased around with an axe.
Yep.
I often wondered why I should be commenting on the war when I had no connection with the service nor politicians waging said war.

[Duemellon]

...fishbowl...Actually, he is.He's not anymore. Controversial album = press release = more attention than before.

So yah, he intentionally did something to make sure he was noted.If you've never heard anything by Nas, or have never even heard of the dude then I doubt that you are much impacted by hip-hop culture. Therefore, I'm highly suspect that these people are suddenly hearing "nigger" dropped in casual conversations. You really do live in a fishbowl.I will grant you that, but the last thing I need to hear is someone dropping it from a different person. I've complained to my family when they've used it about me, about each other, or anyone else. I've gotten into one of the few fistfights I've ever been in because I was called it by a friend.

When I'm expecting it, I can be preapred, but when it comes out of nowhere like a slaethbomber it jumps right past the defenses.If you think 99.9% of rap is made by gangsta thugs with no musical talent to cater to a bunch of idiots, then what are you doing hanging out with gangsta thugs and idiots? And how would it be possible for Nas to have an impact whether he uses "nigger" or not?I do believe that goes back to the power of words & concepts behind them. The believe they live in a segregated society. For some reason they're pompous enough to believe they can do what they want to & no one is watching or listening

But they aren't.Furthermore, of the small amount of rap that many people here have been exposed to--- well, no one says anything when Kanye or Common use the word.Point taken, but that's one of the reasons I didn't like some of their songs. I really don't want to hear that word even though the music & rest of what they're saying is good. My mind just shakes it's head & wonders why they couldn't've just chosen something different? Why couldn't they've just avoided saying something that conditions minds to be in such a realm.

[Duemellon]

Yep.
I often wondered why I should be commenting on the war when I had no connection with the service nor politicians waging said war.But your wallet does.

Wait, let's make it clear. The only person who can make comments about a subject matters are those who are experts on it, or at least, the person who is most qualified. Once that person is determined everyone else who wants to think or speak about it must ask the expert if it's ok & accept whatever answer they get. Even if it's something like Africans having limited capactiy for intelligence, just because it's said by a geneticist.

[DaHood]

Even if it's something like Africans having limited capactiy for intelligence, just because it's said by a geneticist.
Nobel prize winning geneticist.

I'm starting to see a pattern here, with this Nobel Prize.

[the happy prole]

Does that mean that we shouldn't be commenting on stories or topics that we have no first hand connection to or real experience with? I mean, I doubt many of us here we tied up by our dates and cut up and chased around with an axe.

No. Of course you're allowed to comment on the fact that the N-word bothers you extremely. Just like you're allowed to comment on the fact that getting cut up by a slightly plump Goth would suck.

If you're saying that said Goth chick did it because of some facet of Goth culture and that this will inspire dozens of copy-cat crimes, or that this was a sexual crime and therefore this woman needs to be kept away from kids because she'll repeatedly rape them then you've gone from stating a personal opinion to making a prediction.

And then yes, I'd expect you to have some knowledge of Goth culture/sexual crimes/sociology.

[Frost]

I'm still not sure why "Hi, I have next to no knowledge of this subject in the last 5 years, but here's how I feel about it!" and the resulting "You've admitted your ignorance, Einstein." is so hard.

If I start telling you how to knit a pair of heelys, laugh at my ass. Because I don't know how heelys work, and I can't knit, and know nothing about knitting. Does that stop me from making a comment? Of course not! Does that make a master knitter's comment that they can knit heelys you can use to fly the bona fide truth? Course not.

But it does make my opinion by definition, ignorant. Soooo not a hard concept.

And now I'm gonna go knit myself some crocs. Goodday! :p

[the happy prole]

He's not anymore. Controversial album = press release = more attention than before.

Why is he getting more attention than before? People were entirely happy to ignore whatever political or positive message or artistry there may have been in his works until he fucked up and called his album the N-word.

I understand the social reality here, which is that a large portion of the population is just looking for a reason to dismiss Nas, rap, etc. As such, it's irresponsible for him to use the word. But shouldn't we also question the motives of people who are suddenly incensed but two weeks ago couldn't give a shit? If some idiot wants to use it in conversation isn't that to some degree their problem?

Look at The Sopranos. There's tons of racial and sexual epithets, treating women as objects, and gory violence. It won tons of awards, it was highly popular, it was critically acclaimed and influential. Much like Nas.

I don't see a whole lot of complaining about The Sopranos on this board. No one's saying "Hey, a whole bunch of stupid assholes are going to try and act like Tony Soprano." It's a show about a literally, a bunch of gangsters. How can you condemn "gangsta rap" and not say shit about gangsta TV? The shit they rap about is presented to you in exquisite video detail every week.

What differentiates The Sopranos from Illmatic? You made an argument differentiating Huck Finn from Nas. And perhaps your argument is legitimate based on the nature of the work, the context in which it is used, and the work's overall message. Someone possibly could do the same with The Sopranos and Nas. Only to do that, you have to be familiar with both works.

I don't want to give the impression like I think Nas' choice has no impact, or that I approve. I understand the reaction you and others have to the word, and why you don't like it.

At the same time, racism is when race is a factor when it doesn't need to be, right? So what differentiates Illmatic from the Sopranos? The stupidity of the artist and/or listeners? When you say that hip-hop listeners are stupid idiots, and hip-hop artists produce works of no artistic merit you're sort of going beyond music and talking about culture. And you really are getting perilously close to racial stereotyping.

Can we honestly say that there isn't some degree of minor not-so-bad-but-you-need-to-pay-attention-to-race level racism going on here on this board? And that there isn't a certain portion of ridiculously stupid racism nationally from people just itching to find a reason to treat Nas and his fans as well, niggers? I refuse to condone that attitude.

So yeah, I'm a bit perturbed by the album title. But I'm also perturbed by the reaction it's getting. I don't know enough to accuse any one person on these boards of racism here-- at worst maybe a certain close-mindedness to hip-hop which is no big deal. I'm just saying on a larger level, all opinions from everyone considered, something kind of stinks here.

[Duemellon]

I'm still not sure why "Hi, I have next to no knowledge of this subject in the last 5 years, but here's how I feel about it!" and the resulting "You've admitted your ignorance, Einstein." is so hard.Because I have admitted awareness of it for the last 5 years as I do hear it, do talk with others about it, & I am familiar with it, but I don't listen.

I don't need to be immersed in it to understand what's been going on. It's odd you're trying to do the "I'm an expert" or it's bastard child "You have no expertise" claim.

What you're suggesting is that because I don't listen to modern rap with appreciation of the music I don't have a leg to stand on. I have heard it & it fostered derision from me. I've heard it since NWA. That's more than 5 years there bucko.

However, to continue, I don't need to be immersed in the music to see it's effects when it's effects are put upon me. When people make assumptions about who I am, what I listen to, what I care about, I kind of get immersed as an innocent bystander.

Man, I don't listen to that stupid ignorance-hurling shit they produce. It is annoying & detrimental to equality as it promotes segregation & is toned with self-righteous elitism. How do I know it's like that? B/c I've heard it in the songs & seen it in the actions of my relatives & friends.

Can I tell you who did what rap on what album? Hell no. Do I have to? I know I don't becuase I really don't care to know who they were, what they said, or how they did it, after I heard it. So please, cut out the self-righteous elitist 'tude & comprehend: "You are not alone" in your knowledge of the effects. The only expert experience you have that is unique is the experience of being you.

They're being fools. They're doing ignorant things. I can see it pretty easily. You defend it. I'm saying you're horribly wrong & making it worse. You took the red pill, I took the blue.

[Frost]

You know....we could settle this with a rap battle.

Somebody (not me, thp or due) post a beat.

Each response/battle has to be 60 seconds or less. No dirty tricks or swearing or anything inappropriate. Use zshare.net.

Unless.....yer yella....

:backhands due with a white glove:

[markalot]

Unless.....yer yella....

Well I am kinda yellowish tan. Sorry, white folk can't rap, you go 'head.

:p

[Frost]

you want some? bring it!

[the happy prole]

I make sure to start every rhyme with "Yo" because that's like totally hip-hop and shit. Then I always end them with "Uh, and you don't stop. Peace out." In between I like to mention that I'm in the house. Sometimes I'll mix it up and use hiz-ouse or even hiz-zay. So you know, I'm really good.

I'll take the challenge, only it'll have to be on YouTube or something. Because it's more about the poses and what you do with your hands than the lyrics anyway.

Rock that shit, homey! Peace out!

[DaHood]

I'm starting to enjoy this thread. :D

[Kruschev]

I'm starting to enjoy this thread. :D

Word. This shit's dope. My buddies and I used to drunkenly freestyle back in the day around campfires. Good times.

[the happy prole]

The people on this board don't really strike me as the type that have spare beats lying around just in case they want to break out some rhymes.

But yeah, if someone wants to upload a beat I'll give it a whirl. frost will kick my ass, though. You kind of have to practice a lot and I don't and well, I'm just not very good. Which is partly why I appreciate rap, I suppose. I know how hard it is.

Now if frost wants to engage me in a guitar shredding competition, it might be a different story. :D

[Frost]

Dude! And I totally have access to a geetar! I don't know the first thing about shredding though.

And how do you know I would kick your ass? I might not be able to rap for shit!

But I think the time has come and gone for the little challenge. Me and you were basically agreeing, so there wasn't much we could really do against one another. Due, of course, is mysteriously absent. :rolleyes:


But here's a little spice in the mix. Due is completely wrong, and here's the checkmate: Dave Chappelle.

Due owns dave chappelle videos and watches dave chappelle. Now, Dave Chappelle says "nigga" as much or more than a ton of rappers.

No explanation for that, except that it's a double standard - due listens to dave chappelle say "nigga" again and again in skit after skit, and it's okay.

But suddenly nas has it as a title and the turds hit the air conditioner? mm hmm. checkmate.

[Frost]

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/30/42/30_42nashakeem.html

84 mil? If that goes through, nas can forget it. LOL. They're not taking an 84 million dollar loss so you can make a statement. Not right now.

[Buzzstein]

Aww come on I want to hear you guys rap! I need entertainment.

I don't have any beats though.

[frizgolf]

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/30/42/30_42nashakeem.html

84 mil? If that goes through, nas can forget it. LOL. They're not taking an 84 million dollar loss so you can make a statement. Not right now.
Pension funds. Record labels.
Hmmm.
You mean my retirement could be tied up in record company investments?

[classicgrrl]

Dude! And I totally have access to a geetar! I don't know the first thing about shredding though..


allright Frost - out with it. I am as white as the NY snow...is it ok for me to use the word nigger?

or nigga?

if it's yes, that is precisely what I will call you the next time (if ever) I see you again.

so choose wisely. :rolleyes:

[frizgolf]

I am as pure as the driven slush...
Fixed that for ya... :p :o

[Frost]

LOL, oh you so better not! ;)

Nice one Friz :p

Buzz - blame due...as usual. It's his fault. the bastid.

[Duemellon]

The people on this board don't really strike me as the type that have spare beats lying around just in case they want to break out some rhymes.Actually I do. Really. I do. Ask FrostStarter. I actually have more than 600 over the years. I could give us all the same one to start with if you'd like.But here's a little spice in the mix. Due is completely wrong, and here's the checkmate: Dave Chappelle.

Due owns dave chappelle videos and watches dave chappelle. Now, Dave Chappelle says "nigga" as much or more than a ton of rappers.

No explanation for that, except that it's a double standard - due listens to dave chappelle say "nigga" again and again in skit after skit, and it's okay.

But suddenly nas has it as a title and the turds hit the air conditioner? mm hmm. checkmate.It's not a double standard. Unfortunately when people seem to have contradictory views it often means it's more complex than you expected.

1st - I didn't buy his video. Whereas I think he's funny, I also don't really want to support him. He will not be getting my money.

2nd - In some of his skits he is taking on acting roles. He's not being "himself", he's actually being "so-n-so" who he saw. It's a sketch comedy show. If someone is an actor in a stage production of Huck Finn & says "Nigger" do you think I'm offended? Don't try to snake in some semantics about how he could be acting as "someone completely different" when he goes to host-mode either, b/c when he uses it then it particularly bothers me.

3rd - It also has always made me cringe. I was shaking my head the 1st few times I heard his stuff. I don't like Dave's stand-up routines either. Why? Mostly for the #2 reason, he's not doing a sketch, he's often just talking from himself to the audience.

Note to RightFroster:
I do not like it when he says "nigger". I believe he would be just as funny if he never used it (except for that one skit with The Niggars). I do not support him with my money. I definitely don't support nor tolerate his stand-up routines.

[Duemellon]

allright Frost - out with it. I am as white as the NY snow...is it ok for me to use the word nigger?

or nigga?

if it's yes, that is precisely what I will call you the next time (if ever) I see you again.

so choose wisely. :rolleyes:I'll back you up. If you say it to him & I'm there, make sure you say the "a" version. I won't let him touch you.

It's incredibly hipocritical for people to say that Nigga is some term of endearment that can only be exchanged between African Americans. After all, CGrrl, didn't your anscestors come from Africa too?Fixed that for ya... :p :oShe's talking about her skin-tone, not her right to wear a white dress for any upcoming wedding. Am I in trouble now?

[frizgolf]

She's talking about her skin-tone, not her right to wear a white dress for any upcoming wedding.
Oh.... OH!
Damn. Sometimes I get caught up in the cross-thread silliness late on a Saturday.
Carry on.

[Frost]

Nice try Due-gie Howser!

You said Dave is playing a role. You realize that's what rappers are doing as well. There are 30 murders on every rap album. P.E. rapped about breaking out of jail - you realize they're playing roles, right? Do you think Chuck blew up that arizona politician's headquarters? Do you think half, or even a fourth, or even 1/10000th of what rappers are talking about they actually did?

Come on now. You can't let dave off the hook that easy.


If you're outraged at Nas, get outraged at Dave. Toss out that DVD you have of him saying "nigga" like 5,000 times.

Additionally, I own those dvd's too, and we both know he says that word PLENTY of times during his standup, and it has nothing to do with any characters he's playing in that ep.


I love you man, but you're off with your outrage. I'm not saying you have to love it, I'm just saying how can you own a dvd with a guy saying nigga at least 30 or 40 times, then call nas trash for naming his cd nigga, and you haven't heard one word, one beat, one lyric from that CD.

[Duemellon]

Nice try Due-gie Howser!

You said Dave is playing a role. You realize that's what rappers are doing as well.I realize that Dave is doing a skit & makes it clear he's acting, yet the rappers try to live that way. Is Nas really trying to say he doesn't use "Nigga" except when rapping? Is he saying "This is what the joke is, but not the reality"? That's M&M & his uberviolent shit.I love you man, but you're off with your outrage. I'm not saying you have to love it, I'm just saying how can you own a dvd with a guy saying nigga at least 30 or 40 times, then call nas trash for naming his cd nigga, and you haven't heard one word, one beat, one lyric from that CD.You are not even trying to understand. You're trying to link a character, a play, a skit, with reality in a setting that is clearly set to be a play.

You keep saying i have no right to my outrage but you have no idea how much outrage I've had over this. I also understand you're saying I'm not so outraged when so-n-so does it. WTF dude? I just told you I don't like it when Dave Chappelle does. I cringe every time even when it's a skit. BWTFeva, right? b/c as far as you're concerned I have to go march on Washington every time I hear the word.

[Frost]

And you think Dave doesn't say it when he's not doing the show? You gotta be kidding. Dave probably says it in his SLEEP, dude! :p

"zzzzz.......nigganigganigga....zzzzz....nigganigga nigga....zzzzz"

No need to posit the ridiculous in terms of you marching on washington. I'm just saying if you're going to be pissed about the word and its usage by black men to refer to other black men, keep consistent yo :D

Or....perhaps you're just like me, and you really aren't all that outraged. More annoyed. I'm annoyed, sure. I've never called anybody that name in my life. I don't think you have either. So it's pretty clear we both aren't big fans of the word.

But I think this is more of an annoyance for both of us. As evidenced by that dave chappelle video chillin in your collection.

I'm just sayin - no need to call nas's cd trash, just say you're not feeling it. No need for outrage when annoyance is really the feeling. Are you callin dave's work trash? I think not.

Nas is similarly skilled, and I think Dave Chappelle himself would tell you that. The man can rap his ass off, and I'm not even that big of a fan of his.

[the happy prole]

I gotta break ranks and side with Due a little here.

You know that Chapelle is doing comedy from the start, so it's a light-hearted vibe. And then he takes it-over-the-top intentionally for comedic value and there are all sorts of visual clues and everything else. It's obvious he's not only playing a role, but he's even that serious about the role.

With a few exceptions, rappers aren't acting clownish and make you laugh. You have guys like 50 Cent and Nas who grew up hard and they say that they're keeping it real, showing America what streetlife is about, etc. What happened with Biggie and Tupac kind of wrecked the whole "It's just a role" thing, and rappers should take more responsibility because of it.

Although really, people should be complaining that they rap about violence and crime and then really go out and do it. Not that they say the N-word in raps and then use it real life.

[Frost]

Nah. Dave Chappelle uses "nigga" far, far, far too much to allege that every time he's using it, he's doing it comedically. Besides, the vast majority of the time he uses it, it has nothing to do with the skit, he just says it.

Like when he talks about how r. kelly is mad at him. He's like "aint nothin funny about that, that nigga is mad!". Or when he tells his son "I'm broke, nigga, I'm broke!" to his son in that one skit - nigga isn't being used to mean anything - he's not parodying anything with it. He uses it because he wants to call his son "nigga". Or when he's out of work and at the gas station and he says "what I'ma do with a dollar - nigga I got kids!" Again, he's not using it to parody anything - he's not poking fun at it. In the skit with the white woman singing, he's like "I'm serious, nigga, I like lesbians!"

His use is just as real and serious as when rappers call one another "nigga", or say "nigga".

You're both wrong! :p

[DaHood]

N-I-G, G-A-R it's the Niggar fam-i-ly...

[the happy prole]

Actually I do. Really. I do. Ask FrostStarter. I actually have more than 600 over the years. I could give us all the same one to start with if you'd like.

I figured you probably did. However, you were disqualified.

[Frost]

Oh I knew he did - but that's not a fair starting ground.

Plus I'd hate to eat him up on his own beat. That's just rude, man. :p

[Duemellon]

I'm just saying if you're going to be pissed about the word and its usage by black men to refer to other black men, keep consistent yo :DThere was already a few terms for that: Brother, 'cuz, blood, homes, brotherman, etc. Why do you need another with such an ugly pedigree?Or....perhaps you're just like me, and you really aren't all that outraged.Nope. I'm outraged. Been outraged for a long long time here. However, I'm so used to being outraged about rappers using Nigga it's lost its impact. Who cares? So Duemellon's been outraged over the word nigga/er since 1986?

However, they stepped it up a notch with this. So I stepped up my outrage.I've never called anybody that name in my life. I don't think you have either.Well, the 2nd part isn't true. And to be clear on another point, the 1st time anyone ever called me "nigger" was when I said it. It wasn't the last time I was called nigger and I'm still young, I'm sure I'll have plenty more opportunities.But I think this is more of an annoyance for both of us. As evidenced by that dave chappelle video chillin in your collection.Nope. Do you remember that time when we were sincerely religious right before the 90s? I didn't swear anymore but you & others around me still would? Didn't I ask you guys not to do it so much? Well, I did, but it was only once & it was condemened with another curse word in a laugh.

What choices did I have then? I could have avoided you, McClendon, Grimace, Twotone, Snatchachees, WoodRad, & Peep, or I could just accept that you guys would still toss them out. What I wanted to do/see & be with was a source of conflict, but I grinned & bared it being disappointed all the time that you & them didn't care. Didn't impact our friendship(s) much, but
there it was & I wasn't able to change the fact ya'll were doing that.Are you callin dave's work trash? I think not.Yes. His standup is shit. I can't watch it. Really. Not kidding. I just hear it all over the place & I just can't stomach to watch it. When he's talking the stage as the mcee/host & doing it, it irked me even more.

Having been an actor, singer, & artist, there are things I know that must be done when trying to set an environment. Relying on stereotypes to reduce the length of time to tell a character's life is an easy & commonly used shortcut. When someone in a DChappelle skit says "Nigga" you know what stereotype he's calling on, what time frame, & such. It's a cheap way to do so, it also reinforces racist concepts, but it's being more direct & literal.

You can't tell George Washingtons actual lifestory without the word president. You can't tell Malik el-Hajj Shabazz's story without mentioning Islam. You can't give Dr. MLK jr's lifestory without the word nigger in there somewhere.Nas is similarly skilled, and I think Dave Chappelle himself would tell you that. The man can rap his ass off, and I'm not even that big of a fan of his.Talent doesn't mean shit if leveraged to do harm. From PolPot to Shrubya, ... you know that. I can separate someone's abilities from their actions, but I'm more concerned about their legacy than their talents.

[Duemellon]

I figured you probably did. However, you were disqualified.le sigh... I was dq'd.

[frizgolf]

There was already a few terms for that: Brother, 'cuz, blood, homes, brotherman, etc. Why do you need another with such an ugly pedigree?
'Cuz suburban white boys have usurped them all? :confused:

[Duemellon]

There was already a few terms for that: Brother, 'cuz, blood, homes, brotherman, etc. Why do you need another with such an ugly pedigree?'Cuz suburban white boys have usurped them all? :confused:Oh yah, I forgot this term is completely impervious to being co-opted like those others.

[Buzzstein]

I don't hear any rapping. This thread needs some rapping!

How does this beat thing work? I have drum samples in ACID...

[the happy prole]

The English language is filled with words that used to be offensive and have become less so through usage. I don't even know why that's even debatable. Of course "nigger" can be changed into something entirely harmless if you use it all the time in a non-aggressive context.

Like any other word, it can be co-opted and that is the entire point. To get a large enough group of people to say it in a different way that pretty soon THAT's the meaning instead of the old one. The way I see it, it's you guys who are all like "No, it's a special word that is totally different than any other word."

The only thing is, I just doubt one person can bring that about. And I think a new word would just replace it unless attitudes change.

[Duemellon]

The English language is filled with words that used to be offensive and have become less so through usage. I don't even know why that's even debatable.That's true, but I do believe those words who transition do so while still maintaining a connection to their previous word unless the word is used in a completely different part of the sentence structure (context of the sentence, not even the situation).Gay
Used to mean happy, carefree, light

Then it transitioned to mean someone who was a homosexual. I do believe that transition was done because "those people" (back then) were considered overly-happy, carefree, etc.

Then it was moved to mean something that was lame, overdone, & corny. Even then it still retained that conotation of homosexuality because things were "lame, overdone, & corny" because they were seen to be something a homosexual would have done.

Nowadays older people have removed that last tag to it & now it's just a neutral homosexual (although many kids still use the derrogatory "lame becuase it's homosexual-ish" phrase).The other example is when a word is put somewhere else in a sentence structure from verb, to noun, or adjective. Most of the time those words still retain a link to their original (learn became "learnings") but some are just vastly different.Sea, See, & C

You can't accidentally put "see" in where "sea" meant & it suddenly means "ocean". It simply means you misspelled it.

I want to see the sea
I want to sea the see (which would mean "I want to body of water the look at)Like any other word, it can be co-opted and that is the entire point. To get a large enough group of people to say it in a different way that pretty soon THAT's the meaning instead of the old one. The way I see it, it's you guys who are all like "No, it's a special word that is totally different than any other word."Yep, that can happen. I'm just pointing out the word will bring baggage unless it's used in a totally different sentence component.The only thing is, I just doubt one person can bring that about. And I think a new word would just replace it unless attitudes change.The word would be replaced if the concept remains. And no, there is no singlular person who could. Someone has to say it, others have to pick up on it, & it has to retain it's new meaning. There've been plenty of "fad defintion neuveaus" that have happened. Which ones stay & which ones go is hard to predict when it's 1st introduced.

However, nigga is far from being an archiac, obsolete, or unused word.

[classicgrrl]

all, CGrrl, didn't your anscestors come from Africa too?


lord let's hope so, the English are so damn ugly with their bad teeth and all.

:p

[Handy Smurf]

Hold on, let me start a thread to be outraged that some rock song has the word "bitch" in it. NOOO GOOOOD NOOOO!!!! NOT THAAAAT!!! :p :p

If youre referring to the song Crazy Bitch, I would prefer that you start a thread about how outraged you are that the song sucks