hey, why don't you yell homophobic and fat-hating stuff at me & my friends? [Archive]

epeolatry

25 Jun 2007, 08:48 AM

written last night & x-posted from my own livejournal:

(k-cal is my girlfriend's nickname.)

i don't even really know what just happened; but it's just another example of why we have to move out of this fucking city.

k-cal went & picked up a delicious italian meal from pompilio's. i was at home and my friend Daniel called...he had a car full of gay men and was headed to cinci. Daniel recently (like the last 8 days) started dating this guy who we pseudo-knew in undergrad, and they were hanging out w/ 2 friends from out of town and got to talking about cincinnati stuff (skyline, graeters) and the four of them decided to drive to cinci from columbus.

so when they got here, they ate skyline & we met them at graeters. then we went up to Bellevue park at the end of ohio ave to show the cinci skyline to the 2 non-Ohioans. we intended just to hang out there for a couple of minutes and then maybe come back to our house for a beer, but we ended up sitting there chatting for over an hour.

when we first got to the park, it was dark, so yes, it was technically closed. there were no cops and then we didn't think about sitting there for a bit. there was a white guy walking his two dogs, and a black man hanging out in his car. we sat up on the benches overlooking the city for awhile, and then i noticed that the guy w/ the dogs had gotten into his truck and left. the black guy was just standing in front of the old building (where the restrooms are) and eventually he was joined by 2 friends, a white male and another person, i think a black female.

they started to leave and we were about to leave, but decided to stand there and wait until they left because they sketched us out (the black guy standing there watching us until his friends showed up was sketchy-makin). they yelled something and got in their car, and then drove up next to us.

they were yelling at us from their car, something about a "sausage-fest" and some other shit to me. i was addressed a few times as "big girl" and we started walking back to our cars. i almost had joel call the police because i was that scared. the 2 men were much bigger than me, and in cinci, who knows who has guns. i was shaking so hard that i thought i was going to vomit. they kept yelling that people like us weren't welcome there and we had better leave and not come back, and then the black guy yelled something about "hooking up with the big girl sometime."

they continued to yell at us from their car, parked so that it was blocking the exit. one guy kept saying the things about us not being welcome and that we better leave because he "wasn't playin".

they pulled down the hill a bit and we said quick goodbyes, and i watched them pull further down ohio street.

Daniel and the guys headed out; we drove home.

i puked a little bit in the street when i got out of my car.
our cats know we're upset about something.

i fucking hate this shit. we weren't bothering them, we weren't doing anything but sitting there chatting, and i'm fucking tired of being stared at, whispered about, and harassed.

please just leave us alone.

EDITED TO ADD:

I'm upset for a lot of reasons.

They ruined our lovely evening (new friends, good conversation, ice cream).

They were most likely (based on assumptions), not rich people. People who are treated like shit every day for their race, socio-economic position, and they were made to feel powerful because they were able to intimidate us. They should be able to find power in other places in the world, but racism/capitalism/etc have made it impossible for that to happen.

I got a good look at both of those men, and they weren't thin either. I'm feeling victimized as a queer fat woman, and honestly, does anyone think i need to ever be reminded that i'm any of those things? Things that society constantly tells me as less than everything else?

Unrequited

25 Jun 2007, 08:57 AM

They were most likely (based on assumptions), not rich people. People who are treated like shit every day for their race, socio-economic position, and they were made to feel powerful because they were able to intimidate us. They should be able to find power in other places in the world, but racism/capitalism/etc have made it impossible for that to happen.

I used to believe this, but not anymore, some people are just bad news, period. I'm sorry to hear about your experience though.

Jumpman

25 Jun 2007, 09:05 AM

I'm getting angry reading this. I'm sorry you have to go through this, it's something I can't empathize with as a straight white male, but I sympathize. Nothing makes me angrier than racism and homophobia. It makes my blood boil, and because I am apparently "in the club" I've heard my fair share of shit from relatives, friends, acquaintances, etc.... it just turns me into a white hot ball of fire. Fuck this.

Well anyway, they probably had small dicks. :D

Sushi

25 Jun 2007, 09:07 AM

Sweetie, that is fucking crazy. I know stuff like this happens, but I guess being enconsed in leftyland (aka Cleveland's eastern suburbs/the so-called "Heights area") I forget that it can happen very close to home. I'm sorry that your evening with your friends was spoiled, that you felt scared to the point of vomiting in a place where you should feel safe, that the guys from out of town got a picture of the worst Ohio has to offer, and that some pathetic morons were so threatened by your presence or feel so powerless in their own lives that they felt they needed to yell insults at strangers. I think your postscript to this shows a great deal of wisdom and insight. Their background doesn't excuse their actions, but it explains a hell of a lot.

During the 2004 election, I got to drive the Pants on Fire mobile. Some scrawny older woman came up and told us we couldn't have it in public because it insulted the president. She called me fat too. I think it's an insult that stupid people use when they have no ammunition.

I'm pissed for you, but very glad you're all safe.

Duemellon

25 Jun 2007, 09:10 AM

They ruined our lovely evening (new friends, good conversation, ice cream).

They were most likely (based on assumptions), not rich people. People who are treated like shit every day for their race, socio-economic position, and they were made to feel powerful because they were able to intimidate us. They should be able to find power in other places in the world, but racism/capitalism/etc have made it impossible for that to happen.

I got a good look at both of those men, and they weren't thin either. I'm feeling victimized as a queer fat woman, and honestly, does anyone think i need to ever be reminded that i'm any of those things? Things that society constantly tells me as less than everything else?I'm sorry for such a scary & annoying event. You don't deserve such, no one does.

I will commend you for noting they were probably being "racist" & maybe "homophobic" dispite them being a mixed crowd themselves. I may be missing some things but to me the word "sausagefest" doesn't mean they think they're gay, they just think it's a bunch of guys all hovering around a much lesser amount of femmes. This is not meant to discredit your right to be scared, feel offended, or take it as being homophobic (because there may have been details I missed or you didn't share).

It's a shame that was one of their few opportunities to feel powerful. I think it's telling they were waiting for that dog-walking (apparently richer-than-thou) fella was gone. They only targetted you guys because they knew they could intimidate you & you weren't going to get the cops involved. They were leveraging their habits of abuse.

It sucks. Cincy's not getting any better until a few more riots & a lot more flight. Hopefully there will still be something left over to rebuild with afterwards.

REMgirl

25 Jun 2007, 09:14 AM

That's just terrible. I'm sorry that you and your friends had to experience that ugliness and I wonder what impels people to act like that. There's nothing to be gained by it. It's meanness and displaced anger.

Don't let them drag you down. You are smart, funny, and beautiful. Our misguided society seems to think that looks are the most important thing about a person, but we should know better. You have value, a place in this world, and you give of yourself always. Don't let those morons diminish you!

Remember that they are the losers, not you. :)

Donna

ThomasC

25 Jun 2007, 09:15 AM

Well anyway, they probably had small dicks. :D
Not probably. Definitely. :p :D ;)

Breeze

25 Jun 2007, 09:19 AM

Don't let ANY morons diminish you. Ever.

A little FTFY, but right-on nonetheless.

drougan

25 Jun 2007, 10:44 AM

I'm so glad you're leaving that town.

joebob

25 Jun 2007, 12:20 PM

BigSugar

25 Jun 2007, 12:34 PM

I can see that this was a shitty experience and i fully empathize with with people being called names and ignorant shit like that (in fact, some doofus i was playing softball against recently told me to "go eat a pie", to which i replied "Dude, what do you have against pie!? I like pie.")

and maybe this happens all the time to you where morons yell names and tell you you're not welcome.

but vomiting? i'm thinking you're a little too emotional to be out in the real world if that's the reaction you have to some idiot basically yelling "fatty fatty two by four, can't fit through the kitchen door!" or calling you "gay". i'm guessing that you're proud of being gay, right? then why is it an insult if someone basically is shouting to the world the exact fact you want the world to know??

i wasn't there and can't judge the safety issue, but it doesn't sound like this was anything more than a couple morons, probably drunk, shouting ignorant stuff to harrass you. Having been in fights and having been in some very unsafe situations (some of my own doing:), what you described wasn't very scary or threatening. in fact, it sounds like you were scared of this guy before they did anything simply by the fact that he was sitting alone in the park and "staring at you". ooooooooohhhhhhhh.......i'm shaking. some black guy was in a park staring at me. i may vomit.

that being said, it sucks that your evening was ruined and you tossed up some good ice cream as a result. but denegrating an entire city b/c of a couple of jackasses.....that's just dumb. but if you have to go somewhere, might i recommend Seattle.......my gay sister only gets dumb stuff shouted at her in public about once or twice a year by dumbasses.....soooooo much more advanced than this backwater.

DaHood

25 Jun 2007, 01:05 PM

I don't know what the hell to say about this. That's just a shitty thing to do to anyone. So an evening was ruined and that's horrible. Thank all that is good that you and your friends are okay.

patio

25 Jun 2007, 01:19 PM

(k-cal is my girlfriend's nickname.)

Is her nickname K-cal like Kcal, short of kilocalories the unit of measurement of energy, like she has a lot of energy?? If so that would be freakin awesome.
And yea that sucks that happened to you.

weezer6

25 Jun 2007, 01:45 PM

it's not cool for folks to shout shitty stuff to you when you're out having fun. it also sounds like you might have suffered needlessly from the actions of others, besides the folks yelling at you.

i'm not sure about the cincinnati area, but fact of the matter, in dayton, the people hanging out at parks after dark were many times there for some extracurricular activity in the car, sometimes with money being exchanged. and generally guy with guy action. if you rolled up with rainbow stickers on the back of your car, you might have been mistakenly associated with those i'm referring to. still doesn't make it right, though.

when you first started your story, i actually thought the guy just sitting in his car was there for some illegal activity.

personally, i never really realized parks were hotspots for the activity mentioned above, until i started mountainbiking more. i'd go out to caesar creek at 7:30 on a winter's morning, and guys would be driving around the parking lot very slow, parking, and never getting out and actually going into the park.

weeone

25 Jun 2007, 01:57 PM

I don't really know you, of course, but frankly I think that you're a classy woman. Just remember that you are the shit. Jerky people have no right to be in your conscious. Forget them.

wombat18

25 Jun 2007, 02:02 PM

personally, i never really realized parks were hotspots for the activity mentioned above, until i started mountainbiking more. i'd go out to caesar creek at 7:30 on a winter's morning, and guys would be driving around the parking lot very slow, parking, and never getting out and actually going into the park.

They're called predators. And everyone who visits the park is considered fair game.

It's time to take back our public spaces. These are the foundations of our democracy, where everyone is welcome (regardless of income, political or religious belief), where people interact with one another, and where free speech is still free (try giving a political speech in the mall someday, as you'll get escorted out faster than you can say F*&% Bush/Hillary!).

Everyone should feel safe in public spaces. Anything less is a failure of our society. Nobody should tolerate the abuse that Epeol. has just faced.

Floozy

25 Jun 2007, 02:09 PM

I'm very sorry to hear this happened to you. I'm sure at the time it was frightening. But leaving Cincinnati doesn't mean you'll never be harassed or discriminated against in the future. We don't hold an exclusive license on such nonsense here, I'm afraid. Anywhere you go you will find ignorance and anger in people who enjoy lashing out at others... big town, small town, Vermont to Cali, mean, bigoted people are everywhere. Got to hold your chin up and not let words intimidate you.

OldManIndieKid

25 Jun 2007, 02:09 PM

epeolatry,

Just like all the other sensible boarders who have posted their sympathy in this thread, I concur. Regardless of why you were harassed, it is always pure bullshit when some dumb fuck(s) decide to stick their nose in and cause trouble.

Not to hijack or diminish your experience, but I had a couple of public harassment situations happen to me as well.

One was when my family was walking from Rock Bottom on Fountain Square up to the Cincinnati Public library in downtown Cincy for my little sister's ballet performance. I'm sure we looked like the epitome of "whitebread suburbia" and that made us easy targets. We were all wearing shirt/tie/jackets/dresses/etc. So this group of young black creeps (I think there were four of them), comes up to us, surrounds us and skips along beside us singing "we are, we are, white people". Nothing really menacing, but they basically invaded our personal space for about 7 or 8 city blocks and made us uncomfortable as to what they may do next.

The second was when I was visiting my brother (who is not gay), but does live in the Lakeview neighborhood of Chicago. Lakeview is affectionately (or not) referred to as BoysTown because of the high gay population of residents and nightlife activity that can be found there. So my brother and I were walking home to his condo from dinner, and two scraggly looking white trash lookin' rednecks in a hooptie of a van pulled up to us at the curb, stopped and yelled out the window something to the effect of "why don't you fags burn in hell". Well, I was offended not for me because they thought we were gay and we weren't. But I was offended for the gltb folks who do live and play in that neighborhood and have to put up with this kind of shit everyday. And I was pissed that there are morons in the world who feel the need to harass others. And I was pissed that I can't even walk home from dinner without being harassed for any reason, regardless of my color/religion/sexuality/etc.

Again, sorry for the hijack. But I wanted to let you know that I can sympathize, and unfortuantely, this kind of shit goes on all over the country everyday (but of course, you are probably painfully aware of that). Here's hoping you find some additional peace and enjoyment when you move to the land of a thousand lakes. :D

-Ed

OldManIndieKid

25 Jun 2007, 02:11 PM

Everyone should feel safe in public spaces. Anything less is a failure of our society. Nobody should tolerate the abuse that Epeol. has just faced.AMEN! Well said, my friend.

joebob

25 Jun 2007, 02:12 PM

Cincinnati's fucked. It's the only place I can imagine where the Vice Mayor himself can be assaulted - multiple times - on the streets of his own neighborhood.

Duemellon

25 Jun 2007, 02:19 PM

It's time to take back our public spaces. These are the foundations of our democracy, where everyone is welcome (regardless of income, political or religious belief), where people interact with one another, and where free speech is still free (try giving a political speech in the mall someday, as you'll get escorted out faster than you can say F*&% Bush/Hillary!).We fear more now. When you fear, you hide. When you hide, those who have fear (or more motivation to go out) fill in that void.

Make us less afraid, w18, & we'll all be there, holding hands, singing Guess Who songs about "Share the Land", & swapping brownie recepies.

ICONOCLAST420

25 Jun 2007, 02:54 PM

Some people make stupidity a way of life, you just happened to come across some of them. Calling the cops would have been a good idea, if for no other reason than for the officer to run their info, and if they were on parole or probation any contact with law enforcement would have been considered a violation.

and then the black guy yelled something about "hooking up with the big girl sometime."

Totally uncalled for.

jneale

25 Jun 2007, 03:44 PM

urban cincinnati is a complete mess

i really don't think the city will ever recover, i hate going down there because you've got to deal with so much thug behavior

i never thought i'd be like this - but i'm happy in the burbs

Unrequited

25 Jun 2007, 04:14 PM

You are going to run into creeps/thugs in many urban environments, not just Cincinnati. My wife had some racial epithets hurled her way when she was leaving The Comet with a friend a few months ago. You just have to watch yourself.

After thinking about this, it's sad but true. Her only mistake was going to a park in that part of town after dark. Even in booming cities like NYC and Chicago you have to use caution in public parks after hours. They do tend to be a magnet for illicit activity and dirtbags.

ICONOCLAST420

25 Jun 2007, 04:22 PM

urban cincinnati is a complete mess

i really don't think the city will ever recover, i hate going down there because you've got to deal with so much thug behavior.

Most of those people would be in jail if not for the overcrowding. Instead of building a new jail maybe Cincinnati should steal some ideas from this guy (http://woxy.com/boards/showpost.php?p=421563&postcount=1) and that would solve a lot of problems.

Sofa King

25 Jun 2007, 04:25 PM

urban cincinnati is a complete mess

i really don't think the city will ever recover..

It was worse in the 70s...

It recovered though.. actually, it was voted the "Most Liveable City" in North America by Places Rated Almanac in 1994. It still remains in the top 30.

It can recover. It just revolves, like many other cities, for better or worse.

drougan

25 Jun 2007, 04:31 PM

Her only mistake was going to a park in that part of town after dark. Even in booming cities like NYC and Chicago you have to use caution in public parks after hours. They do tend to be a magnet for illicit activity and dirtbags.

I believe the general stipulation is that you don't go there ALONE.

Unrequited

25 Jun 2007, 04:33 PM

I believe the general stipulation is that you don't go there ALONE.

Considering the amount of guns on the street today, you're not even safe with company, unless you're all packing heat.

jneale

25 Jun 2007, 04:41 PM

It was worse in the 70s...
I don't know about that....

my dad worked for cincinnati bell in big parts of the city - he'd get tickets for all kinds of stuff.....

we spent lots time downtown (and that was before 275 & it took some time getting there from Loveland) - shopping on the weekend or seeing what ever was traveling through town - Christmas was always a HUGE deal getting to go see the windows & displays

We spent tons of time down there & I don't recall one problem. Yeah - we were always with a parent - but we spent so much time - when ever anyone would come in from out of town we'd get in the car & make a day of it - hitting all the museums & usually ended the day eating somewhere.

There is NO WAY I'd take a kid downtown now & walk around.

frizgolf

25 Jun 2007, 04:51 PM

I hope you'll consider sending this story to a local rag (Beacon, CityBeat...). It's too often the case that the media hides the everyday types of bullshit produced in every corner of our city, when everyone knows about the bullshit, makes their decisions from the influence of the bullshit, forms their opinions on the sources of the bullshit, and then ignores the bullshit themselves. A story like this can go a long way to show people exactly what the costs can be for our city: the desire of decent people to leave our city.
Do it.

Well anyway, they probably had small dicks. :D
What he said.

Remember that they are the losers, not you. :)

Correct.

personally, i never really realized parks were hotspots for the activity mentioned above, until i started mountainbiking more. i'd go out to caesar creek at 7:30 on a winter's morning, and guys would be driving around the parking lot very slow, parking, and never getting out and actually going into the park.
That's why Cincinnati Parks were so open to having a disc golf course installed in Mt. Airy Forest. More feet beating in the park, less illicit behavior.

Unrequited

25 Jun 2007, 04:51 PM

There is NO WAY I'd take a kid downtown now & walk around.

It's not that bad. Believe me, Cincinnati has a ton of problems and lots of crime, and downtown is no paradise (don't get me started on the 40+million they wasted on Fountain Square) but my wife and I spend a lot of time downtown and we have never had any problems. I have a good friend who takes his two boys, age 7 and 12, downtown all the time. Now, there might not be much to do, but that's another story.

ICONOCLAST420

25 Jun 2007, 04:58 PM

i'm not sure about the cincinnati area, but fact of the matter, in dayton, the people hanging out at parks after dark were many times there for some extracurricular activity in the car, sometimes with money being exchanged. and generally guy with guy action. if you rolled up with rainbow stickers on the back of your car, you might have been mistakenly associated with those i'm referring to. still doesn't make it right, though.

When Mike Turner cracked down on the adult bookstores this activity shifted to the parks, some of those busted in stings include the Troy High School band director, a catholic priest, and a episcopal minister from Springboro was busted twice.

personally, i never really realized parks were hotspots for the activity mentioned above, until i started mountainbiking more. i'd go out to caesar creek at 7:30 on a winter's morning, and guys would be driving around the parking lot very slow, parking, and never getting out and actually going into the park.

50 Springs is a notorious cruising area, there are stings there all the time.

jneale

25 Jun 2007, 04:58 PM

I had to be downtown today on Court St. for a worker's comp hearing.

It might not be that bad and you can argue that people going to court in downtown might not be the most representative of a cultured downtown...

but the stuff that went on on the street during a short post hearing conversation with our lawyer made me glad I don't have to walk through that stuff every day.

ICONOCLAST420

25 Jun 2007, 05:02 PM

That's why Cincinnati Parks were so open to having a disc golf course installed in Mt. Airy Forest. More feet beating in the park, less illicit behavior.

Mt. Airy Forest and Burnett Woods are "exclusion zones" once someone is busted for cruising there, they are not allowed to ever go back.

weezer6

25 Jun 2007, 05:04 PM

50 Springs is a notorious cruising area, there are stings there all the time.

that's the place. we'd get there early to ride the cross country ski trail, before the ground thawed out and got muddy, and there would be 3 cars just sitting there idling, down on one end of the parking lot.

dudes were getting busted at john bryan back in the 80's, also.

The_Deacon

25 Jun 2007, 05:31 PM

I hate thug ass losers. Sorry to hear this happened to you.

It pisses me off that this city has such a bad rep for fuck head thugs. It just takes away from all the very cool folks that call Cincinnati home, including me.

If I was there, I would have went off. Sure, it might have got me shot or something, but there is no way I would hold back. That is why I make every effort to never put myself in those positions. I have a very low tolerance for ignorance.

Duemellon

25 Jun 2007, 06:25 PM

It recovered though.. actually, it was voted the "Most Liveable City" in North America by Places Rated Almanac in 1994. It still remains in the top 30."most Liveable City"...for middle-class & richer conservative-leaning White couples with children.

Duemellon

25 Jun 2007, 06:30 PM

It's quirky that the very thing that could save those spots are the very things that it's driving away.Want to reduce crime in a park? Go down to the park where there is crime in mass & stay there all night.

Want to reduce crime downtown? Go downtown at night with your kid(s) until you smother them.Most lingering criminal elements are mix between weeds and roaches:If something good was going on there (aka: grass growing) it can't root. One of the best ways to prevent weeds is to grow grass there instead.

Roaches like the dark. Shine a light on them & they run.However, that's the question isn't it? You'd have to show up en masse, repeatedly, until it's taken back. But what's critical mass? Who'll be the 1st ones? Who's gonna risk getting there without the support needed?

So everyone who's saying they aren't going to go downtown/out because of the crime at night should really come together for the next 10 years straight every night until it catches on. I vote, we start tonight!!

classicgrrl

25 Jun 2007, 07:26 PM

Damn.

Write your story to the Enquierer. With all this yappin about creative class flight - my guess is they would print it.

That really sucks and Sug - she vomited because she was SCARED. It's a normal (NOT EMOTIONAL) bodily reaction to having chemical levels up that high.

I pray you are NEVER that frightened. I was as a kid and I know what that feels like.

Don't let the bastards get you down Becca....

frizgolf

25 Jun 2007, 08:15 PM

(don't get me started on the 40+million they wasted on Fountain Square)
A project that is unfinished yet, and was funded with mostly private money...
Kinda jumping the gun, are we?
Mt. Airy Forest and Burnett Woods are "exclusion zones" once someone is busted for cruising there, they are not allowed to ever go back.
Both have disc golf courses. Coincidence? ;)

sparkie

25 Jun 2007, 08:35 PM

We fear more now. When you fear, you hide. When you hide, those who have fear (or more motivation to go out) fill in that void.

Make us less afraid, w18, & we'll all be there, holding hands, singing Guess Who songs about "Share the Land", & swapping brownie recepies.

it's not the sole job of wombat or you or myself. we should all step up and keep an eye out for our brothers and sisters when stuff goes really, really wrong. People are too focused on only them and theirs and see others wronged and never step up. people get away with so much (like our government) because no one ever checks them. and if theres anything this country needs these days is some good ass checking, both visually and physically.[/rant]

yvette7ica

25 Jun 2007, 08:40 PM

Personally, I'm pretty sick of dealing with trash in Cincinnati of all sorts of shapes, sizes and colors. It sounds harsh, but your economic situation, ethnicity, or eduction level is no excuse for rude and intimidating behavior like that. All it does is bite you in the ass by driving economy away from your neighborhood and perpetuate stereotypes.

We went to Atlanta over a month ago and were amazed by how diverse and friendly it was. I'm sure it has it's bad areas, but we had a great experience. It made perfect sense why we know several people that would be classified as minorities who want to live there as opposed to dealing with the thugs and homophobes that permiate all urban areas of Cincinnati.

We had an instance on Saturday night when the bar was closing and some thug just walking down the street starting felt the need to try and start a fight with anyone and everyone leaving the bar. We finally had to call the cops after the guy had made several threats. This doesn't happen every week, but stuff like this happens often enough to be an issue.

sparkie

25 Jun 2007, 08:48 PM

We went to Atlanta over a month ago and were amazed by how diverse and friendly it was. I'm sure it has it's bad areas, but we had a great experience. It made perfect sense why we know several people that would be classified as minorities who want to live there as opposed to dealing with the thugs and homophobes that permiate all urban areas of Cincinnati.

Atlanta proper is really not bad, a large diver well integrated city, sure there are bad areas but all places no matter their size have that stigma. The strange parts of GA are further out of the ATL hub where you run into the good ole' boys of the deep south.

Shlep

26 Jun 2007, 01:33 AM

That just sucks, Becca....I'm an educated man, but I find myself unable to find the words.

k-cal went & picked up a delicious italian meal from pompilio's. i was at home and my friend Daniel called...he had a car full of gay men and was headed to cinci.

Am I the only one who thinks these two lines are, quite simply, 100% pure highest-quality unintentional comedy frickin' gold?

I swear, this was the first thing that popped into my head:

<talking on the phone> Yeah...uh huh...oh? Oh, really? Is that *SO*?! Well then all I got to say, sister, is that you best stand the fuck by, 'cuz I have a car full of gay men and goddamit we are COMING TO CINCY!!!" <slams down phone> So then...any of you bitches wanna explain to me why you're still here? Jesus H. Christ, what's it gonna take, what's it gonna take...front-row tickets to see Streisand?! LET'S ROLL, BOYS!!!"

Then there was this:

http://img.search.com/thumb/f/fc/Wargames_View_at_NORAD.png/350px-Wargames_View_at_NORAD.png

http://www-public.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de/~ritterd/wargames/war6.jpg

"Mr. President? Yes sir, General Beringer here...sorry to wake you, sir, but we have situation you need to be advised of. About 90 minutes ago, one of our early-warning stations in Ohio spotted something on I-75 moving about 70 miles on a northbound trajectory. We only just now confirmed was a car full of gay men, and they're heading to Cincinnati. Yes sir...uh huh...yes, that's correct. Yes sir. Yes, "gay" sir...no sir, not like that...yes, that's it. We estimate arrival at there objective in about 45 minutes. How are we calling the plays on this? Yes sir, we already scrambled the bombers, and they are en route..."

Yeah, I'm silly. :D Now shifting to "serious" mode...

...nope, still speechless. This just sucks. :( :( :(

Though I did feel compelled to make an observation. Before I do, allow me to take a moment and clarify a couple of things...I think you're a wonderful person, a kind, caring, and genuinely compassionate gal for whom nothing but good feelings and positive stuff dwells in my heart. So please don't hate me if I'm being a wee bit too blunt here...

They were most likely (based on assumptions), not rich people. People who are treated like shit every day for their race, socio-economic position, and they were made to feel powerful because they were able to intimidate us. They should be able to find power in other places in the world, but racism/capitalism/etc have made it impossible for that to happen.

Sorry, kiddo...but that's crap. Being poor doesn't give anyone license or a free pass to do anything except not have money, while a hateful, mean-spirited, nasty, ugly, bigoted asshole who barely gets by sweeping parking lots and emptying shit-cans for a buck is the same sort of hateful, mean-spirited, nasty, ugly, bigoted asshole as the guy who owns the lot.

I gather you're not "rich," at least in the spoiled American sense we take for granted. You're also a woman a "plus size" one at that), a Jew and a lesbian all at once. I know from being around here that you're regularly subjected uncharitable treatment from others ranging from cold, disapproving stares to outright hostility for any one or a combination of these factors. Most recently, you were summarily made the target of uncloaked hateful shit simply because you're a lesbian while also not being particularly thin, and for compounding this trespass by having the temerity to be sitting down, in public, *TOTALLY* out in the open in full view of any passers-by who, thanks to your galling, narcissistic display-- were forced to acknowledge the existence of women who would rather sleep with other women.

Yet, I'll bet you won't be going around spewing hate and bile at others.

Artpunchehorse

26 Jun 2007, 06:43 PM

I like how you kept pointing out he was black. So really you are doing the same thing he did to you. Why does skin color matter?

Stop talking about it, and just move already. It's not that hard

classicgrrl

26 Jun 2007, 08:44 PM

Kruschev

26 Jun 2007, 09:17 PM

Make us less afraid, w18, & we'll all be there, holding hands, singing Guess Who songs about "Share the Land", & swapping brownie recepies.

I love this Duemellon. Sucks though girl. Nobody deserves that but you won't escape it. Keep ya head up. If some shit like this happens again, just wear a big smile and give your girl a big fat kiss on the lips! :D

PeterABnny

27 Jun 2007, 12:20 PM

Personally, I'm pretty sick of dealing with trash in Cincinnati of all sorts of shapes, sizes and colors. It sounds harsh, but your economic situation, ethnicity, or eduction level is no excuse for rude and intimidating behavior like that. All it does is bite you in the ass by driving economy away from your neighborhood and perpetuate stereotypes.

Amen to that!

Man, so sorry to hear about this, Ep! It's times like this that makes me ashamed to call Cinci home. :mad: :( Please tell your friends how much we regret what happened, and that we're all appalled by it.

Personally I think you should file a police report, as well as tell your story to the media. This kind of assinine ignorance - which terrorized you, not simply scared you - can not or should not just be swept under the rug or forgotten about. If your story gives this town another black eye well, so be it. It derserved it.

Unrequited

27 Jun 2007, 12:32 PM

I doubt any local media outlet would be interested in this story. Sadly, it happens every day throughout the city (and other cities as well).

Buzzstein

27 Jun 2007, 03:13 PM

I like how you kept pointing out he was black. So really you are doing the same thing he did to you. Why does skin color matter?

Stop talking about it, and just move already. It's not that hard

Really now? She is doing the same thing he did to her? She is yelling epithets and intimidating him? Where did you see this? epeolatry was simply describing the man. I don't believe she was being racist or even prejudiced. And what do you mean "Stop talking about it..."? She made exactly one post about the issue. It's not like she is going on and on about it. :confused:

Shlep

27 Jun 2007, 04:01 PM

I like how you kept pointing out he was black. So really you are doing the same thing he did to you. Why does skin color matter?

Well, all except for the part where epeolatry and her crew spotted them quietly relaxing and minding their own business and decided, wholly apropo of nothing, to begin loudly hurling pointedly bigoted and hateful shit in their direction having to do with things like basketball, malt liquor, and illegitimacy, perhaps followed by declaring her desire to lay to rest nagging questions regarding previous claims to the effect that were she to "go black," her decision to do so would be attended by a corresponding disinclination to"go back," as it were.

And let's not forget making broad statements to the effect that by simply being where she was, she was putting herself and her well-being in jeopardy and would be wise to take care to avoid doing so again in the future.

Regarding the "skin color" thing, I find it annoying when people sometimes, when sharing some story or anecdote keep mentioning the race and/or ethnicity of people in said story as thought I, knowing full well how "they" act or behave, can draw inferences. She mentioned that a black guy was black, as was a black girl, and that a white guy was white, at the she herself was a "queer fat woman."

Stop talking about it, and just move already. It's not that hard

"CINCINNATI: LOVE IT OR LEAVE, YOU HOMOS!!!"

I smell a gross of bumper stickers in the near future. All you Woxians need to hurry up and reserve yours before they're gone.

epeolatry

08 Jul 2007, 10:57 AM

I've been busy and meaning to respond to all of the responses in this thread... sorry if it's kind of old news by now, but i think the discussion is still relevant.

1. Thank you for all of the kind words of love & support!!-- so many of them from people i have never even met. I know that Cincinnati isn't full of hate-- the people I have met through this community prove that all the time. [And I realize that not everyone who replied is from Greater Cinci, but I mean the love & openness of the woxy folks i've spent time w/ offline.]

2. There were a few points I wanted to respond directly to. Big Sug, you make a good point about the vomiting. And Classic spoke the truth-- it was merely a physical reaction to fear & being very upset. Some people cry, some people scream, some people start fights. When I'm really terrified or upset, I puke. It doesn't happen much, but it does happen. When I broke up w/ my previous gf, Anna, I puked a lot. It was kind of a drawn out break up with a lot of pretty harsh, intense conversations.

3. I was scared & upset enough to puke because the tenor of the event was frightening. I've put up w/ other street harassment before that wasn't scary-- it was just annoying. Like the elderly man on Main St. who asked my current gf and I if we were going to go on LICKING EACH OTHER FOREVER. Kind of funny, kind of annoying. We answered "yea, we hope so!" I wasn't afraid of him. He was friendly about it. Last night when someone yelled "Faggots!" at a bunch of us (mixed gender & sexual orientations) out of a car in Northside, it was annoying, but I wasn't scared. This event in the park was scary because they were menacing. They made physical gestures w/ their fists. We didn't know if they had guns. The tone of voice was not "we're better than you homos" it was "we fucking hate you and don't want you in our town/park/etc". They blocked the exit w/ their car and continued to shout at us.

4. We didn't call the cops because neither we, nor the menacers, should have been in the closed park. I've known queer folks who have tried to report things to the police only to be treated as though they deserved whatever happened to them (just as I've known people of color, poor people, women, etc... who have been victim-blamed by police.) At that point, we just wanted to go home.

5. Artpunchorse, I mentioned that one of the men was a person of color (the 2nd one was white) because it informed the gut reaction and later thoughts I had as I was processing the event. It's relevant because even though I was afraid of him, I was able to see how institutionalized racism has probably impacted his life, as institutionalized heterosexism has affected mine. In processing the event, it helped me humanize this person I was afraid of, but I also had to call myself out on going quickly to the "scary black man" place in my brain, as I have been raised like all white people w/ privilege and racist ideas. Some of the racism I was raised w/ wasn't even subtle-- I grew up in Forest Park and despite having friends who were people of color (African-American, Indian, Vietnamese), I heard a lot of sideways comments about black people. It takes a lifetime to unlearn the racism, sexism, and all of the other ISMs we're taught by people, media, & society.

frizgolf

08 Jul 2007, 11:12 AM

As to your fourth point, I can see how you were reluctant to call police. As a disc golfer trying to get courses installed in city parks, the park directors will often refer to 'illicit activities' as being among undesirable elements they want curbed by introducing more foot traffic to their parks, with the inference of illicit being quite transparent in meaning.
I live for the day they treat all fears and complaints equally without dismissing them as somehow 'deserved'.

epeolatry

08 Jul 2007, 11:14 AM

6. I don't HATE Cincinnati, Ohio! I've lived here for 25 out of almost-30 years. I grew up in Forest Park, but went to school in Greenhills. I lived in Athens, OH for a year, then transferred to UC and lived on campus. I lived in an apartment in Westwood for six months, then moved back to Clifton for the following several years, spending time on Rohs St (2 years), Graham St (all the way at the end of Ohio), and Euclid (Corryville-- one house from the corner of Euclid/University). When I left for grad school, I spent two years in Athens, OH and then two years in Oberlin, OH. But when I moved back to Cinci, I came back to Clifton, living in a house on Howell (ludlow area) until we moved into our apartment up here on Jefferson. My point? I love this neighborhood. I love Clifton, Clifton Heights, University Heights, Fairview, Ludlow, Corryville, all of it. It has it's problems, but I have always enjoyed more about living in this area than the things I don't like.

My entire family lives here, with the exception of two cousins who live in Los Angeles. My parents, paternal grandparents, five pairs of aunts/uncles, and a ton of cousins and their spouses/children. I love all of these people, and there are a million things I love about the city.

But I'm also ready to find out what life is like outside of Ohio, and events like this one make me only want to hurry it up a little bit. I've long had the goal of moving out of Ohio before I turn 30, and I'm going to do it (I'll be 30 in September).

7. I don't judge all citizens of Cincinnati based on this event. It hurts me way deep down inside to feel this kind of pain and frustration around my hometown. The fact is, too many of my lgbt friends have similar stories about harassment and threatening behavior. I believe, based on the testimony of our many lgbt friends in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area, that these sorts of issues will be fewer in that area, and it's also an attractive destination for k-cal & i to move because her family lives there. We'll have a support network when we move, made up of her family & friends, all people who have been incredibly warm and welcoming towards me.

Besides, living in MSP, I'll be able to listen to Barb on The Current every morning and hang out w/ The Sheck, Avatar of Vishnu, and other awesome folks. :)

We were planning to move when this happened. We've been planning to move for almost a year.

8. to answer Patio's question about my gf's nickname, her first name is kate and her last name is the same as dirty harry (or Tommy Boy, whichever you prefer), so k-cal is one of her many nicknames. :) but your scientific definition did make me laugh.

okay, i gotta shut up now. going to deliver a birthday card to grandma. she's turning 88 on tuesday!

twentyshots

08 Jul 2007, 12:03 PM

there are low lifes everywhere, regardless of advancement of culture.
a friend of mine was recently jumped in brooklyn, assumed to be polish.he wasn't even robbed.......just punched by a gang of italian kids who didn't even know what they were mad about.

cincinnati can be a little behind the times but i am glad you spent so long here- it needs people like you. it may go fighting and screaming into the future......but it will eventually go.

;)

epeolatry

08 Jul 2007, 03:55 PM

cincinnati can be a little behind the times but i am glad you spent so long here- it needs people like you. it may go fighting and screaming into the future......but it will eventually go.

;)

My mom often says "how can you complain about the climate here if you're not willing to stay and fight?"

and i used to respond that I was doing my best... but now I'm tired and want to have a life, not just fight.

dannyboy

08 Jul 2007, 04:40 PM

For a while, I thought that somehow individuals, cultures, and societies would grow and evolve and get past all of the fear and hatred and truly live in peace and harmony with everyone else. I still think that it's possible for some, perhaps even many but ultimately not for all, or even the majority. The thing that makes us humans unique from all other creatures is our ego. No matter how enlightened cultures are, there are still those born that get too attached to their own sense of self, either because of the pleasure it brings, or out of fear, or even because of some sort of disorder. The manifestations of fears within the ego cause the projections, lashings out, and harm caused to others. I think to be born a human being is some sort of lesson that is waiting to be learned. Some get it, some don't. The next great enlightened person of the World may be born today, but also the next great terror of the World may also be born today. All any of us can do is follow the path placed before us and learn from our own life what we were meant to.

twentyshots

08 Jul 2007, 09:32 PM

AmericanScience

09 Jul 2007, 01:48 AM

OK, it's late and I have no idea why I'm up. Well, actually I do.. I had given up caffeine for the last month or two and today had four diet colas for the first time - was with family and could not wake up.. Now I'm paying the price.

But I re-read your first post like four times and cannot figure out what is homophobic about it at all.. Is it "sausagefest"? Like someone said, that's just what it is if there's more dudes than chicks. Was it because he mentioned wanting to be "with" you? I don't get it.

That said, it's a huge personal pet peeve - the term 'pet peeve' doesn't even cut it.. When people for whatever reason have that sociopathic tendency to take a normal civilized situation and turn it on it's end. Like they did to you, or like the other reports in this thread about behavior downtown (following and chanting, etc.). It's disgusting. I've seen it happen, I've had it happen to me. It strips away humanity and can rattle you to the core.

I am a big proponent of bringing back public stockades as punishment for incidents like this. With the world's population exploding like it's been, we need to rewrite the rules of how to get along again, it seems like many lessons are being forgotten.

epeolatry

09 Jul 2007, 02:09 PM

But I re-read your first post like four times and cannot figure out what is homophobic about it at all.. Is it "sausagefest"? Like someone said, that's just what it is if there's more dudes than chicks. Was it because he mentioned wanting to be "with" you? I don't get it.

When I originally wrote down what happened, i was so freaked out that i didn't say everything they said. i also conferred w/ the people i was with, and they were calling the guys fags & shit. i think they thought my gf was a small dude (she's only 5' tall and can pass as young male, especially in the dark--she had on a ballcap & a button down shirt w/ jeans). Sorry that wasn't originally clear.

DaHood

09 Jul 2007, 02:52 PM

Artpunchorse, I mentioned that one of the men was a person of color (the 2nd one was white) because it informed the gut reaction and later thoughts I had as I was processing the event. It's relevant because even though I was afraid of him, I was able to see how institutionalized racism has probably impacted his life, as institutionalized heterosexism has affected mine. In processing the event, it helped me humanize this person I was afraid of, but I also had to call myself out on going quickly to the "scary black man" place in my brain, as I have been raised like all white people w/ privilege and racist ideas. Some of the racism I was raised w/ wasn't even subtle-- I grew up in Forest Park and despite having friends who were people of color (African-American, Indian, Vietnamese), I heard a lot of sideways comments about black people. It takes a lifetime to unlearn the racism, sexism, and all of the other ISMs we're taught by people, media, & society.This is a good response because I think there was a bit of a quickness to jump Art's shit. And while I think that's understandable I also think that there was something there that needed a response.

My thought was that this man himself has been a likely victim of bigotry in his life and that should translate into understanding but as so often happens he chose to inflict a bigotry of his own upon you and your friends. Human nature is often quite ugly.

epeolatry

09 Jul 2007, 07:52 PM

classicgrrl

09 Jul 2007, 07:59 PM

i could have blamed the entire incident on his race, but the other guy participating was white. what was his excuse?

his excuse was that he was born a dumbass.
in fact, that's probably the other's guys excuse too.

They called you names and I think their meaning was probably pretty clear. You weren't afraid/angry because of their color - you were afraid/angry because of their behavior.

I don't care if they are leopard spotted with blue dots - they're both dumbasses! :mad:

classicgrrl

09 Jul 2007, 08:00 PM

It's not that hard

well, thats pretty fucking apparant.

:rolleyes:

DaHood

09 Jul 2007, 08:30 PM

I don't care if they are leopard spotted with blue dots - they're both dumbasses! :mad:Quite !

Marlowe

10 Jul 2007, 05:19 AM

My thought was that this man himself has been a likely victim of bigotry in his life and that should translate into understanding but as so often happens he chose to inflict a bigotry of his own upon you and your friends. Human nature is often quite ugly.
all due respect, i think you really gotta be careful in explaining or excusing behavior based upon one's race. when we all start playing sociologist, you can very quickly talk yourself into a position where you excuse the inexcusable. and, holding other people to lower standards because of their race is a form of bigotry too.

DaHood

10 Jul 2007, 05:46 AM

all due respect, i think you really gotta be careful in explaining or excusing behavior based upon one's race. when we all start playing sociologist, you can very quickly talk yourself into a position where you excuse the inexcusable. and, holding other people to lower standards because of their race is a form of bigotry too.I'm not trying to explain or excuse anything, it was just a thought. Quite the opposite. He is a dirtbag.

epeolatry

10 Jul 2007, 10:37 AM

I didn't think it was fair for everyone to jump Art's shit-- I don't think he was being snotty about his question-- it was a fair question. Times when our brains jump to thoughts we wouldn't normally have (fear, anger) about other races, etc...are huge teachable moments. i could have blamed the entire incident on his race, but the other guy participating was white. what was his excuse?

Oh wait. I went back and read Art's comment again.

I like how you kept pointing out he was black. So really you are doing the same thing he did to you. Why does skin color matter?

Stop talking about it, and just move already. It's not that hard

Hmm... (to quote my friend Buzz...)

Actually, no. I won't stop talking about it. Talking about a scary experience is how I, and lots of other people, get through the scary experience. And it is hard-- it's hard to get yelled at on the street at least once a week. It's hard not to have any fucking rights as a citizen. it's hard that people think they can judge and threaten me & my friends because we're different. it's hard that my employer doesn't offer domestic partner benefits. it's hard that as a fat person, people assume i'm lazy (i'm not) and i have to go to special stores to buy clothes.

but yea, there are hard things for everyone. but if i don't talk about the things that are hard for me, i get bogged down in them and want to hide in my bed.

i'm not trying to play the "being gay is harder than other stuff" card, because i don't believe in a hierarchy of oppression. i think all oppression is fucked up and shitty, but i want to say that when something makes fun of other groups of people, someone usually speaks up and says that's not cool. i think people are more likely to say "don't use the n-bomb" or "don't call people retarded" than they are to call out someone who uses gay in a derogatory way. we gay folk are one of the last groups that it's okay to harass and ridicule and threaten because we have no protection-- almost no legal rights in most parts of the country & the world.

I said that one of the men was black because he was. Just as I identified the other guy as white-- it informed the way I responded to the incident.

Am I racist? Yes, I am. I'm a white person who was raised in a racist city in a racist country in a racist world. I have white privilege, but I know that I do and have been working to call myself out when I have a racist thought or feeling, deconstructing those responses to see the bigger picture, and i work to educate others about that privilege.

DaHood

10 Jul 2007, 05:07 PM

Oh wait. I went back and read Art's comment again.Hence, why I said people where quick to jump Art's shit but it is understandable.

Actually, no. I won't stop talking about it.Nor should you.

Talking about a scary experience is how I, and lots of other people, get through the scary experience. And it is hard-- it's hard to get yelled at on the street at least once a week. It's hard not to have any fucking rights as a citizen. it's hard that people think they can judge and threaten me & my friends because we're different. it's hard that my employer doesn't offer domestic partner benefits. it's hard that as a fat person, people assume i'm lazy (i'm not) and i have to go to special stores to buy clothes.

but yea, there are hard things for everyone. but if i don't talk about the things that are hard for me, i get bogged down in them and want to hide in my bed.

i'm not trying to play the "being gay is harder than other stuff" card, because i don't believe in a hierarchy of oppression. i think all oppression is fucked up and shitty, but i want to say that when something makes fun of other groups of people, someone usually speaks up and says that's not cool. i think people are more likely to say "don't use the n-bomb" or "don't call people retarded" than they are to call out someone who uses gay in a derogatory way. we gay folk are one of the last groups that it's okay to harass and ridicule and threaten because we have no protection-- almost no legal rights in most parts of the country & the world.

I said that one of the men was black because he was. Just as I identified the other guy as white-- it informed the way I responded to the incident.

Am I racist? Yes, I am. I'm a white person who was raised in a racist city in a racist country in a racist world. I have white privilege, but I know that I do and have been working to call myself out when I have a racist thought or feeling, deconstructing those responses to see the bigger picture, and i work to educate others about that privilege.You're being honest. I respect that. It's one of your many loveable qualities. :cool: