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justa bill
01 Feb 2007, 02:19 AM
:D

Biden Unwraps His Bid for ’08 With an Oops!

By ADAM NAGOURNEY
Published: February 1, 2007

WASHINGTON, Jan. 31 — In an era of meticulous political choreography, the staging of the kickoff for this presidential candidacy could hardly have gone worse.

Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, who announced his candidacy on Wednesday with the hope that he could ride his foreign policy expertise into contention for the Democratic nomination, instead spent the day struggling to explain his description of Senator Barack Obama, the Illinois Democrat running for president, as “the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy.”

The remark, published Wednesday in The New York Observer, left Mr. Biden’s campaign struggling to survive its first hours and injected race more directly into the presidential contest. The day ended, appropriately enough for the way politics is practiced now, with Mr. Biden explaining himself to Jon Stewart on Comedy Central’s “The Daily Show.”

Earlier, in a decidedly nonpresidential afternoon conference call with reporters that had been intended to announce his candidacy, Mr. Biden, speaking over loud echoes and a blaring television set, said that he had been “quoted accurately.” He volunteered that he had called Mr. Obama to express regret that his remarks had been taken “out of context,” and that Mr. Obama had assured him he had nothing to explain.

“Barack Obama is probably the most exciting candidate that the Democratic or Republican party has produced at least since I’ve been around,” he said, adding: “Call Senator Obama. He knew what I meant by it. The idea was very straightforward and simple. This guy is something brand new that nobody has seen before.”

Asked about Mr. Biden’s comments, Mr. Obama said in an interview, “I didn’t take it personally and I don’t think he intended to offend.” Mr. Obama, who serves with Mr. Biden on the Foreign Relations Committee, added, “But the way he constructed the statement was probably a little unfortunate.”

But later in the day, with Mr. Biden coming under fire from some black leaders, Mr. Obama issued a statement that approached a condemnation. “I didn’t take Senator Biden’s comments personally, but obviously they were historically inaccurate,” he said. “African-American presidential candidates like Jesse Jackson, Shirley Chisholm, Carol Moseley Braun and Al Sharpton gave a voice to many important issues through their campaigns, and no one would call them inarticulate.”

For Mr. Biden, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, it was an inauspicious beginning to his first presidential campaign since 1988, when he dropped out after acknowledging using without attribution portions of a speech from a British politician. By the end of the day on Wednesday, Democrats were asking only half-jokingly whether Mr. Biden might be remembered for having the shortest-lived presidential campaign in the history of the Republic. :]

Shortly after 6 p.m., Mr. Biden issued a written statement. “I deeply regret any offense my remark in the New York Observer might have caused anyone,” he said. “That was not my intent and I expressed that to Senator Obama.”

Under questioning from reporters at his announcement conference call, Mr. Biden was pressed on what he meant in his description of Mr. Obama, particularly in his use of the word clean.

“He understood exactly what I meant,” Mr. Biden said. “And I have no doubt that Jesse Jackson and every other black leader — Al Sharpton and the rest — will know exactly what I meant.”

When he was asked, again, what he meant, Mr. Biden — known in Washington for his long-winded ways and his love of the microphone and the spotlight — bristled as he struggled over the squawk of feedback and echoes.

“I’m not going to repeat everything I just said,” he said. “There is a vote that starts at 2:30, it takes 11 minutes to get to the floor. I can take one more question but not on the subject I have already spoken to.”

And after taking one more question, Mr. Biden did something entirely out of character: He announced he was done talking.

Mr. Biden’s assurances notwithstanding, both Mr. Jackson and Mr. Sharpton — African-Americans who have run for president — said they had no idea what Mr. Biden meant. And both suggested they felt at least a little offended by the remarks.

Mr. Jackson described Mr. Biden’s remarks to the Observer, which also included critical statements about the Iraq positions of two of his Democratic opponents — Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina — as “blabbering bluster.”

A wounded note to his voice, Mr. Jackson pointed out that he had run against Mr. Biden for the 1988 Democratic nomination, and had lasted far longer and drawn more votes than did Mr. Biden. Mr. Biden was forced out in September 1987.

“I am not sure what he means — ask him to explain what he meant,” Mr. Jackson said. “I don’t know whether it was an attempt to diminish what I had done in ’88, or to say Barack is all style and no substance.”

Mr. Sharpton said that when Mr. Biden called him to apologize, Mr. Sharpton started off the conversation reassuring Mr. Biden about his hygienic practices. “I told him I take a bath every day,” Mr. Sharpton said.

No stranger to electoral intrigue, Mr. Sharpton was quick to offer a political motive: That Mr. Biden was drawing distinctions between Mr. Obama and African-American leaders like Mr. Sharpton and Mr. Jackson, to “discredit Mr. Obama with his base.”

At the very least, Mr. Biden’s remarks obscured a campaign roll-out in which he said that Mr. Bush had “dug America into a very big hole” with the war in Iraq and that the nation would need a leader experienced in foreign policy to take over during dangerous times. More than that, it seemed sure to harden Mr. Biden’s image in political circles as politically undisciplined, an image he had been working scrupulously to change in what has emerged as a long-term political rehabilitation project for him.

In his conference call, Mr. Biden quoted his mother in trying to explain what he meant about Mr. Obama. “My mother has an expression: Clean as a whistle and sharp as a tack,” Mr. Biden said, showering more praise on one of his biggest opponents for the nomination.

On Comedy Central, he told Mr. Stewart: “What got me in trouble was using the world clean. I should have said fresh. What I meant was he’s got new ideas.”

Mr. Biden’s comments also focused new attention on remarks he made about Indians last year, when he said, “you cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I’m not joking.”

Before he went on television, Mr. Biden found himself sharing a stage with Mr. Obama at a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on Iraq, where he was noticeably solicitous to his new presidential rival as members of the committee questioned Henry Kissinger, the former secretary of state. Mr. Biden chastised Senator John Kerry, the Massachusetts Democrat, to keep his comments short (“just one minute, Senator, or we will have everybody else”).

But he could not have been more accommodating to Mr. Obama as the senator from Illinois began wrapping up: “I know I’m out of time.”

Mr. Biden would have none of that. “That’s O.K.,” he told Mr. Obama. “You’re making a very salient point.”

Jeff Zeleny and Helene Cooper contributed reporting from Washington, and Conrad Mulcahy from New York.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/02/01/us/01biden190.1.jpg
Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., head of the Foreign Relations Committee, who Wednesday announced his Democratic presidential candidacy.

REMgirl
01 Feb 2007, 08:17 AM
I read this reply at a blog this morning, The Booman Tribune:

"Let's all jump on the corporate media bandwagon and let's all take Biden's statement in the Worst. Possible. Light. And let's all take turns beating the shit out of him for something he clearly did not mean.

Al Sharpton, God love him, is not mainstream. Jesse Jackson is not mainstream. He'd make a better president than anyone the Republicans have put up in half a century. But he's not mainstream. Neither was Carol Mosely Braun. She was quite possibly the sanest candidate on the stage in any of those debates, but she was not mainstream. Neither is Dennis Kucinich, for that matter.

Charlie Rangell is mainstream, at least by my yardstick. John Conyers is mainstream by any definition that I would use for the term. Colin Powell is mainstream. He'd make a better president than any other Republican I know of, and better than a few Democrats I can think of.

It is clear enough to me what Biden meant. Barack Obama is a package. A very attractive package that includes a whole bunch of attractive qualities, not least that he is a black man who seems to be acceptable to a large swath of white America. You know, mainstream. And I take Chris Rock's meaning, but that's not what Biden meant either. Obama is an orator. He first caught my attention with that speech at the convention. I gather he caught a lot of people's attention with that speech. He's not just well-spoken for a black man. He's a damned good speaker, a natural at the podium.

Oh, and he's good looking, too. Hell, he's prettier than John Edwards. Put all of that together and it makes a very attractive package. It's a storybook, man. He markets well. The first black man who seems to have all the prerequisites for corporate America to get excited about. I just wish he had some positions that I could get excited about."


I don't think Biden has much of a chance anyway. But everything a candidate says is up for microscopic scrutiny now. You'd better be able to say it first and say it right, or you're out. When he said Obama was "Clean" I don't think he meant physically clean. He meant he had a clear record without skeletons in his closet.

If Biden is truly racist, then this is the nail in his political coffin, and he's done. Better to find out now than later.

Duemellon
01 Feb 2007, 08:24 AM
Well...

As I said & other denied or disbelieved, Obama's race will be an issue in the contest. It is unavoidable. The media will find a way to polarize his stances through the way the phrase questions or how they pit him against others. In this case it was someone else easily taken down because of it.

It's gonna happen & u'll be stunned. Racial issues in this society are far too sensational to leave un-agitated by the headline-creating media.

dragonflier
01 Feb 2007, 08:53 AM
In some ways I like Biden, especially because of how much he goes after the Bush administration on Iraq. But anybody that has watched him for very long knows that the more he talks, the more he increases his danger of saying something "stupid." It seemed inevitable that he would put his foot in his mouth at some point after announcing his candidacy for President, I'm just a little surprised that it happened so quickly.

akip
01 Feb 2007, 09:00 AM
yeah, i've always liked biden, but he'll never make it to nominee. he's prone to speak his mind, very dangerous. ;)

epeolatry
01 Feb 2007, 09:48 AM
yeah, i've always liked biden, but he'll never make it to nominee. he's prone to speak his mind, very dangerous. ;)

i concur.

also, isn't he the only person in congress who had a son or daughter serve in the iraq war?

dragonflier
01 Feb 2007, 10:01 AM
i concur.

also, isn't he the only person in congress who had a son or daughter serve in the iraq war?
VA Senator Jim Webb has a son serving in Iraq right now.

Breeze
01 Feb 2007, 10:12 AM
yeah, i've always liked biden, but he'll never make it to nominee. he's prone to speak his mind, very dangerous. ;)


Speaking one's mind is one thing. Verbal diarrhea, to which Biden is prone, is quite another.

Breeze
01 Feb 2007, 10:13 AM
Racial issues in this society are far too sensational to leave un-agitated by the headline-creating media.

Surprised to hear this coming from you... ;)

RedRigmaJacket
01 Feb 2007, 10:22 AM
Anyone see Biden on The Daily Show last night? It was pretty good.

akip
01 Feb 2007, 10:30 AM
Speaking one's mind is one thing. Verbal diarrhea, to which Biden is prone, is quite another.

being the chatty sort myself, i'm sympathetic. ;)

Breeze
01 Feb 2007, 10:32 AM
being the chatty sort myself, i'm sympathetic. ;)

Biden goes far beyond chatty. As I once heard it put, "He has much to say--and then too much to add."

REMgirl
01 Feb 2007, 10:48 AM
Biden's been around a long time in Washington. He does have a solid reputation for his foreign policies and knowledge of world issues. He is unrelenting on finding a way to solve the crisis of the Iraq war. He meets the families with incoming caskets at the Delaware military AFB to see that they are treated with respect and honor. I like a lot about him, actually.

But the way things work now with the media, you simply can't make a mistake or misspeak. Kerry did it with his hapless attempt at joking just prior to the elections. It's not always fair, but it's the way things are. Much the pity, in some cases. Recent speaking out by people like Warner, Webb, and Hagel have been impressive and moving. It would be a pity if everyone becomes too worried about saying the right thing the wrong way. :confused:

akip
01 Feb 2007, 10:53 AM
But the way things work now with the media, you simply can't make a mistake or misspeak. Kerry did it with his hapless attempt at joking just prior to the elections. It's not always fair, but it's the way things are. Much the pity, in some cases. Recent speaking out by people like Warner, Webb, and Hagel have been impressive and moving. It would be a pity if everyone becomes too worried about saying the right thing the wrong way. :confused:

i think the long-winded sorts do best in the senate. byrd's another one who just goes on and he's been there longer than anyone. they may as well stuff him when he dies and let him sit there.

BigSugar
01 Feb 2007, 11:31 AM
what Joe "The Tool" Biden meant to say was that this boy has nice teeth. he's clean! doesn't smell like other black folks. doesn't use that "don king hair gel" that smells like pigs feet. doesn't "rap" like Jesse Jackson. he speaks nice and "clean" like a white man.

does that clear it up? b/c that's exactly what he meant by his ignorant and reeeeeaaallly poorly timed statement. "What i meant was "fresh", like he had "fresh ideas"......it's not working, is it Jon?"

"Say "No" to Joe" .....the Senate already has a Grand Wizard.

markalot
01 Feb 2007, 11:34 AM
I found it interesting that Jesse defended the guy. Democrat before racist?

What Joe and the rest of us want to say is that Obama may be white enough to win.

Breeze
01 Feb 2007, 11:42 AM
what Joe "The Tool" Biden meant to say was that this boy has nice teeth. he's clean! doesn't smell like other black folks. doesn't use that "don king hair gel" that smells like pigs feet. doesn't "rap" like Jesse Jackson. he speaks nice and "clean" like a white man.

does that clear it up? b/c that's exactly what he meant by his ignorant and reeeeeaaallly poorly timed statement. "What i meant was "fresh", like he had "fresh ideas"......it's not working, is it Jon?"

"Say "No" to Joe" .....the Senate already has a Grand Wizard.

And you have it on what authority that this was Biden "real" meaning?

markalot
01 Feb 2007, 11:49 AM
And you have it on what authority that this was Biden "real" meaning?


Biden is a democrat, he can't be racist.

And if a republican made that remark how would you react?

Breeze
01 Feb 2007, 11:51 AM
Biden is a democrat, he can't be racist.

And if a republican made that remark how would you react?

Foot-in-mouth disease is a partisan affliction?

dragonflier
01 Feb 2007, 12:05 PM
what Joe "The Tool" Biden meant to say was that this boy has nice teeth. he's clean! doesn't smell like other black folks. doesn't use that "don king hair gel" that smells like pigs feet. doesn't "rap" like Jesse Jackson. he speaks nice and "clean" like a white man.

does that clear it up? b/c that's exactly what he meant by his ignorant and reeeeeaaallly poorly timed statement. "What i meant was "fresh", like he had "fresh ideas"......it's not working, is it Jon?"

"Say "No" to Joe" .....the Senate already has a Grand Wizard.
"When you use 'quotes' within quotes" the inner marks should be single.

Breeze
01 Feb 2007, 12:11 PM
"When you use 'quotes' within quotes" the inner marks should be single.

"They said, 'What a great idea!'" I reminded them.

BigSugar
01 Feb 2007, 12:35 PM
"When you use 'quotes' within quotes" the inner marks should be single.

"when i'm writing my doctoral thesis on web posting, i'll remember to 'cite' you as authority." thanx for your concern. Doesn't change the fact that Joe Biden is a tool. as for "facts in support", his clear inability to offer a plausible alternative explanation is really good circumstantial evidence of what he meant. I just put it in the terms that he "really" wanted to use, but couldn't. :) besides, since when do we need "factual support" for our posts on CE/P? LOL!

The Capitalist
01 Feb 2007, 12:46 PM
what Joe "The Tool" Biden meant to say was that this boy has nice teeth. he's clean! doesn't smell like other black folks. doesn't use that "don king hair gel" that smells like pigs feet. doesn't "rap" like Jesse Jackson. he speaks nice and "clean" like a white man.

does that clear it up? b/c that's exactly what he meant by his ignorant and reeeeeaaallly poorly timed statement. "What i meant was "fresh", like he had "fresh ideas"......it's not working, is it Jon?"

"Say "No" to Joe" .....the Senate already has a Grand Wizard.


Ah ah ah. Don't forget to capitalize the first word in a sentence.

Duemellon
01 Feb 2007, 12:50 PM
I found it interesting that Jesse defended the guy. Democrat before racist?

What Joe and the rest of us want to say is that Obama may be white enough to win.
...
Biden is a democrat, he can't be racist.

And if a republican made that remark how would you react?Amazing...

MaL turning this partisan? Who'd've thunk. I guess we can stop worrying about the "victim" card & start printing up the "partisan" card. There's nothing you'd like better than to inject partisan politics into a situation that's not.

markalot
01 Feb 2007, 01:16 PM
Amazing...

MaL turning this partisan? Who'd've thunk. I guess we can stop worrying about the "victim" card & start printing up the "partisan" card. There's nothing you'd like better than to inject partisan politics into a situation that's not.

So are you, with a straight face, saying that if a republican candidate for President said this Jackson and Sharpton wouldn't be after their heads?

Breeze
01 Feb 2007, 01:23 PM
Amazing...

MaL turning this partisan? Who'd've thunk. I guess we can stop worrying about the "victim" card & start printing up the "partisan" card. There's nothing you'd like better than to inject partisan politics into a situation that's not.

Like a moth to the flame... mention race and guess who shows up...

dragonflier
01 Feb 2007, 01:26 PM
"when i'm writing my doctoral thesis on web posting, i'll remember to 'cite' you as authority." thanx for your concern. Doesn't change the fact that Joe Biden is a tool. as for "facts in support", his clear inability to offer a plausible alternative explanation is really good circumstantial evidence of what he meant. I just put it in the terms that he "really" wanted to use, but couldn't. :) besides, since when do we need "factual support" for our posts on CE/P? LOL!
It's a "thesis" if you're getting your M.S. It's a "dissertation" if you're getting your Ph.D. :)

The Big Crunch
01 Feb 2007, 01:38 PM
I like Biden, for the most part, but really, what the hell was he thinking?!?!?!?!

BigSugar
01 Feb 2007, 02:29 PM
It's a "thesis" if you're getting your M.S. It's a "dissertation" if you're getting your Ph.D. :)

i don't eat dissertation. it's fattening and i'm still working my new years diet plan for a few more days before i quit and have a twinkie binge.

xoxo
Richard Simmons

Breeze
01 Feb 2007, 02:30 PM
i don't eat dissertation. it's fattening and i'm still working my new years diet plan for a few more days before i quit and have a twinkie binge.

xoxo
Richard Simmons

May I be the first to say... huh?

Sushi
01 Feb 2007, 02:39 PM
yeah, i've always liked biden, but he'll never make it to nominee. he's prone to speak his mind, very dangerous. ;)
Unless of course he's speaking Neil Kinnock's mind. ;)

(am I the only one who remembers Biden's failed '88 election bid?)

Breeze
01 Feb 2007, 02:43 PM
Unless of course he's speaking Neil Kinnock's mind. ;)

(am I the only one who remembers Biden's failed '88 election bid?)

No, you're not alone. I'm wondering if this latest will sink him as fast as cribbing Kinnock did in 1988.

Duemellon
01 Feb 2007, 03:26 PM
So are you, with a straight face, saying that if a republican candidate for President said this Jackson and Sharpton wouldn't be after their heads?Yep. I would care just as much too.Like a moth to the flame... mention race and guess who shows up...You've made it abundantly clear how you believe you got me "all figured out". Like I'm a characiture of all the things about "race crusaders" you look down on. It'd be nice for you to one day lay the fuck off it and possibly see the person beneath your assumptions.

Just saying. It'd be nice.

Breeze
01 Feb 2007, 03:32 PM
You've made it abundantly clear how you believe you got me "all figured out". Like I'm a characiture of all the things about "race crusaders" you look down on. It'd be nice for you to one day lay the fuck off it and possibly see the person beneath your assumptions.

Just saying. It'd be nice.

Well, Christmas is coming. Maybe if you're good...

BigSugar
01 Feb 2007, 05:03 PM
May I be the first to say... huh? yeah, the dissertation/dessert joke was way funnier in my head. in my head, Jerry Lewis made with the funny parts. it was sweet. just ignore me. i'm sugar free 30 days now.

for the record: Coke Zero is not Coke.

Breeze
01 Feb 2007, 05:04 PM
yeah, the dissertation/dessert joke was way funnier in my head. in my head, Jerry Lewis made with the funny parts. it was sweet. just ignore me. i'm sugar free 30 days now.

Had I known about the Jerry Lewis aspect, it might have come across better.

Breeze
01 Feb 2007, 05:05 PM
for the record: Coke Zero is not Coke.

Yes, but I prefer it to regular or Diet Coke. Not overly sweet like Coke, and no aftertaste like diet.

Shlep
01 Feb 2007, 05:59 PM
Well...

As I said & other denied or disbelieved, Obama's race will be an issue in the contest. It is unavoidable. The media will find a way to polarize his stances through the way the phrase questions or how they pit him against others. In this case it was someone else easily taken down because of it.

It's gonna happen & u'll be stunned. Racial issues in this society are far too sensational to leave un-agitated by the headline-creating media.

I'd have to go back and check which threads had people posting on them who opined that they thought Baraks' race would be a 100% inconsequential non-issue. Not saying you're wrong, Due...I just can't think of anyone here who is that wildly naive.

Now, to the question of "So, is this whole 'black' thing with Barak Obama an asset or liability?" I don't think this can be accurately assessed until the '08 race is over and the party faithful fold their tents and head home. I don't think it's a mystery that the American voting public can be a wildly unpredictable and fickle bunch.

Yes, there seems to be anecdotal evidence to support the idea that what voters say regarding how much they care about race when asked and how much they seem to care when yanking a lever in polling booth are often quite inconsistent. And Obama might fall victim to what I once read about "First Black Syndrome;" that is, even in 2007 a guy in Obamas' position whose stock is rising is invariably going to gather a lot of "First African-American to <insert accomplishment here>" chits as he goes along. And I can see voters getting sick of the media and maybe even Obamas' camp making his race a central facet of the campaign. But the right team with the right message can make it work for him.

As for Biden: I have no idea why anyone would wonder why politicians deal in tepid half-truths and vague terms and ill-defined sound bites and canned, processed, and attractively-packaged rhetoric when one clumsy turn of phrase or misconstrued remark makes an officeholder front-page news and fodder for angry, pious opinion pieces.

monkey neck
01 Feb 2007, 11:13 PM
How 'bout this gem from Biden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIT3jUrNTX0

Somebody get the guy some duct tape.

BigSugar
02 Feb 2007, 12:01 PM
How 'bout this gem from Biden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIT3jUrNTX0

Somebody get the guy some duct tape.

why? i love when this bonehead opens his mouth and gets those googly eyes going. what a tool.