Muslim students fasting at school fires up Christian, wack-job board member

[OldManIndieKid]

Furor over fasting Muslims
BY MICHAEL D. CLARK | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

MASON - Mason school board member Jennifer Miller, who ran on a conservative Christian platform, thinks Christianity should be part of public school education.

So when she heard that two Muslim students had been offered a separate room during lunchtime at Mason High as they fasted during Ramadan, it raised her ire.

During Mason's board meeting Tuesday, a resident accused officials of being overly accommodating by giving the two high school students a separate room during the lunch hour for their dawn-to-dusk fast during the month-long Islamic holiday.
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Miller accused school officials of lying about the room's purpose, igniting an argument that ended the meeting early.

"We are a Christian nation, not a Muslim nation," Miller said Wednesday.

"Our Christian values have declined and yet we allow other faiths besides Christianity to have precedence in our schools," Miller said.

Miller and Superintendent Kevin Bright disagreed about the intent of the room, with Bright saying it was supposed to be a "fasting room" and Miller saying it was meant as a "prayer room."

Miller, who wants prayer in public schools and some Bible-based instruction, has no plans to take further action in this situation.

Mason resident Vickie Roark asked the board: "What if Catholics want to hang a crucifix in the school? If you allow one group to pray in school, then you have to allow every group to pray."

Bright contended the district's granting of the Muslim parents' request - so the two boys would not have to sit in the lunchroom while fasting - was simply an act of kindness, not favoritism. He said the boys never used the room, but went to the library instead until Ramadan ended on Monday.

Neither the teens nor their parents were available to comment.

Shakila Ahmad, a Muslim and a Mason parent, said she has found similar cooperation in other Mason schools, in Sycamore schools and at St. Xavier High School.

"If things are obligatory for a particular faith ... and are not in any way promoted by the school, then those things should be allowed if they are not disrespectful to other students of other religions," said Ahmad.

Public schools across the nation already accommodate various religions, she said, such as offering fish entrées for Catholics during Lent, or not scheduling school events on Jewish holidays. Making sure a school group orders pizzas without pepperoni - a pork product that many Muslims and Jews avoid - is another example of practices that should not be taken as anti-Christian provocations, she said.

Karen Dabdoub, director of the Cincinnati Chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said that as long as students initiate and run an activity, it is protected under the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

"It's very unfortunate that someone might be upset by this. ... The right is there for all students of all faiths, not just Muslims," said Dabdoub. "Most school administrators know their stuff and they know what the law says in this regard."

E-mail mclark@enquirer.com

[uselesstomato]

it is obvious, why this woman would annoy me.

she needs to chill out.

[miami2112]

all those christians are gonna be 'sprised when they get to heaven and other faiths are there.

screw these zealots. actualy, i detest almost all zealots.

[Slar]

This is how different religions do more for church / state separation than any secular organization ever could.

http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/prayer.jpg

[Duemellon]

I wonder if she'd shit her pants when she walks through the pearly gates & sees Jesus wearing a turban.

[purdueman_in]

This woman is a complete fuckwit. Many of our Founders were not Christians, and the ones that were practiced a very different form of Christianity than do today's evangelicals.

The Founders (geez, that sounds Star Trekkie...) lived in the Age of Enlightenment. Many of them didn't, for instance, believe in the divinity of Christ. Jefferson went so far as to write his own Gospel.

I'll stop before I really get on a roll...

[1979]

I know I will probably get blasted for this, but the lady does have a small point. With the separation of church and state, and the removal of religion from school, the school itself probalby shouldn't be this accomidating for students because of a religious observation. Of course, they probably shouldn't be going out of their way to offer fish on Fridays and avoiding pizza toppings because of religion either.

That being said, I think it is a great thing that the school did do this. And that it offers fish on Fridays, avoids putting events on Jewish holidays, etc. I also think that schools should recognize (not take time off, but should have a class period about them or something) all religious holidays. But with such strong feelings on both sides of the debate, I think that trying to find a middle ground is very difficult, if not impossible.

[markalot]

Does the school offer a prayer room for christians? How about a separate one for jews?

[Slar]

Does the school offer a prayer room for christians? How about a separate one for jews?"Public schools across the nation already accommodate various religions, she said, such as offering fish entrées for Catholics during Lent, or not scheduling school events on Jewish holidays."

It's not about prayer in this instance.

[REMgirl]

It was an empty classroom, for Pete's sake. They ended up going to the library anyhow, so the point is moot. The teacher who allowed them to go to a private room just didn't want them feeling uncomfortable around food since they were fasting.

Overreaction.

[1979]

It was an empty classroom, for Pete's sake. They ended up going to the library anyhow, so the point is moot. The teacher who allowed them to go to a private room just didn't want them feeling uncomfortable around food since they were fasting.

Overreaction.


I don't think it was a teacher. It appeared to be the district school board who granted a request by the parents of the two kids.

[classicgrrl]

I know I will probably get blasted for this, but the lady does have a small point. With the separation of church and state, and the removal of religion from school, the school itself probalby shouldn't be this accomidating for students because of a religious observation. Of course, they probably shouldn't be going out of their way to offer fish on Fridays and avoiding pizza toppings because of religion either.

That being said, I think it is a great thing that the school did do this. And that it offers fish on Fridays, avoids putting events on Jewish holidays, etc. I also think that schools should recognize (not take time off, but should have a class period about them or something) all religious holidays. But with such strong feelings on both sides of the debate, I think that trying to find a middle ground is very difficult, if not impossible.

I say no special accomodations for anybody, ever. that means kids go to school on christmas and thanksgiving, fish served on random days but NEVER a Friday, school during summer, events scheduled on SUNDAYS, etc.

that way everybody loses and nobody can gripe about it.

and that's what Mason gets for electing a dumbass to their school board.

[jcarwash31]

I know I will probably get blasted for this, but the lady does have a small point. With the separation of church and state, and the removal of religion from school, the school itself probalby shouldn't be this accomidating for students because of a religious observation. Of course, they probably shouldn't be going out of their way to offer fish on Fridays and avoiding pizza toppings because of religion either.



Does the school offer a prayer room for christians? How about a separate one for jews?
The school was not endorsing, promoting, or teaching Islam by giving these students a room to fast in during the lunch period, which was requested by the parents. This in no way violates the seperation of church and state and it gives the students the religious rights they are entitled too. The school was simply looking out for the well-being of their students. That goes for non-meat meals for Catholic students and no-pork options for Jewish students as well. The kids are at the school for a large part of the day and the school needs to take care of their students needs. Plus, how hard is it to offer food alternatives. Don't schools already have to offer vegetarian options? I would be willing to bet that if a group of Christian or Jewish students (or their parents) requested a time and room for prayer, the school would certainly try to accomodate them. Seperation of church and state does not compromise religious rights. It's when religion is taught in public schools that religious rights are compromised.

That being said, I think it is a great thing that the school did do this. And that it offers fish on Fridays, avoids putting events on Jewish holidays, etc. I also think that schools should recognize (not take time off, but should have a class period about them or something) all religious holidays. But with such strong feelings on both sides of the debate, I think that trying to find a middle ground is very difficult, if not impossible.
Don't they teach about cultures and religions in geography and social studies classes? But it wouldn't be hard to take a little time on a religious holiday to teach about it and give a greater understanding to other students.

Just like how they teach us about black people on MLK Jr. day.
Joking. I'm just joking.

[justmaybetiger]

This woman is a complete fuckwit. Many of our Founders were not Christians, and the ones that were practiced a very different form of Christianity than do today's evangelicals.

The Founders (geez, that sounds Star Trekkie...) lived in the Age of Enlightenment. Many of them didn't, for instance, believe in the divinity of Christ. Jefferson went so far as to write his own Gospel.

I'll stop before I really get on a roll...
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."

--Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

--James Madison (1751-1836), address to the Virginia General Assembly, June 20, 1785

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."

--Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)

Yup, the American founding fathers sure were some hardcore Christians...

[1979]

I say no special accomodations for anybody, ever. that means kids go to school on christmas and thanksgiving, fish served on random days but NEVER a Friday, school during summer, events scheduled on SUNDAYS, etc.

that way everybody loses and nobody can gripe about it.

and that's what Mason gets for electing a dumbass to their school board.


That is certainly one way to look at it. And you may be right. But the people that I think would loses most in that case would be the kids. I know that if we had a hockey practice on a Sunday, I would never have played. I know that it is a very personal instance, and wouldn't apply to everyone, but I am pretty sure that there are a lot of kids from ALL religious walks of life that would be in a similar situation regarding any kind of activity.

[1979]

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."

--Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

--James Madison (1751-1836), address to the Virginia General Assembly, June 20, 1785

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."

--Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)

Yup, the American founding fathers sure were some hardcore Christians...



“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”

--John Adams in a letter to his wife Abigail



“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel”

-- Ben Franklin, Constitutional Convention of 1787


"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

-- Thomas Jefferson


It looks like they might have been religious. Who knows.





All quotes found here. (http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm)

[classicgrrl]

That is certainly one way to look at it. And you may be right. But the people that I think would loses most in that case would be the kids. I know that if we had a hockey practice on a Sunday, I would never have played. I know that it is a very personal instance, and wouldn't apply to everyone, but I am pretty sure that there are a lot of kids from ALL religious walks of life that would be in a similar situation regarding any kind of activity.

i was being sarcastic btw.

giving them a fasting room (that wasn't used) was just kind not favoratism. the only people losing by that bitch stating we are a "christian" nation are the kids. pretty damned mean of her actually.

I guess I am not apart of this nation.

wonder what she thinks of mormons 'right' to more than one wife at the age of 14 or jehovah's witness' sitting out the pledge of allegiance or the amish not sending their children to public schools at all or the quakers concientious objectors and male quakers not registering for the draft.

these are 'christian' sects too.

again, this is Mason's own fault for electing a dumbass to their school board.

[Handy Smurf]

If Jennifer Miller ever finds herself within the vicinity of my toolshed, she's going to have a new nickname, Shovel-face.

[justmaybetiger]

“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”

--John Adams in a letter to his wife Abigail



“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel”

-- Ben Franklin, Constitutional Convention of 1787


"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

-- Thomas Jefferson


It looks like they might have been religious. Who knows.





All quotes found here. (http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm)
It appears that your founding fathers were politicians.

[1979]

i was being sarcastic btw.

giving them a fasting room (that wasn't used) was just kind not favoratism. the only people losing by that bitch stating we are a "christian" nation are the kids. pretty damned mean of her actually.

I guess I am not apart of this nation.

wonder what she thinks of mormons 'right' to more than one wife at the age of 14 or jehovah's witness' sitting out the pledge of allegiance or the amish not sending their children to public schools at all or the quakers concientious objectors and male quakers not registering for the draft.

these are 'christian' sects too.

again, this is Mason's own fault for electing a dumbass to their school board.


My apologies. The sarcasm detector isn't working too well over here...

But there are definitely folks with the attitude that you suggested. I, for one, think that schools should be year round. Now I agree, this lady is freakin' crazy. but I do wonder what the reaction of the school district would be if the Christian parents (which I assume to be the majority of the parents of kids in the school) asked for a place for their kids to go during lunch. With the large amount of assumed Christian kids, would the school accomodate? Should they? Does it matter if it is 2 kids or 2,000?

[1979]

It appears that your founding fathers were politicians.


Agreed. But that doesn't mean they weren't (or were) Christian.

[Handy Smurf]

Can someone photoshop this picture to have satan taking a dump on her face?
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/zmoney71/bildeDato20061026KategoriNEWS0102Lo.jpg

[ajax]

Can someone photoshop this picture to have satan taking a dump on her face?
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/zmoney71/bildeDato20061026KategoriNEWS0102Lo.jpg
Here is her e-mail address Dugout27@msn.com. She needs some spam. ;)

[DaHood]

“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”

--John Adams in a letter to his wife Abigail



“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel”

-- Ben Franklin, Constitutional Convention of 1787


"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

-- Thomas Jefferson


It looks like they might have been religious. Who knows.





All quotes found here. (http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm)
Thanks for posting that. As an agnostic I can do without religion in government but to say that our founding fathers were not for the most part Christians is ignorant.

[gwar469]

Can someone photoshop this picture to have satan taking a dump on her face?
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/zmoney71/bildeDato20061026KategoriNEWS0102Lo.jpg

dear god! I think we just found Gollum's offspring!!

http://www.lisashea.com/hobbies/retking/gollum2.jpg

either that, or large-mouth bass have found a way to mate with humans.

[purdueman_in]

Thanks for posting that. As an agnostic I can do without religion in government but to say that our founding fathers were not for the most part Christians is ignorant.

Actually, the ignorance is demonstrated by those who believe that they were Christian men that believed as today's Christians. MANY of the Founders were Christian; however, many of them were Deists, agnostics, or even atheists. Some (e.g., Washington, Franklin) are hard to pin down, but it appears that if they were Christian, they weren't terribly devoted Christians. Of course, in those days it wasn't terribly popular to call ones self an atheist, so that may account for some of the ambiguity.

[motorcitygirl]

but I do wonder what the reaction of the school district would be if the Christian parents (which I assume to be the majority of the parents of kids in the school) asked for a place for their kids to go during lunch. With the large amount of assumed Christian kids, would the school accomodate? Should they? Does it matter if it is 2 kids or 2,000?

What would be their reasoning for requesting a separate room? Just wondering. It seems as though before anyone could address the question of whether a school "should" make accomodations, it would have to look at the reasoning for the requested accompodation. It's not as though schools don't already make accomodations for Christians -- All of the school breaks/holidays, for example, are scheduled to coincide w/ the major Christian holidays (Chrismas, Easter).

[Emperor Wog]

Here is her e-mail address Dugout27@msn.com. She needs some spam. ;)


Dear Jennifer,

Please be quiet. You are embarrassing me for God's sake. LOL, no pun intended.

Seriously though... shut it.

Love,
Jesus (sonofchrist@godmail.com)

[1979]

What would be their reasoning for requesting a separate room? Just wondering. It seems as though before anyone could address the question of whether a school "should" make accomodations, it would have to look at the reasoning for the requested accompodation. It's not as though schools don't already make accomodations for Christians -- All of the school breaks/holidays, for example, are scheduled to coincide w/ the major Christian holidays (Chrismas, Easter).


I agree, schools do already accomodate Christians with the timing of breaks and such. I'm just wondering what the reaction would be if the parents wanted a serparate room for their kids during lunch because they wanted them to fast? Let's suggest that the Christian denominations in this one town got together and decided on a week of fasting - say like Lent or something. What if the only room large enough to hold these kids was the caffeteria? Just wondering...I really don't have an answer, and this scenario is most likely not going to occur, so it really doesn't matter. But should the school accomodate them?

[DaHood]

Actually, the ignorance is demonstrated by those who believe that they were Christian men that believed as today's Christians.
Who said anything about them believing what these nutbag bible thumping revivalist today believe?

[purdueman_in]

It's not as though schools don't already make accomodations for Christians -- All of the school breaks/holidays, for example, are scheduled to coincide w/ the major Christian holidays (Chrismas, Easter).

You forgot to add "bee-yatch!" ;)

[purdueman_in]

Who said anything about them believing what these nutbag bible thumping revivalist today believe?

That, however, is typically at the basis of the "Founders were Christian" argument. Not only the religion, but the specific beliefs.

[DaHood]

That, however, is typically at the basis of the "Founders were Christian" argument. Not only the religion, but the specific beliefs.
I can't argue too much with that. People seem to have to twist the facts to support whatever they believe.

[motorcitygirl]

I agree, schools do already accomodate Christians with the timing of breaks and such. I'm just wondering what the reaction would be if the parents wanted a serparate room for their kids during lunch because they wanted them to fast? Let's suggest that the Christian denominations in this one town got together and decided on a week of fasting - say like Lent or something. What if the only room large enough to hold these kids was the caffeteria? Just wondering...I really don't have an answer, and this scenario is most likely not going to occur, so it really doesn't matter. But should the school accomodate them?

If a group of Chistian students decided they wanted to fast for a week & requested a separate room so that they did not have to spend luch watching other kids eat, I'm guessing the school's response would be dependent on how large the group was.

If the group consisted of a large portion of the school & enough parents requested an accomodation (i.e., included kids of different Christian denominations) the school would likely shut down cafeteria services for that week, leave the fasting kids in the cafeteria, & create a separate room for the small group of students who still chose to bring a lunch to school. In other words, the non-christian students would have to work around the fact that they can't buy luch in school just like they have to work around the fact that their school holidays don't coincide with their religious holidays.

If the group was smaller (i.e., only a particular christian sect), then I don't really see how it would be any different from the situation with the muslim students. The school could just designate one or two classrooms for those students to sit in during lunch & maybe have those kids study or watch a movie or read or something.

On another note, it seems to me like anyone who was fasting for religious reasons should not separate themselves from others who are eating. Isn't the whole point of fasting supposed to be that it's a physical and mental sacrifice? It seems like having to fast while watching other's eat would strengthen the sacrifice. (just kidding -- I know they're just kids)

[Homsar]

We're a Christian nation.

Uh......not really. Maybe she meant "we're a nation controlled by Christians, and dammit we're going to have our way!"

[Duemellon]

What an awesome photo. Does she look terrified or terrifying?

As for worrying about "protecting" Christianity in schools...
To eliminate Christianity from the public school environment is no small task. From the Pledge of Allegiance to even other student names, it is sewn tightly & seamlessly into the Public School society. Textbooks will refer to it, other students will expect it of you & treat you as a non-homogenous element if you are not "comfortably monotheistic" if not just plain ol' vanilla Christian. From school team names to even the School names themselves, there are so many subtleties "validating" Christianity, if you don't see them it's because you're so used to them.

[slopechz]

What an awesome photo. Does she look terrified or terrifying?
She looks like she needs to get laid. A good hard one. :D

[Homsar]

She looks like she needs to get laid. A good hard one. :D

http://media.bestprices.com/content/music/60/743664.jpg

[Duemellon]

She looks like she needs to get laid. A good hard one. :D& you're the one to do it!??!!?

Have at it brave volunteer! I'd say I suspect she likes the missionary position but she probably thinks you'll both be on your knees.

[Homsar]

Nothing changes a mind like a nice hard boning.

[Handy Smurf]

What an awesome photo. Does she look terrified or terrifying?

As for worrying about "protecting" Christianity in schools...
To eliminate Christianity from the public school environment is no small task. From the Pledge of Allegiance to even other student names, it is sewn tightly & seamlessly into the Public School society. Textbooks will refer to it, other students will expect it of you & treat you as a non-homogenous element if you are not "comfortably monotheistic" if not just plain ol' vanilla Christian. From school team names to even the School names themselves, there are so many subtleties "validating" Christianity, if you don't see them it's because you're so used to them.
for a second there, I thought you were going to get into the whole monotheism vs. polytheism thing...

I'm surprised you havent brought that up here yet. It could prove to be an interesting discussion

[markalot]

"Public schools across the nation already accommodate various religions, she said, such as offering fish entrées for Catholics during Lent, or not scheduling school events on Jewish holidays."

It's not about prayer in this instance.

Excellent point, I agree.

[Duemellon]

for a second there, I thought you were going to get into the whole monotheism vs. polytheism thing...

I'm surprised you havent brought that up here yet. It could prove to be an interesting discussionThat was the 1st time I'd talked to someone about that. In no way have I come close to putting it together in a nice phrase or comparison. The basic idea of core beliefs & faith was brought up in many other threads (The Dreaded Thread in particular) but that talk I had with you is too new to me too.

Regardless of what some people think I do weigh my words & intent long before I start a thread.

[uselesstomato]

i fasted during ramadon. and i asked my work to give me accomodations. i asked if i could leave earlier since i wasnt gonna be taking lunch breaks, and i asked to come in late on Eid so i could go attend the prayer.

when people ask me to go to group lunches, i decline and prefer to stay in my cube during lunch so that im not around food.

obviously... im in a different environment.

but i think allowing the kids to not have to sit in the cafeteria is just nice and curteous. its not a big deal.

my work doesnt have to let me leave earlier or let me come in late. but my boss is being nice and respectful of my beliefs. i would be just as respectful of his.

[ICONOCLAST420]

again, this is Mason's own fault for electing a dumbass to their school board.
Mason is kind of a fucked up place. Just for shits and giggles you should do a google search of Mason Municipal Court Judge George Parker - That guy is "out there."

[DaHood]

i fasted during ramadon. and i asked my work to give me accomodations. i asked if i could leave earlier since i wasnt gonna be taking lunch breaks, and i asked to come in late on Eid so i could go attend the prayer.

when people ask me to go to group lunches, i decline and prefer to stay in my cube during lunch so that im not around food.

obviously... im in a different environment.

but i think allowing the kids to not have to sit in the cafeteria is just nice and curteous. its not a big deal.

my work doesnt have to let me leave earlier or let me come in late. but my boss is being nice and respectful of my beliefs. i would be just as respectful of his.
All sounds reasonable to me.

[Shlep]

Furor over fasting Muslims
BY MICHAEL D. CLARK | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

MASON - Mason school board member Jennifer Miller, who ran on a conservative Christian platform, thinks Christianity should be part of public school education.

Of course, because as it is right now, people who want Christianity to be a component of their kids' schooling currently have no options. Except for private Christian schools, home-schooling, after-school CCD classes like the kind I went to as a kid...

Besides that, I find it odd that many of the same folks who are ardent supporters of imbuing public school curriculae with Christianity are frequently the same ones who believe just as ardently that public school education sucks because liberals are dictating policy in the public school system while high-powered, left-leaning interest groups representing school teachers (such as the NEA) are shoving their agenda on various school systems across the country. The result, as the argument goes, is lower standards resulting in a piss-poor education that leaves millions of kids nationwide unable to read, write, perform mathematics, and engage in critical thinking worth a shit.

So can someone tell me why anyone would want this same caliber of instruction provided by the same teachers deployed for something as critical as the religious education of their child?

So when she heard that two Muslim students had been offered a separate room during lunchtime at Mason High as they fasted during Ramadan, it raised her ire.

Something tells me this womans' ire is in a constantly-raised state.

"Our Christian values have declined..."

I couldn't agree more, kitten. I always believed that acceptance, tolerance, kindness towards people of other faith or people of no faith at all was a central, basic value in Christianity. And you're showing none of that.

You know, when I was a kid, my church once held a Passover seder for what I'm pretty sure was the purpose of helping our Catholic congregation have a better understanding and familiarity with elements of the Jewish faith. I'd love to have this woman attend such a function...I bet her head would explode like that dude from Scanners. I mean, sitting in the pews in a *CHRISTIAN* house of worship when all of the sudden..matzohs! Hebrew! Wine! OH MY!!!

"...and yet we allow other faiths besides Christianity to have precedence in our schools," Miller said.

This just smacks of mean-spirited pettiness to me. Nobody is saying the school has to remove all pictures of people or animals because it offends Allah, or segregate the boys from the girls, or halt class five times a day and face east or have the teachers end every sentence with "Insh'allah!" The school system allowed two kids to go to a different room at lunch, period. I absolutely fail to see where any actual "accomodation" took place, though it could be because in my mind, "accomodation" entails changing something or requesting someone do something extra or extraordinary; in this case, it seems to me that the Muslim kids were the ones doing the accomodating as they removed themselves from their normal lunchtime destination.

Besides, I'd think that Mrs. Miller would wholeheartedly approve, endorse, even encourage reducing the amount of time each day that the heathen ragheads are allowed to mingle with good God-fearing Christian kids, even if only by an hour or so. Lunch is one of the few times they can talk freely amongst themselves...the risk of some Muslim kids saying some Muslim stuff and pushing his Muslim-ness on his non-Muslim classmates is attenuated.

Miller, who wants prayer in public schools and some Bible-based instruction, has no plans to take further action in this situation.

"Bible-based instruction"? What is that, exactly?

I'd sure hate to think it involves using the Bible as a template for teaching things like English composition; future employers might look at them like they're crazy: "Mr. Johnson, I notice here on your resume you say 'Yay verily did I go forth to Ohio State University, and for one hundred-eighty days and nights did I toil as an intern..."

I guess it also means that algebra, spherical trigonometry, and quite a bit of astronomy needs to be removed from the curriculum as these are disciplines either created or advanced considerably by Muslims (the very word "algebra" is Arabic in origin).

[Dirk]

Can someone photoshop this picture to have satan taking a dump on her face?
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/zmoney71/bildeDato20061026KategoriNEWS0102Lo.jpg
This picture looks like you already did it. Man that bitch is ugly.

[DLDude]

So... where do you get the email address for someone such as this lady?

Perhaps we write a collective "YOU SUCK" letter

[gwar469]

Here is her e-mail address Dugout27@msn.com. She needs some spam. ;)

courtesy of ajax in an earlier post. Wog's already sent her some love.

[justmaybetiger]

I'd sure hate to think it involves using the Bible as a template for teaching things like English composition; future employers might look at them like they're crazy: "Mr. Johnson, I notice here on your resume you say 'Yay verily did I go forth to Ohio State University, and for one hundred-eighty days and nights did I toil as an intern..."

I guess it also means that algebra, spherical trigonometry, and quite a bit of astronomy needs to be removed from the curriculum as these are disciplines either created or advanced considerably by Muslims (the very word "algebra" is Arabic in origin).
Suddenly the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter becomes 3 according to the bible... Lets not even get started on science.

[gwar469]

Suddenly the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter becomes 3 according to the bible... Lets not even get started on science.

wait, it doesn't?! shit...

<fixes all design calculations from past 5+ years>

[justmaybetiger]

wait, it doesn't?! shit...

<fixes all design calculations from past 5+ years>
http://www.xkcd.com/pi.jpg

[snarf!]

I'd sure hate to think it involves using the Bible as a template for teaching things like English composition; future employers might look at them like they're crazy: "Mr. Johnson, I notice here on your resume you say 'Yay verily did I go forth to Ohio State University, and for one hundred-eighty days and nights did I toil as an intern..."
HA! I almost spit out my carrots at that! :p

[SheepNutz]

Nothing changes a mind like a nice hard boning.

Sigged.
123

[Shlep]

HA! I almost spit out my carrots at that! :p

I dislike carrots immensely. I guess this means sorta accomplished something today. :)

[DaHood]

I dislike carrots immensely.
Blasphemy!

[purple_octopus]

Blasphemy!
Oh, he would eat them without even realizing it if the carrots were covered in enough sauce of some kind.

[jcarwash31]

Suddenly the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter becomes 3 according to the bible... Lets not even get started on science.
I heard the jury's still out on science.

http://images.quizilla.com/K/KellyxKiller/1112387510_rrestedgob.jpg

[DaHood]

Oh, he would eat them without even realizing it if the carrots were covered in enough sauce of some kind.
Just gimmie some steamed carrots with butter.

Mmmmmmmm.....

[Duemellon]

http://home.fuse.net/artist4hire/JennJeebus.jpg

[DoooWhat]

Below is the email that I sent to Jennifer Miller (Dugout27@msn.com). I searched the address, and it is indeed her real address.

----------

Ms. Miller:

Thank you for reaffirming my stance that extremely religious people are idiots. Your blind faith has blinded you from reality. You are trying to keep little kids from performing a peaceful ritual that is part of their religion.

Why are you a Christian? Is it because you decided when the time was right
that you believed everything that is fundamental to the church? My guess is no. It is probably because you were raised as a Christian, and didn't question the validity of your beliefs. You just pounded your Bible and called people Heathens who were non-followers.

You are a fucking idiot. These kids have been raised as Muslims. Agree or
disagree with their beliefs, but let them believe. The same right was afforded to you in your adolescence.

Regards,

Jon Jacob Jingle Heimer Agnostic

[markalot]

Below is the email that I sent to Jennifer Miller (Dugout27@msn.com). I searched the address, and it is indeed her real address.

----------
re-written to remove hate crap.

Ms. Miller:

Thank you for reaffirming my stance that extremely religious people are lacking true compassion. Your faith has blinded you from reality. You are trying to keep little kids from performing a peaceful ritual that is part of their religion.

Why are you a Christian? Is it because you decided when the time was right
that you believed everything that is fundamental to the church? My guess is no. It is probably because you were raised as a Christian, and didn't question the validity of your beliefs.

These kids have been raised as Muslims. Agree or disagree with their beliefs, but let them believe. The same right was afforded to you in your adolescence.

Regards,

Jon Jacob Jingle Heimer Agnostic

Cut the hate crap out and it sounds a lot better. I would also sign my real name, not some silly name. Plus you might add that it's these exact behaviors that make many of us agnostic. Personally I'm not at the point where I can say god exists or doesn't exist, and the argument in my head is polluted by all these zealots who give religion a bad name.

[jd1]

http://home.fuse.net/artist4hire/JennJeebus.jpgLOL... MC 500ft Innsmouth Look Jesus.

--JD

[Handy Smurf]

That was the 1st time I'd talked to someone about that. In no way have I come close to putting it together in a nice phrase or comparison. The basic idea of core beliefs & faith was brought up in many other threads (The Dreaded Thread in particular) but that talk I had with you is too new to me too.

Regardless of what some people think I do weigh my words & intent long before I start a thread.
When we discussed it, I got the impression that it was something you had thought about quite a bit before.
It would certainly be an interesting discussion for this forum, either way, even though you know it would probably get corrupted, hijacked, and turned into an argument at some point ;)

[Handy Smurf]

"Bible-based instruction"? What is that, exactly?

I'd sure hate to think it involves using the Bible as a template for teaching things like English composition; future employers might look at them like they're crazy: "Mr. Johnson, I notice here on your resume you say 'Yay verily did I go forth to Ohio State University, and for one hundred-eighty days and nights did I toil as an intern..."

:p :p :p good stuff

[classicgrrl]

My apologies. The sarcasm detector isn't working too well over here...

But there are definitely folks with the attitude that you suggested. I, for one, think that schools should be year round. Now I agree, this lady is freakin' crazy. but I do wonder what the reaction of the school district would be if the Christian parents (which I assume to be the majority of the parents of kids in the school) asked for a place for their kids to go during lunch. With the large amount of assumed Christian kids, would the school accomodate? Should they? Does it matter if it is 2 kids or 2,000?

I'm gonna catch a lot of flack for this but this interpretation was put into place to protect the minority. Doesn't matter if it's 2 or 2000.

what gets my goat is that all these ridiculous fundamentalist charasmatic boobs are doing EXACTLY what their predecessors fought so hard to put into place! We have seperation of church and state to prevent an England type state with a main religion - Frankly, I think we SHOULD abolish seperation of church and state...

in the longterm irony, it would mean the end of fundamentalism...

[classicgrrl]

This picture looks like you already did it. Man that bitch is ugly.

Dirk, those were my thoughts exactly.
did this woman breed?

yeesh. :eek:

*I know it's juvenile but so what?

"Bible-based instruction"? What is that, exactly?

"I'd sure hate to think it involves using the Bible as a template for teaching things like English composition; future employers might look at them like they're crazy: "Mr. Johnson, I notice here on your resume you say 'Yay verily did I go forth to Ohio State University, and for one hundred-eighty days and nights did I toil as an intern..."

I guess it also means that algebra, spherical trigonometry, and quite a bit of astronomy needs to be removed from the curriculum as these are disciplines either created or advanced considerably by Muslims (the very word "algebra" is Arabic in origin)."

Schlep that damn near made me spit cookie bits at my monitor. :D

[Shlep]

Man, I need to stop posting...there are starving kids in Africa, and I'm making people spit out perfectly good food! :D