What if... (1783AD, Haiti)

[Duemellon]

Okay, the scenerio:

For whatever reason, you have been selected to go back in time (1-way trip) to 1783AD in Haiti. The only things you can transport are things you can carry. You are the only person going and there's no coming back. You will live out the rest of your years from that point on.

What do you take with you? What do you plan on doing? Who do you see? Where do you go? What do think? How do you prepare?

etc.

[akip]

there is NO way i'd go to haiti in 1783. if forced, i'd take a cyanide capsule.

[Breeze]

Why that time, and why there?

[akip]

Why that time, and why there?

c'est avant la revolution!

[Breeze]

c'est avant la revolution!

Yes, but why not St. Petersburg in 1905?

Surely there's some reason for choosing "la revolution."

[akip]

Yes, but why not St. Petersburg in 1905?


'cause it's a black slaves v. white slaveowners revolution.

obviously i'm taking an "educated" guess here before duemellon responds.

[akip]

since nobody's talking, i'll add that i wouldn't want to be in haiti before 1791 'cause the french were hideously abusive of their slaves and it would be sickening to witness all that. once the uprising got started, you were in big trouble as a white person. anybody who managed to survived till the end got executed. either way, if you were a woman, chances are you'd have to watch your children die first, probably horribly. the blacks paid the french back in kind.

[drougan]

Hmm...I guess a gallon of water, some sea charts, a compass, and an intent to commandeer the next vessel I could find and get off that island.

I suppose if I were fluent in 18th century French and/or black my strategy might lean more towards preventing death and destruction, But given my situation, I'd opt for self preservation.

[akip]

Hmm...I guess a gallon of water, some sea charts, a compass, and an intent to commandeer the next vessel I could find and get off that island.

I suppose if I were fluent in 18th century French and/or black my strategy might lean more towards preventing death and destruction, But given my situation, I'd opt for self preservation.

i doubt any one person, black or white, could've stopped anything.

[Duemellon]

For those who were thinking there was some degree of overtones or interest in having a racial debate, it's not. I've done this before. I chose it because the situation is still tense & such, yet somewhat obscure.

I did the same with 900 AD in this thread (http://new.woxy.com/boards/showthread.php?t=40711) and enjoyed the discussion.

So the question still is that, given what we know is going on, what would you take & do? You can be selfish or whatever. It's not so much a morality play.

[akip]

i don't think this situation functions as well for a hypothetical as the one, say, in medieval france you came up with----because if you were white and didn't get off the island, you died. it's like asking what you'd take on a plane that was going to crash. a parachute.

[Duemellon]

i don't think this situation functions as well for a hypothetical as the one, say, in medieval france you came up with----because if you were white and didn't get off the island, you died. it's like asking what you'd take on a plane that was going to crash. a parachute.A, but that's part of the thing as well. You know it's going to happen, you know it's a hotspot. We have technology & things here which can help you escape, avoid, or change results. You could always just try to get off the island & spend your energies taking over Hawaii or enjoying the rugged Western US.

Sure, getting off Haiti may pose the 1st problem, but it's in that setting you're beginning. You just don't have to stay there.

[1979]

A, but that's part of the thing as well. You know it's going to happen, you know it's a hotspot. We have technology & things here which can help you escape, avoid, or change results. You could always just try to get off the island & spend your energies taking over Hawaii or enjoying the rugged Western US.

Sure, getting off Haiti may pose the 1st problem, but it's in that setting you're beginning. You just don't have to stay there.


It's tough to get off an island with only things on your person. So if I'm allowed to carry gold, I take that - as much as I can carry I suppose. You can buy anything, and at that point, you would want to buy your way off the island.

[akip]

A, but that's part of the thing as well. You know it's going to happen, you know it's a hotspot. We have technology & things here which can help you escape, avoid, or change results. You could always just try to get off the island & spend your energies taking over Hawaii or enjoying the rugged Western US.

Sure, getting off Haiti may pose the 1st problem, but it's in that setting you're beginning. You just don't have to stay there.

i think haiti in 1783 would be an awful place to be 'cause of the hideous cruelty rampant among french colonials. i guess it was great being them if you enjoyed being rich and powerful and cold to suffering. they were raking in the money. but it would be awful to be there watching with a 21st century sensibility and knowing what was going to happen. i'm sure no one would listen if you tried to warn them. i don't think that technology could've stopped the bloodshed. the french didn't deserve to win, really.

so i'd have to say a one-way ship ticket to philadelphia.

[Duemellon]

It's tough to get off an island with only things on your person. So if I'm allowed to carry gold, I take that - as much as I can carry I suppose. You can buy anything, and at that point, you would want to buy your way off the island.ok, so you can get off the island, what do you do in the late 18th century now?so i'd have to say a one-way ship ticket to philadelphia.So, how do you get out of there? Money? & when at Phillie, what do you do then?

[akip]

So, how do you get out of there? Money? & when at Phillie, what do you do then?

money and a ticket could get you off the ship and some sort of food and shelter. as an unattached woman with no contacts whatsoever i'm sure it wouldn't be simple to get a decent life started. did they allow women to buy property back then? if not, perhaps i could find work as a tutor.

but the american revolution would be finished and i would think that philly, as birthplace of independence, would be on a high.

[Duemellon]

Actually I think 900AD France, was much more violent & unpredictable than people gave credit. The feudal system was violently oppressive & absolute, roadways were rife with crime, & suspicions of newcomers was very high.

I guess Haiti, being tempestuous at the time, was a hot spot to land in, but there's still the rest of the world to get to... if you can escape.

[1979]

ok, so you can get off the island, what do you do in the late 18th century now?

Well, if I am aware that I am forced to go back in time, I guess the best option, besides money, would be to take a history book. So I would grab the most comprehensive history text I could find. Use that knowledge to my advantage.

As for what I would do? Probably need to find a way to make money. A bit to early to try and get in on the railroads, so guess it depends on how much money I have on me to start with. Or perhaps it isn't. Go team up with Watt, see if I can't bump up the time line a bit to make my money there. Then, sit back, and live the life of luxury.


But of course, it wouldn't be that easy.

[akip]

if i could buy property, perhaps i'd start a boarding house in philadelphia. there'd be lots of interesting people milling about and conversation over dinner would be fantastic.

[miami2112]

nah, late 1700's. head west. to kentucky with a history book. insert yourself in any of the historical battles and become a legend.

i did that already. my alter name: simon kenton.

[purple_octopus]

I wouldn't go to Haiti, not now and not ever.

[akip]

i definitely would've gone to haiti about a decade ago, but not now. would've stayed at the hotel oloffson.

[Duemellon]

No one's saying a Kevlar vest? I mean, you the money you have to bring anything you can think of available in present day.

[akip]

No one's saying a Kevlar vest?

wouldn't help you from decapitation via machete.

[1979]

wouldn't help you from decapitation via machete.


On a sort of related note - what would happen if you took a medical textbook back in time?




All this talk of textbooks back in time, however, reminds me of only one thing.



http://www.code3.net/uploadedImages/Legendary_Casts/Additional_Pages/ArmyOfDarkness_280p(1).jpg

[Duemellon]

Firearms were well in use & personal armor wasn't invented yet.

1783
American Revolutionary War: Great Britain formally declares that it will cease hostilities with the United States of America.

The Montgolfier brothers publicly demonstrate their montgolfière (hot air balloon) in Annonay, France.

The volcano Laki, in Iceland, begins an eight-month eruption which kills 9350 people and starts a seven-year famine. Eruption causes deaths of livestock when they eat contaminated grass and also widespread crop failure.

all that before June
American Revolutionary War ends: Treaty of Paris - A treaty between the United States and the Kingdom of Great Britain is signed in Paris, ending the war.

Loyalists (to the Brit crown) from New York settle Great Abaco in the Bahamas.

In Haiti around this time
Inspired by the French Revolution, the gens de couleur pressed the colonial government for expanded rights. In October 1790, 350 revolted against the government. On May 15, 1791, the French National Assembly granted political rights to all blacks and mulattoes who had been born free - but did not change the status quo regarding slavery. On August 22, 1791, slaves in the north rose against their masters near Cap-Français (now Cap-Haïtien). This revolution spread rapidly and came under the leadership of Toussaint L'Ouverture. He soon formed alliances with the gens de couleur and the maroons, whose rights had been revoked by the French government in retailiation for the uprising.

Toussaint's armies defeated the French colonial army, but then joined forces with it in 1794, following a decree by the revolutionary French government that abolished slavery. Under Toussaint's command, the Saint-Domingue army then defeated invading Spanish and British forces.

Left to it's own course, the Haitian revolution will finally come to an end 1804, although the general bloodshed of war was over in 1803. Napoleon was aroud in that time as well.

In China, the Qing Dynasty was in full swing with the strengthening of control over all the Chinese provinces.

etc. etc.

There's lots of stuff going on before & after this you could take advantage of. & some people & places you might want to avoid that you may have thought were safe.

France was in disarry with it's own revolution against Louis XVI.

[akip]

There's lots of stuff going on before & after this you could take advantage of. & some people & places you might want to avoid that you may have thought were safe.


odds of sticking it out in haiti as a white person and surviving were beyond poor. here's just a couple bits from "night of fire" by martin ros (fascinating book, btw):

"Only 4,000 of the French survived the (final slave war)...remnants of the original white population still remained, mostly in the towns and cities. Dessalines decided that there was a simple solution for the problem of the remaining whites in Haiti: All had to be killed...Exceptions, as a rule, were made only for priests and physicians. Again gallows were erected. The executions lasted from January through the middle of March. Approximately five thousand whites---men, women and children---were killed....Of course a mad exodus to the coast took place as whites desperately raced to escape the slaughter...By the end of March, no more than forty whites were still alive in Port-au-Prince. Most of them were women who had agreed to marry blacks. They were encouraged to do so by Creole women..."

So there you have it...physicians and priests had a shot, so take your medical books and your bibles. And white women who marry black men had a chance to make it. Bring pretty clothes and make up. ;)

[akip]

here's another relevant bit---500 poles joined dessaline's rebellion. dessaline made a corps of them: les polonais. since the constitution forbade whites to ever again settle in haiti, a separate article was created to make an exception for them. about families with polish names were still living in haiti by 1990.

bring your polish dictionary.

[Duemellon]

Now, at that same time (beginning of it) Haiti was still separated between the French & Spanish side. So you had a chance to escape to England or Mexico by getting there in time.

Dangerous eh?

[akip]

Now, at that same time (beginning of it) Haiti was still separated between the French & Spanish side. So you had a chance to escape to England or Mexico by getting there in time.

Dangerous eh?

or later you could've tried joining up with the brits fighting the french. that's if you're the mercenary type.

[Duemellon]

It just seems 1783 - 1800 was a bad time for most people. Napoleon, French Revolutions, Brittish Imperialism falling apart, US just finishing it's devestating war, Canada getting an influx of loyalists, ...

It seems like the most stable areas would be Japan, China &, even though it was in decline, the Ottoman Empire was just beginning it's fall with a respite of wars which allowed them to turn internally for reforms (it'd be temporary).

Japan was turning destructively xenophobic & isolationistic.

China seems generally stable.

Heck, maybe you could just go & take over some islands & stuff.

[akip]

i think the colonies, having won, would be in a phase of optimistic messiness rather than dangerous chaos. considering that the objective is to survive fairly well, i think 1) speaking the language would be a distinct advantage, and 2) running a boarding house seems it could be a decent way that a woman alone could survive without a family---the lodgers would be a quasi-family who would also provide some protection.

[Duemellon]

i think the colonies, having won, would be in a phase of optimistic messiness rather than dangerous chaos. considering that the objective is to survive fairly well, i think 1) speaking the language would be a distinct advantage, and 2) running a boarding house seems it could be a decent way that a woman alone could survive without a family---the lodgers would be a quasi-family who would also provide some protection.Good idea. I know you realize they'd speak a decidedly different structure & accent than you're used to today, but I'm sure you can adapt. Heck, reading texts written in the 1930's will show you how much language has changed in that short time!

However, as optimistic as they were they still just won,... like the ink on the treaty isn't even dry yet, and the current form government we have isn't in place yet.

Are you really satisfied in becoming almost annonymous afterwards? Just a boarding-house matriarch? Anything you want to introduce, get involved in, change, or wittness?

In the US there's slavery, exploration, inventions, conventions, battles with the natives, & so many other things...

[akip]

Are you really satisfied in becoming almost annonymous afterwards? Just a boarding-house matriarch? Anything you want to introduce, get involved in, change, or wittness?

In the US there's slavery, exploration, inventions, conventions, battles with the natives, & so many other things...

hey, becoming a matriarch would be better than trying to be robinson crusoe. i'm not much of a camper. ;) but i don't mind somewhat manageable chaos of a frontier town society---i find those situations exciting 'cause the lid comes off convention and creative people are valued.

i'm really more of a thinker/observer than an action person by nature, so i like the idea of having a place where people come together to eat and drink and yammer. i'd make my contribution through talking with the doers, tossing in my (21st century) ideas, maybe lending support through putting people up or giving them a meal.

[drougan]

Philly in the 1780s/90s would be a good place to be. You could chat up Ben Franklin (when he was in town).

[akip]

You could chat up Ben Franklin (when he was in town).

he'd be very interested to discuss what the future had in store.

[Duemellon]

he'd be very interested to discuss what the future had in store.You'd let someone know you're from the future?

[akip]

You'd let someone know you're from the future?

i'd be sneaky about it, talk in hypotheticals.

[Duemellon]

Why that time, and why there?Well, now that you have your answer, do you have anything to add?

[dannyboy]

Hakuin passed away in 1769. It would be satisfying to travel to Japan and begin Zen study in a temple run by his sucessor.

[Donyo]

Pardon the obvious question, but what does this have to do with CE/P?

As for my answer, it depends on whether I could take Bob Saget with me. I couldn't send him to meet Charlemagne, but there's a chance he could meet Napoleon.

[Seattle93]

i'd probably go dressed like this - kevlar vest and assault rifle:

http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/images/306_SWAT_tire_306x229.jpg

with as many certified bearer bonds from that era stuffed into my tactical duffel bag alongside the ammunitions

You'd let someone know you're from the future?

i think my outfit might give it away ;)

[markalot]

Pardon the obvious question, but what does this have to do with CE/P?

As for my answer, it depends on whether I could take Bob Saget with me. I couldn't send him to meet Charlemagne, but there's a chance he could meet Napoleon.

If one could time travel it might be considered a current event with a sliding timescale. To you, everything would be current. It could also be said that you are traveling back in time in order to change a political outcome. Politics.

You had to ask.