Ban Social Security for illegals!!!!

[PeterABnny]

Apparently there's an email petition floating around and it's found its way to work. Normally I delete chain emails outright - especially if they're xenophobic ones like this. But this one caught my eye, because of its call to deny SS benefits to illegals who - according to the email - don't pay into SS and thus shouldn't be granted any benefits.

Um... If I'm not mistaken, doesn't every US worker pay into Social Security via their paychecks - even the exploited illegal ones who get next to nothing for their long hours (assuming their employer is paying them aboveboard)? Am I right, or no?

Here's the email. The guy I work with (who is polar opposite of me politically) is the last name on the list.


-----------------------------------------------------

Mom was a homemaker and Dad worked all his life and
paid into
SS. Dad has passed away and now Mom can barely make
ends meet. While the
possible 'illegal' alien in front of her at the
grocery store buys the
name brands, Mom goes for the generic brands, and day
old breads. She
doesn't have out of state calling on her phone,
because she can't afford
it and shops at the thrift shops and dollar stores.?
She considers having
a pizza delivered once a week 'eating out'. She grew
up during the
depression, watched her husband go overseas to fight
in WW II a year after
their marriage, and then they went on to raise, feed
and clothe 5
children, struggling to pay tuition for parochial
schools.


The Senate voted this week to allow 'illegal' aliens
access to Social
Security benefits. I'm sorry, but how can the Senate
justify this slap in
the face to born and bred, or naturalized citizens.

It is already impossible to live on Social Security
alone. If they give
benefits to 'illegal' aliens who have never
contributed, where does that
leave us that have paid into Social Security all our
working lives?

Attached is an opportunity to sign a petition that
requires citizenship
for eligibility to receive Social services. If you do
not wish to sign the
petition yourself, please forward on to anyone you
think might be
interested.

PETITION FOR: President Bush Mr. President: The
petition below is a
protest against the recent vote of the senate which
was to allow illegal
aliens access to our social security! We demand that
you and all
congressional representatives require citizenship for
anyone to be
eligible for social services in the United States


1. Mary Takami , Calif.
2. Connie Dodd. Calif.
3. Frank Beirau , Calif.
4. Barbara Murray , Calif.
5. Dody Farha , Okla.
6, Woody Farho, Okla
7. Donna Capatosto , CA
8. Larry Capa tosto , CA
9. Ryan Capatosto , CA

[snipped a whole lotta names]

618. JoAnn Gutkowski, CT
619..Nicloe Gutkowski,CT
620. Jillian Gutkowski,Ct
621. Lauren Gutkowski CT.
622. Edward Gutkowski Ct.
623. Dan Valente Ct.
624. edward gutkowski sr.
625. Sandra Podpolucha CT
626.Michael Gliniak Meriden,CT.
627.Mary Ganci SC
628. Shirley Massicotte, Ct.
629.S. Kincman, CT
630. Maxx Kincman, CT
631. Casey Kincman, CT
632. Hellen Allard, CT
633. Charlotte Allen, AZ
634. Aaron McNamara, AZ
635. Deborah Janes, CT
636. Dennis Janes, CT
637. Tony Cardarella, CT
638. Dave Thayer , CT
639. Sean Murphy, CT
640. Glenda Dubois, CT
641. Gary Strine Sr., OHIO

If you don't forward the petition and just stop it, we
will lose all these
names. If you do not want to sign it, please just
forward it to anyone who
might want a voice. Thank you! Or copy and paste.

To add your name, click on 'forward.' You will be able
to add your name at
the bottom of the list and then forward it to your
friends.

THE 1,000TH PERSON SEND IT ON TO THE FOLLOWING E-MAIL
ADDRESS:
< /STRONG>
President@WhiteHouse.gov


------------------------------------------------------------------


Anymore it's becoming clear to me as time goes by that this whole "anti-illegal" sentiment that's being fanned by conservatives is really more "anti-Hispanic" than anything. They're not pissed off about people being in this country illegally; they're pissed off about Hispanics being in this country illegally. Somewhere I'd have to wonder if some of the people who signed this stupid-assed petition would be all in favor of an American-style Auschwitz, to rid themselves of the crime-lovin' wetback manace that's so corrupting their upright, God-fearin' populous.... :rolleyes: :mad:

[the happy prole]

It doesn't happen. It's actually the opposite. Illegal immigrants get fake employment papers with bogus SSN's so they can work.

Their employers-- in an attempt to keep their books on the up-and-up-- then withhold SS taxes. They send that money to the government, who then discovers that the SSN's are bogus, says "Thank you very much" and puts the money in the social security pot. If it weren't for the windfall from illegal immigrants, Social Security would probably already be running a debt.

[markalot]

Anymore it's becoming clear to me as time goes by that this whole "anti-illegal" sentiment that's being fanned by conservatives is really more "anti-Hispanic" than anything.

We are a nation of laws! Is what my brother in law likes to tell me. We are a nation of immigrants, is usually my reply.

[Chomp Samba]

You should have deleted that chain letter too.

[slmpickens]

here's (http://woxy.com/boards/showthread.php?t=46446&highlight=illegal) a thread from not to long ago about illegal immigration. it's mostly about illegals paying taxes, and debunks a lot of the common misconceptions.

and am i wrong, or didn't the senate just shoot down a bill that would have legalized a whole bunch of currently illegal immigrants? oddly, bush is pushing for the passing of this, but most conservatives are against him (including your favorite conservative talk show hosts).

[the happy prole]

Yeah. It's a shame, too.

Bush's policy is actually a decent middle-of-the-road compromise. There's some bits in it that need fixing but in general it gets across the idea that we can't have these open borders and a sort of "shadow society" while at the same time realizing we can't just kick everyone already here out.

But it's much easier for Dems to hate it just because it's Bush, and for the conservatives to maintain their hardcore stance and distance themselves from an unpopular administration.

[BigSugar]

I represent about 300-400 hispanic illegals. None of them paid taxes, nor were taxes, medicare, or SS withheld from their checks. the head of this ring is going to ultimately have to pay back about a million bucks to uncle sam, but thanx to my diligent work, that's about 8 million less than they otherwise would have paid in withholding, FUTA, medicare, SS, etc... over the last 7 years of work.

i'm here to tell you that most of the illegals don't file tax returns, and most don't have money withheld by their employers unless they are working in chain type stores or otherwise on the books using puerto rican papers or fake documents.....

and the problem with illegal immigration is terrible with the hispanic population b/c of the common border. illegal chinese/pan-asian labor flows into the US through Mexico and Canada too, as well as our ports, but at a much slower pace b/c of the difficulty in getting to the North American continent....also Russian illegals are coming more and more to the states.

i was at a Notre Dame game and was at the Linebacker and started partying with these Irish dudes (real Irish dudes from Eire:)....5 of them in total, and all were illegal. They came to the US on visa's about a decade ago and just stayed. back then they could get drivers licenses and social security cards and the whole deal....they were real estate brokers and agents for the most part, but they were all licensed by the Chicago real estate board and Illinois as well. it just blew me away how blatantly they carried off the illegal nature of their being here.

[the-dude]

Living in San Diego i gotta say, Illegals rule! If they took away all of our illegals, quality of life and expenses would change noticeably.

[the happy prole]

It's difficult to know exactly how many illegal immigrants are off the books because well, that's what off the books means. I don't know that there's a reliable estimate.

But the ones off the books aren't paying into the system either. There's not a situation where someone is not paying into Social Security and getting Social Security back. You get paid based on how much you put in so that stuff all gets checked out.

There's some other benefits-- especially at the state level-- where illegal immigrants may be getting more out of the system than they put in, but Social Security is definitely not one of them.

[markalot]

The thought that we can somehow get all the illegals to go home underlines how out of touch or cynical some of these politicians are. Do they think we're dealing with a few thousand or something? And the government is somehow going to deport all of them in a timely fashion?

[the happy prole]

Trying to deport them would tie up the administrative and judicial systems and the expense would be astronomical. Plus there are certain sectors of the economy that have come to rely heavily on illegal immigrants so there would be a short-term (but significant) loss while those industries adjust.

OTOH, giving them legal citizenship and government benefits would also cost us a ton of money considering Social Security has already been pushed to the brink (or past) and we're already running a huge-ass deficit.

I just can't think of a solution that would not cost us a great deal of money. Which should tell you right there that the idea of illegal immigrants suppoedly draining our economy is pure myth.

[classicgrrl]

Trying to deport them would tie up the administrative and judicial systems and the expense would be astronomical. Plus there are certain sectors of the economy that have come to rely heavily on illegal immigrants so there would be a short-term (but significant) loss while those industries adjust.

OTOH, giving them legal citizenship and government benefits would also cost us a ton of money considering Social Security has already been pushed to the brink (or past) and we're already running a huge-ass deficit.

I just can't think of a solution that would not cost us a great deal of money. Which should tell you right there that the idea of illegal immigrants suppoedly draining our economy is pure myth.

actually, giving illegals citizenship might shore up SS for the very short term as most illegals are not of SS age. More money in the pot for the baby boomers that are about to take out in the next 5-8 years.

[the_birds]

Illegals cannot receive SS payouts already, so are they trying to ban contributions?

[Shlep]

Trying to deport them would tie up the administrative and judicial systems and the expense would be astronomical.

I don't see how. Either you have the legal right to be here and validate such a claim without much difficulty by either coughing up the necessary/proper documentation or directing someone to, or you don't. If you don't, you get shipped back home with all the others guys who couldn't. Meanwhile, the US Border Patrol spends time just about every night corralling those who lacked the the guile, agility, or talent for sprinting to avoid getting nabbed, puts them on a bus, and sends them back home. Many have been turned away repeatedly, and some get pinched so many times that they are acquainted with the Border Patrol agents and vice-versa and even become cordial with them.

I understand the by and large, neither party in this state of affairs tend to hate or resent each other; rather, each sees the other as just guys who are doing what they feel they must do to get by. It doesn't hurt that many agents are fluent in the language and customs of those they pursue, stemming from having been raised in household headed by people who were able to get here and stay.


Plus there are certain sectors of the economy that have come to rely heavily on illegal immigrants so there would be a short-term (but significant) loss while those industries adjust.

Indeed.

[classicgrrl]

actually, this thread should be titled Ban Social Security.

tis a silly arguement really because SS won't be here in ten years anyway, what the hell is the point of bitching about it?

just get me into traditional ed or government job so i can cease supporting someone else's lifestyle and keep my own money, thank you very much.

[Shlep]

Hmmmm...I never did finish getting around to giving the e-mail that started all this a right good goofing!

Um... If I'm not mistaken, doesn't every US worker pay into Social Security via their paychecks - even the exploited illegal ones who get next to nothing for their long hours (assuming their employer is paying them aboveboard)? Am I right, or no?

You answered your own question, Pete. ;) Every US WORKER does, or barring some circumstances, is supposed to. But it's NON-American workers which are at the crux of the issue.

If everything is on the up-and-up, the worker isn't breaking the law by being here, and his employer isn't breaking the law by employing him, then the worker fills out a W-2 which is provided by the employer upon getting hired. The employers files it, and the IRS knows how much money to gouge the worker on payday.

Conversely, if the worker is in the US illegally, trying to stay under the radar while making his bread, he certainly doesn't have the necessary documentation any more then he has the desire to leave a detailed electronic and/or paper trail that leads to him. Hence, the workers are hired on the sly, often on some sort of catch-as-catch-can basis which involves standing around at some de facto designated spot (i.e. outside a convenience store, first thing in the AM) until some dude in a pickup rolls up since he knows this is where one of the local pools of cheap temp labor is, and knows it just as well as the Mexicans (*YES,* I know and understand they're not all Mexican, just illustrating the point) know that it's the place they need to hang out if they want to score some work off of Pickup Truck Guy when PTG realizes hes a little short-handed.

Here's the email. The guy I work with (who is polar opposite of me politically) is the last name on the list.

Already, I'm on pins and needles...these sorts of e-mails are always a regular treasure-trove of wisdom and deep thought.

Mom was a homemaker and Dad worked all his life and paid into SS.

Say "Hello" to Mom and Dad....

http://www.uwm.edu/Course/448-192-001/wood.jpg

Aren't they just *THE* cutest couple?

Dad has passed away and now Mom can barely make ends meet.

Well, if "Dad" sold "Mom" on the idea that Social Security would set them up for the rest of their lives...well, that would explain the expression on Moms' face. She's looking over at him like there's something she'd like to do with that pitchfork.

While the possible 'illegal' alien in front of her at the grocery store buys the name brands, Mom goes for the generic brands, and day old breads.

WHAT?! THE?! FUCK?!?!?!

Is this true? Am I reading this right? THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!! What the hell became of the America I thought I knew?!?! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Some fence-climbing beaner just waltzes in here through Nogales, Texas wearing a big hat and playing an accordian and gets to eat...the exact same cereal...as some salt-of-the-Earth, God-fearing American woman like "Mom"? Well, except that they pay more because the General Mills stuff costs twice as much as the generic stuff while being otherwise indistinguishable...which is why many "Moms" (like mine, for example) get upset that anyone would pay twice as much to get the same cereal in smaller quantities but with a cooler cartoon mascot, because back in her day, people knew the value of a dollar and didn't capriciously waste it to get the same suger-coated crap with the frog on it instead of the stuff with the imaginary cartoon king on it...damn it, where was I going with that?!

She doesn't have out of state calling on her phone, because she can't afford it...

Actually, she can afford it just fine.

It's just that after her kids moved out, they didn't want their dotty, widowed, cheap-ass generic-bulk-bag cereal-eating mom calling them up to nag them every other goddam day (as she has nothing better to do) to lament the fact that it seems like forever that they all got together as a family and bonded over day-old-bread sandwiches and milk that's at least 3 days beyond the expiration date stamped on it ("You can't even notice until it's almost been a week!" she say...fucking bitch!!).

Her kids finally got around to addressing this issue by telling her that illegal Mexican migrantes keep getting dispatched by their head of state to sneak in, steal phone poles and fiber-op cable, and smuggle them back to Mexico as part of their Presidents' plan to bring the Mexican communication and information infrastructure-- which at present is wholly reliant on a complex system of carrier donkeys-- up to par to the American one, or at least the one American had in 1897.

This, they tell her, is done by stashing them in their huge '64 Chevy Impala low-riders; they go on to claim that they claim while struggling to keep a straight face, is accomplished by transporting them through the main drag back into Mexico in their huge '64 Chevy Impala low-riders; they go on to say that the stunts performed with the pneumatic syspension systems are in reality something akin to a Chicano form of semaphore code which to date hasn't been cracked.

...and shops at the thrift shops and dollar stores.?

So do lots of people who don't think saving lots of money is a symptom of economic hardship; a good friend mine, John, who comes from a fairly prosperous family, headed straight to the Salvation Army store on the other side of town upon getting his sheepskin from Virginia Commonwealth University and assembled at least two pretty damned sharp-looking outfits to wear on interviews for $80.

Lots of hipsters get their clothes there as well.

She considers having a pizza delivered once a week 'eating out'.

This being something that together with some other inexplicable tics, quirks, and behaviors have served to fuel suspicion concerning the onset of senile dementia.


I would like to pause for a moment and observe that by this point, I find myself completely taken in by this e-mail. I am convinced that illegal immigration is a very serious problem, and while others may be content to just talk about this issue, I have decided that the time has come for me to take, serious, meaningful, and resolute action!

I'm heading straight to Mexico, changing my name to Enrique, and sneaking back into the country. Sounds like those slippery taco-benders have got it made and are positively farting through silk. I want in on some o' that!

She grew up during the depression, watched her husband go overseas to fight in WW II a year after their marriage, and then they went on to raise, feed and clothe 5 children, struggling to pay tuition for parochial schools.

...and all because a bunch of goddam Mexicans thumbing their noses at the concept of American sovereignty, who act like they have the God-given right to just barge right onto our turf whenever it bloody-well pleases them and swipe millions of lucrative jobs harvesting lettuce and cleaning rooms at the local Motel 6 started...uhhh...what the...?

The Senate voted this week to allow 'illegal' aliens access to Social Security benefits.

The use of quote marks would seem to suggest that the part about them being illegal is disingenuous. Did this guy change his mind all of the sudden?

I'm sorry, but how can the Senate justify this slap in the face to born and bred, or naturalized citizens.

I'd have assumed they intended to do so in the usual manner: simply do it, then sit back and let the partisan media hacks spend a week or so screaming that the other side nurses a deep-seated, visceral desire to destroy the country from the inside out. That's usually all it takes for the public to cease caring and turn its attention to the next issue of critical, vital importance to our dear republic sufficiently important enough to warrant its very own cringe-inducingly stupid screed that people who ought to be slapped around and then banned from using e-mail insist on sticking in everyone elses' inbox.

[Shlep]

it is already impossible to live on Social Security alone.

All the more reason why Social Security ought to be jealously protected and continue to be the sole domain of 'real' Americans: that is, it sucks and doesn't do much good.

If they give benefits to 'illegal' aliens who have never contributed, where does that leave us that have paid into Social Security all our working lives?

I was reminded of something I read a few years ago in one of PJ O'Rourkes' books that discussed issues having to do with Social Security and its attendant problems...a bit of trivia outlined in some detail on the Social Security Adminstrations' official website (SOURCE (http://www.ssa.gov/history/idapayroll.html):

On January 31, 1940, the first monthly retirement check was issued to Ida May Fuller of Ludlow, Vermont, in the amount of $22.54. Miss Fuller, a Legal Secretary, retired in November 1939. She started collecting benefits in January 1940 at age 65 and lived to be 100 years old, dying in 1975.

Ida May Fuller worked for three years under the Social Security program. The accumulated taxes on her salary during those three years was a total of $24.75. Her initial monthly check was $22.54. During her lifetime she collected a total of $22,888.92 in Social Security benefits.

That American born-and-bred bitch spent almost 40 years fleecing hard-working Americans and now laughs at us from beyond the grave!

Attached is an opportunity to sign a petition that requires citizenship for eligibility to receive Social services.

The petition does?

If you do not wish to sign the petition yourself, please forward on to anyone you think might be interested.

To: bob_shorthairs@gmail.com
From: alfredo_gomez@yahoo.com
Re: Mexicans Stealing Social Security

Bob:

The following e-mail got dumped in my Outlook inbox at work. I was about to delete it because it's mostly a bunch of bullshit of the sort routinely found in unsolicited e-mails intended to rally support for, or opposition to, certain legislation among the sort of slack-jawed imbeciles who used random e-mailings as a basis for their social or political beliefs.

And that's when I thought of you...

PETITION FOR: President Bush Mr. President:

The petition below is a protest against the recent vote of the senate which
was to allow illegal aliens access to our social security!

"Even though we think Social Security doesn't do much good, we still don't want some illegal migrant getting in on it."

We demand that you and all congressional representatives require citizenship for anyone to be eligible for social services in the United States

"We realize this matter has already been put to a vote, and the measure was approved...but that was before I e-mailed you."

1. Mary Takami , Calif.
2. Connie Dodd. Calif.
3. Frank Beirau , Calif.
4. Barbara Murray , Calif.
5. Dody Farha , Okla.


http://drinkingliberally.org/blogs/oakland/archives/bush%20laugh.jpg

"HAHAHA!! 'Doody Farha!' HAHAHAHA!! Sounds kinda like 'doody,' Doesn't it? HAHAHAAAA!! Aw man, that's gonna keep me up tonight..'Dody Farha!' Heheheheeeee..."

If you don't forward the petition and just stop it, we will lose all these
names.

Uhhh...me, or Bush?

If you do not want to sign it, please just forward it to anyone who might want a voice.

Fuck "voting," I have e-mail!!

Anymore it's becoming clear to me as time goes by that this whole "anti-illegal" sentiment that's being fanned by conservatives is really more "anti-Hispanic" than anything. They're not pissed off about people being in this country illegally; they're pissed off about Hispanics being in this country illegally.

The Democrats have hardly been busy making any particularly bold moves in supporting illegal immigrants. And I think regardless of who's talking about it, the whole "illegal immigration" debate by default tends to refer to Hispanics. And some Latino demographics (i.e. those of the Cuban extraction in Florida) often sway towards the GOP at the polls.