North Korea tests nuke

[markalot]

Breaking story, not a lot if information yet.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061009/ap_on_re_as/koreas_nuclear_86

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15190745/

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/10/08/korea.nuclear.test.ap/index.html

It will be interesting to see if there is any fallout (political and the radiation type) over this. Maybe North Korea is what the world needs to understand that some people just aren't reasonable and must be dealt with.

[akip]

maybe north korea, like iran, sees the united states as weakened by the situation in iraq and feels emboldened.

[markalot]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20061008/capt.sge.uwg33.081006105225.photo00.photo.default-364x512.jpg
North Korea leader and part time Elvis impersonator Kim Jong-Il is said to be happy about nuclear test.

"The nuclear test is a historic event that brought happiness to the our military and people," the Korean Central News Agency said. In the United States Bush was quoted as saying, "screw those guys, you tell Kim that all his base are belong to us."

http://allyourbase.planettribes.gamespy.com/video1_view.shtml

[patio]

Well I guess they've called out bluff, that is, if it is a bluff...

[Anyong]

So what? We've got more important things to worry about. Gay people want to get married, ya know...

[frizgolf]

And the U.S. is worried?
Fire one live missile at any enemy, and Kim is dust.

[synthetic]

So what? We've got more important things to worry about. Gay people want to get married, ya know...Oh and there are people burning flags! Definitely more things to worry about...

Seriously though, insane to hear about this, someone had just told me a few hours ago. I'm betting that Bush will just pass this off just like he passed off the threats and then continue on with how the war in Iraq is right or something.

[Marlowe]

first off, we don't know for sure if he did this. so far, he's only claimed to have done a test. we'll find out soon enough, but it's possible he made that shite up. (although, i just checked out cnn, and they're reporting a large seismic activity, so it looks like it probably is true)

kim il jung's regime is on the verge of collapse. this is intended to be a sign of strength in order to get the US to negotiate one-on-one with them and give them more goodies to prop up the regime for longer. the missile test he did a few months ago was a similar attempt to look strong, but the US largely ignored it and KIJ was left dithering.

if this actually happened, it doesn't portend well for the region. this will surely cause Japan to initiate a nuclear deterrent of its own. and that in turn will ripple through to China, which does not want an increasingly active & nuclear Japan.

the key player here is going to be n korea's historical protectorate, China. as mentioned in the above paragraphs, its' against china's interest to have N Korea up the ante in this way, so i'm hopeful they will exert pressure sufficient to get KIJ to back down.

there was a really really really interesting cover story in the latest atlantic monthly by robert kaplan, about n korea. anyone who's interested in what's going on here and what the ramifications are, should definitely read it.

[slopechz]

if this actually happened, it doesn't portend well for the region. this will surely cause Japan to initiate a nuclear deterrent of its own. and that in turn will ripple through to China, which does not want an increasingly active & nuclear Japan.
Didn't they do a nuclear test last year? Everybody got their panties in a wad and then things eventually cooled down. I think this wacko was in need of some worldwide attention.

[drougan]

That was a missile test, if I remember correctly. Slightly less imposing, but aggressive nonetheless.

It failed, too, I think.

[slopechz]

That was a missile test, if I remember correctly. Slightly less imposing, but aggressive nonetheless.

It failed, too, I think.
Your right, it didn't get very far did it.

[akip]

there was a really really really interesting cover story in the latest atlantic monthly by robert kaplan, about n korea. anyone who's interested in what's going on here and what the ramifications are, should definitely read it.

just as an aside, i'm interested to see that his profile in that (my fav) mag is coming back...seemed to wane a bit under michael kelly, and then when he got very cozy with the military in a way that seemed to undermine his journalistic objectivity. he basically turned me into a realist several years ago, then sort of threw me for a loop by jumping in with the neocons in "warrior politics," which got hammered by serious historians who said he was in way over his head and drawing facile, inaccurate analogies. and then "imperial grunts" was critically decimated in a way that i wish i didn't agree with, but, from the exerpts i read, i couldn't really defend him.

i'm just curious about how others who've read his work see all this panning out. i think his work's improved again...but i'd like to see him do what he does best, which is go into very dangerous hot zones and tell it like it is, with all the ambiguities intact.

[monkey neck]

This should be a wake up call to Bush that he cannot let Iran get to this stage.

Rumor has it that Kim Jong Il is demanding a dozen new Members Only jackets if we want him to cease his nuclear program.

[Duemellon]

This is not a direct threat to the US but a really short-distanced indirect threat to the US's capability. In no way is NKor capable of delivering a missle to actual US lands (Alaska, Hawaii, & even some US pacific islands are still out of range with their known capacity).

Basicaly they're attempting to distabilize the balance between them & other US interests/allies & generally "clown" the US's sanctions/posturing against them.

So now what?

Obviously, to save face we can't just look the other way. How strong of a response should there be? It seemed quite essential for KJ-I to have done this while Bush was in power & I wonder why.

Right now there are too many questions for honest speculation. Our own government's reaction is unpredictable & that scares me.

[gwar469]

it seems like the UN is waiting for China to step up and do something. all countries have done their part in condemning the act (which seems par for the course), but nobody wants to step on China's toes.

[markalot]

China holds the key.

They provide fuel and food to NK. If you were China would you want to cut them off? Bush has to understand the position China is in. If he doesn't then it will only get worse as we try and play the isolation game.

Again, if you're China what do you do? Is Kimmy insane enough to use his nukes if the world cuts him off?

[Marlowe]

This should be a wake up call to Bush that he cannot let Iran get to this stage.

Rumor has it that Kim Jong Il is demanding a dozen new Members Only jackets if we want him to cease his nuclear program.
rumour also has it that yoko ono has joined the cause for a nuclear-free korean peninsula by pledging to give all of her sunglasses to KJI if he agrees to back down.

[miami2112]

proof of wmd...

what are we waiting for? invade!! :p

[noonan]

Is Kimmy insane enough to use his nukes if the world cuts him off?

I think the question is more like is he insane enough to sell them to the highest bidder. In my view that's a scarier thought.

[markalot]

proof of wmd...

what are we waiting for? invade!! :p

Yea, you know everyone is talking about failure of the Bush policy ... what about the UN? Here we have NK and Iran who have or want to develop nukes and the UN did and is doing nothing.

The worlds policy of success seems to be talk tough but let it happen. Fuck invasion, nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

[Duemellon]

It would seem some people propose the best action to deal with someone else getting armed is to kill them.

Crazy world this is. Shot'm cause he got a gun too.

[markalot]

It would seem some people propose the best action to deal with someone else getting armed is to kill them.

Crazy world this is. Shot'm cause he got a gun too.

Killing people is easy.

But really, where is the will? I believe that in the current environment you can have a rouge nation develop and USE a nuke before the word realizes that some people are just that bad.

[Duemellon]

In the same vein, who's going to the be the tyrannical power who will have to use their sole-judgement to supress threats?

See, that "absolute power corrupts" bit is true, but not. Even the most benevolent tyrant will make choices questioned by some of those who are affected &, without any avenues to voice their opinion or influence change, they will view themselves as being "wronged". Thus, the "corruption" part.

It should be rewritten as:
Absolute power pisses some people off who have no way to sway the tyrant & therefore become upset causing them to view the regime as malevolent.

But that's a mouthful.

[Homsar]

I think the question is more like is he insane enough to sell them to the highest bidder. In my view that's a scarier thought.

Maybe then, he'd feed his people. We should buy his nukes.

[loveydovey]

Maybe then, he'd feed his people. We should buy his nukes.

I think that's the real threat. NoKo (as we playfully refer to it in my reporting class,) has no reason to start lobbing bombs across the Pacific. But they have a history of sharing with Iran. Didn't they also sell some missiles and stuff to Syria and a handful of other countries?

[markalot]

I think that's the real threat. NoKo (as we affectionately refer to it in my reporting class,) has no reason to start lobbing bombs across the Pacific. But they have a history of sharing with Iran. Didn't they also sell some missiles and stuff to Syria and a handful of other countries?

They sold missles to Yemen transported on a ship carrying cement. We found them but had no authority to do anything so we let the shipment through. Why we didn't accidently sink that ship is beyond me.

[markalot]

By the way, the US is claiming that the test has to be a horrible failure because the explosion was so small.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/10/10/korea.nuclear.test/index.html

[Shlep]

I cannot help but notice a certain amount of criticism towards Bush regarding the North Korean nuke situation which strikes me as nothing more than petty gainsaying.

To whit: I keep hearing (not just here) that he went and "allowed" Kim Jong Il to acquire a nuke, how he was asleep at the switch in letting it happened on his watch, and now I see speculation that he's going to do nothing and try to redirect public attention towards the Iraq war, which keeps being brought up as another enabling KJI in getting a nuke (because we're "bogged down" there, KJI feels emboldened to press forward with his nuke program).

Would someone like to perhaps explain how, for instance, not being in Iraq would have allowed us to stop the North Koreans from the getting The Bomb and for that matter, what Bush was supposed to do to prevent this from coming to pass?

Seriously, people: Clinton tried a couple carrot/stick approaches to diplomacy which did nothing but make us look like dupes and validate what reasoned analysis of the situation reveals: Kim Jong Il never had, nor does he likely have now, any intention whatso-friggin'-ever of not acquiring nukes, because his nuke program provides him with political leverage and consequence he dumpy little screwed-up tinpot dictatorship wouldn't have otherwise. The more noise he makes about nukes, the more the world must take notice, the more all eyes must turn to him, and the more many feel motivated to try and buy him off with concessions that prop up his shitty government.

The only thing that would stop the North Koreans from moving forward would be an aggressive engagement against his infrastructure involving force, literally blowing stuff up on the ground or at the very least putting on a show of force that forces him to back off...which of course hasn't happened, which means Bush is being roundly criticized for not doing what these same critics criticize him for doing elsewhere.

And please, don't anyone proffer up any lame b.s. arguments about how the US won't tangle with a nuclear power and risk open war. We did more than once during the Cold War, and unless the North Koreans built some giant slingshot I don't know about, they have no way of delivering a nuke anywhere.

[Duemellon]

Schlep,

Threats/bluffs are meaningless if your opponent knows you can't back it up. Simple as that.

What do we have to convince NKor to "behave"? We are at a severe moment of weakness. Our standing army is engaged. Our "supreme war machine" has been proven to be suspect. Our traditional allies are suspicious of us. Our economy is slipping to 2nd place in comparison to NKor's biggest ally. Even our intel appears shaky.

Heck, right now a dictator in Uganda could claim to be the Emperor of the Western United States & we wouldn't have a Cub Scout troop available to send over to set them straight.

It's obvious we tied our own hands down with a winless war vampirically draining our moral, coffers, & working class.

[Homsar]

I think an actual, proven nuclear threat might be a little more troop-generating then the debacle in Iraq.

[Shlep]

Schlep,

Threats/bluffs are meaningless if your opponent knows you can't back it up. Simple as that.

Agreed. But so far, Bush has only specified the threat of sanctions, which look quite likely albeit not entirely effective since North Korea is a pariah state that makes much of its money through illegal/shady channels as it is. Most of everything else I've heard is standard political boilerplate about how North Korea getting nukes is bad and totally not cool and so forth.

What do we have to convince NKor to "behave"? We are at a severe moment of weakness. Our standing army is engaged. Our "supreme war machine" has been proven to be suspect. Our traditional allies are suspicious of us. Our economy is slipping to 2nd place in comparison to NKor's biggest ally. Even our intel appears shaky.

Addressing each individually:

1) Yes, much of our standing army is engaged. But you only need troops to take and hold ground. Punitive air strikes (such as the ones the Israelis used previously to halt Irans' last bid for a high-profile nuke program back in '82) would make more sense as we have no need to occupy the entire sorry country. Perennial critics of the Bush administration seemed quite fine with projecting power via air strike and precision guided bombing on Clintons' watch; since they approved using such methods against the Serbs (who had no beef with us and were not a threat outside the Balkans) they should thus logically support Bush using tactics to prevent a certified nut-fudge like Kim Jong Il posessing the most destructive weapon known to man (two former top hands in the Clinton administration have already gone on record recommending, nay strongly urging, this course of action)

2) Our supreme war machine has proven itself perfectly adept at doing what it's supposed to do: locate, close with, and kill the enemy. They broke the back of the same Afghan holy warriors that kept the Soviets body for 9 years inside of 10 weeks, in sundered Iraqs' vaunted army in less time. What it has proven itself shaky at is the task of pacifying a widespread insurgency with one hand tied around its ass.

3) Our traditional allies are not entirely suspicious of us. They're still backing us quite readily in Afghanistan.

4) I can't even imagine what the state of our economy vs. that of Chinas' has to do with anything.

5) Intel has not always been an exact science. A nuclear explosion is decidedly easier to accurately identify than a suspected hidden cache of mustard gas, and we have secondary confirmation from multiple sources (including North Korea's dictator) that a nuke was set off.

Heck, right now a dictator in Uganda could claim to be the Emperor of the Western United States & we wouldn't have a Cub Scout troop available to send over to set them straight.

Nor would we need to. John Stewart mocking him from his desk at The Daily Show would do just fine.

It's obvious we tied our own hands down with a winless war vampirically draining our moral, coffers, & working class.

This again assumes that if we project military power in a limited manner that we'd need to send an occupying force. We do not.

[Homsar]

Plus Iraq is like 3 and 1/2 times bigger than NoKo.

[tempo]

Fuck invasion, nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

They mostly nuke at night... mostly.... ;)

[Duemellon]

2) Our supreme war machine has proven itself perfectly adept at doing what it's supposed to do:...Cute how you carefully phrased that. Don't think it wasn't noticed that you didn't say "Our supreme war machine is doing what it's supposed to be doing".3) Our traditional allies are not entirely suspicious of us. They're still backing us quite readily in Afghanistan.NKor isn't Afghn & they aren't all happy about Iraq. Backing "us" would mean they'd back those actions, but they don't seem all thrilled about it. Heck, in general I still back the move in Afghnstn4) I can't even imagine what the state of our economy vs. that of Chinas' has to do with anything.Power is the purest thing being sought after because Power leads to the ability to chose.

Money translates to power.5) Intel has not always been an exact science.Heck, science has not always been an exact science.

All in all, the situation is that we fucked up our own freedom to chose by getting involved in unnecessary wars & pissing of traditional allies. Now NKor realizes we can't do much of nothing to them.Plus Iraq is like 3 and 1/2 times bigger than NoKo.Even at less than 1/3 the size didn't the NKors win the war? hmmm.... I guess Vizzini classic blunders are correct: "...never get involved in a land war in Asia
Yah yah, he was not only quoting someone else

[back2vinyl]

I guess Truman blew it when he fired MacArthur.

What have they got? A bomb that fizzled with no way to deliver it and now they've ticked off China and everybody else. They kind of screwed themselves with this test if you ask me. We ought to just sit back and let them continue to fuck themselves.

[back2vinyl]

hmmm.... I guess Vizzini classic blunders are correct: "...never get involved in a land war in Asia

Absolutely fucking right on man.

[Shlep]

Cute how you carefully phrased that. Don't think it wasn't noticed that you didn't say "Our supreme war machine is doing what it's supposed to be doing".

There's nothing cute, careful, clever, duplicitous, disingenuous, or whatever in how I phrased what I did, Due. The military is supposed to be in the business of defending our sovereignty, maintaining our security, giving the weight of force behind policy and diplomacy, and projecting power to back our interests. They do this by breaking things, killing people, and seizing turf. They're not social workers or "nation builders."

NKor isn't Afghn & they aren't all happy about Iraq. Backing "us" would mean they'd back those actions, but they don't seem all thrilled about it. Heck, in general I still back the move in AfghnstnPower is the purest thing being sought after because Power leads to the ability to chose.

Like I said, or at least thought I was: hardly anyone is 100% thrilled with us and how we're steering our ship of state, any more than we are with them.

Money translates to power.

Then it would stand to reason that the the worlds' premier world power right now would be Dubai. Just how much dictating of international affairs are they doing these days? Meanwhile, poor and dumpy North Korea which doesn't have an economy worth mentioning is frequently front and center in the news and as a diplomatic concern.

Anyway, we're hardly hanging with the church mice even if China is doing well right now in the checkbook.

All in all, the situation is that we fucked up our own freedom to chose by getting involved in unnecessary wars & pissing of traditional allies. Now NKor realizes we can't do much of nothing to them.

Nonsense, Due. The current problem involves the threat of North Korea engaging in nuclear brinkmanship, something which we (and the Russians, and so far as I know the Chinese) are more than capable of countering. Anyway, even when we're weren't deploying troops for anything other than humanitarian missions and peacekeeping operations and Clinton was running the show (this being the period of time when the world supposedly loved us unconditionally,though this doesn't square with my recollection, but never mind...) North Korea was jamming its thumb in our eye over nukes.

The issue is not whether or not we *can* do anything; we can do a whole hell of a lot. Rather, it's the measure of our resolve to do anything, which is to say what we're willing to do and risk in dealing with them.

Even at less than 1/3 the size didn't the NKors win the war? hmmm.... I guess Vizzini classic blunders are correct: "...never get involved in a land war in Asia
Yah yah, he was not only quoting someone else

Absolutely fucking right on man.

If we didn't get involved in land wars with Asia, either the Japanese would own the Pacific Rim or North Korea would be just plain old 100% Commie Korea.

[Duemellon]

Personally I think we should blame Lincoln, he was a Repub. If he didn't preserve the union then we'd have NUS & SUS facing off & NKor & SKor wouldn't've happened at all.

I mean, really. Damn him & his stupid tyrannical plots!

[drougan]

Even at less than 1/3 the size didn't the NKors win the war? hmmm.... I guess Vizzini classic blunders are correct:
"...never get involved in a land war in Asia
If we didn't get involved in land wars with Asia, either the Japanese would own the Pacific Rim or North Korea would be just plain old 100% Commie Korea.

I suppose when properly put, the first statement should say "Never get involved in a land war in close proximity to a nuclear power and the most populous nation on the planet, when both of them have an ideological alignment with your adversary; unless of course you're content with something less than total victory." (at least in the case of the Korean War)


BTW, I love the phrase "Nuclear Brinksmanship", as dark a topic as it is.

[markalot]

It appears NK did not test a nuke OR it was a complete and total failure. Priceless.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/10/13/nkorea.test.sample/index.html

The other possibility is that by tempting NK into doing another test, one that might be more verifyiable, we can get them to screw up.

[drougan]

Seriously though...if the russians were right and it was somethink like a 7 kiloton explosion, how hard would it have been for the DPRK to rustle up 7,000 tons of tnt (or more likely the amfo equivalent) and set it off? there are plenty of big time mining operations that have to notify when they set off a major explosion because it triggers seismic sensors halfway around the world.

[markalot]

If I remember correctly a nuclear explosions is set off my a conventional explosion. It's possible they used a pretty big conventional explosion and for some reason it just didn't set offf the nuke. It's also possible that the NK scientists really don't have the knowledge so they lied to glorious leader and hoped he wouldn't notice.

[DaHood]

The conventional explosion is only used to drive the two radioactive elements together to create the nuclear reaction.

[dannyboy]

It sounds like it was a big dud.

[Homsar]

http://www.theonlinecandyshop.com/ProductImages/milkdudsbig.jpg

[back2vinyl]

If we didn't get involved in land wars with Asia, either the Japanese would own the Pacific Rim or North Korea would be just plain old 100% Commie Korea.

I've always thought of the pacific theater of WWII as a big navel battle. There was plenty of jungle fighting in the Philippians, but mostly, we were fighting along side Asians (Russia, China) against the Japanese. When it came time to invade Japan, we nuked 'em instead of landing troops.

As for Korea, I suppose I don't feel the sacrifice was worth keeping south Korea capitalist. Vietnam was a total waste if you ask me.

[back2vinyl]

If I remember correctly a nuclear explosions is set off my a conventional explosion. It's possible they used a pretty big conventional explosion and for some reason it just didn't set offf the nuke. It's also possible that the NK scientists really don't have the knowledge so they lied to glorious leader and hoped he wouldn't notice.

A "Fat Man" style implosion bomb only uses about 400 lb of conventional explosives. Adding more won't help if the explosive lens design doesn't give you good 3-D symmetrical compression of the core, it will just blow the plutonium into smaller bits. If you believe the west's estimates of yield, NK either had a fizzle or just tried to pull a hoax with a large amount of conventional explosives.

[dannyboy]

Nuke test confirmed (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061016/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_nkorea_test_6;_ylt=Ara.L5ufhpy8JpMqf0Wr6zmCscEA ;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl)
By KATHERINE SHRADER, Associated Press Writer2 hours, 26 minutes ago
Air samples gathered last week contain radioactive materials that confirm that North Korea conducted an underground nuclear explosion, National Intelligence Director John Negroponte's office said Monday.

In a short statement posted on its Web site, Negroponte's office also confirmed that the size of the explosion was less than 1 kiloton, a comparatively small nuclear detonation. Each kiloton is equal to the force produced by 1,000 tons of TNT.

"Analysis of air samples collected on October 11, 2006, detected radioactive debris which confirms that North Korea conducted an underground nuclear explosion in the vicinity of P'unggye on October 9, 2006," the statement said.

On Friday, a senior Bush administration official told The Associated Press that one test conducted on samples gathered after the detonation found a radioactive gas consistent with a nuclear explosion. At the time, however, U.S. intelligence was not ready to confirm that a nuclear test actually had taken place.

The statement from Negroponte's office provides the first official confirmation from the United States that a nuclear detonation took place, as Pyongyang has claimed.

U.S. intelligence has been poring over data collected since the explosion — air samples, seismic readings, satellite imagery and communications intercepts — in an effort to reach a conclusion on the nature of the test.

A key clue came from air samples collected by the Air Force's WC-135 Constant Phoenix, a jet designed to collect particles and gases in the air after the nuclear test. Samples are rushed back to labs in the United States for study before they loose their radioactive properties.

The first reading on Tuesday was negative, but a test on a second sample collected Wednesday was positive, according to a U.S. government intelligence official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive situation with Pyongyang.

The official said that the North Korean device was believed to be roughly the equivalent of 200 tons of TNT, suggesting to analysts that it was probably a partial failure. Experts in and out of government had expected a detonation of at least several thousand tons.

The findings from U.S. intelligence agencies come at a diplomatically sensitive time.

Citing new inspections by the Chinese of trucks bound for North Korea, the Bush administration said earlier Monday that it expected Beijing would do its part in enforcing a U.N. resolution punishing its reclusive ally for its nuclear program.

This came as Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice prepares to visit the region this week.

R. Nicholas Burns, undersecretary of state for political affairs, pointed to the fact that Chinese customs inspectors had begun inspecting cargo trucks bound for North Korea in the border city of Dandong. Japan and Australia, meanwhile, announced Monday that they might take measures beyond the new U.N. sanctions.

"We have indications this morning the Chinese are beginning to apply this to their very long land border" with North Korea, Burns said on CBS' "The Early Show." "We also have announcements from Japan and Australia. I spoke to both governments this morning. They are both implementing this."

He said there will be "enormous pressure on China to live up to their responsibility" in enforcing United Nations punishment of its ally, North Korea. "We are all banking on that."

White House press secretary Tony Snow said President Bush had not personally been making any calls Monday on the matter. Snow urged patience before judging China's commitment to the inspections.

"The parties have committed to fulfilling its conditions," Snow said. "Let's see what happens, all right?"

Rice, who joined U.N. Ambassador John Bolton in making the rounds of the Sunday talk shows, plans a series of talks aimed at easing tensions among countries already on edge because of the test. "I understand that people are concerned about how it might work so it doesn't enhance tensions in the region, and we're perfectly willing to have those conversations," she said.

The United States would not be surprised if North Korea were to attempt a second nuclear test sometime soon, said the U.S. government intelligence official and two others, who also spoke on condition of anonymity.

The officials said the decision to test is considered a political one, and North Korea will be closely watching action at the United Nations and elsewhere.

The U.S.-sponsored U.N. resolution demands that North Korea eliminate nuclear weapons but rules out military action against the country, as the Russians and Chinese demanded.

After the resolution unanimously passed, North Korea's U.N. ambassador accused council members of a "gangster-like" action that neglects the nuclear threat posed by the United States.

Meanwhile, a leading Senate Republican urged direct talks with North Korea, as the reclusive nation has sought. "We do need to engage the North Koreans" because the U.N. resolution is weak and limited, said Sen. Chuck Hagel (news, bio, voting record) of Nebraska, the second-ranking Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

But Rice brushed aside such calls, reaffirming the U.S. commitment to six-nation disarmament talks, which have stalled.

___

[gwar469]

that nuclear test was nothing but a fizzle... A FIZZLE!!

http://www.planet-familyguy.com/pfg/images/characters/black_knight_tn.jpg

[DaHood]

I wonder how much environmental damage this caused. I wonder how well it was contained to the area of the test. I wonder how many people could get cancer because of this.

[mugshot]

quote by r.e.m. Its the end of the world as we know it. and i feel fine

[Duemellon]

So, if I had a nuclear reactor & put about 7,000 lbs of TNT with about 7,000 lbs of nuclear waste from reactor processes, that's more like a big dirty bomb than a nuclear/fission-driven explosion, right?

It would create radioactive residue.

It wouldn't be a kiloton.

& if someone read the readings & wanted to say it was nuclear to scare others into action, they could. Even though it was a dirty bomb?

[Homsar]

So really, shouldn't the US buy the bombs? It'd be win/win.

[Shlep]

I've always thought of the pacific theater of WWII as a big navel battle. There was plenty of jungle fighting in the Philippians, but mostly, we were fighting along side Asians (Russia, China) against the Japanese. When it came time to invade Japan, we nuked 'em instead of landing troops.

While it is true that the Pacific Theater was host to a series of pitched naval battles over control of shipping lanes in the region (i.e MIdway, Coral Sea) US and ANZACS troops spent much of the time between 1942 and 1945 fighting in the "island hopping" campaign, the aim of which was to gradually seize control of several smaller, key islands from the Japanese and position Allied forces for a possible invasion of Japan. This involved fighting some of the bloodiest and most brutal battles of the war in places like Tarawa, Saipan, and Iwo Jimo. Iwo was one of the worst; the Marines landed when the tide was in, forcing them to wade in chest-deep water 500 yards through a blizzard of Japanese machinegun fire and artillery before even getting on the beach, where the Japanese were set in fortified bunkers that our air and naval gunfire support couldn't take out. My late uncle Jack earned a Silver Star for conspicuous gallantry and a Purple Heart in that one.

[OldManIndieKid]

I've always thought of the pacific theater of WWII as a big navel battle. I'm chuckling at the thought of all these tiny little soldiers battling it out in a big belly button.