r.i.p. online poker?

[Donyo]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/30/AR2006093000024.html

House and Senate negotiators reached agreement last night on legislation to tighten maritime and port security regulations and, in a last-minute move, added an unrelated measure that seeks to ban Internet gambling.

Apparently the poison pill provision will make it illegal for banks and credit card comapnies to deal with online casinos. Naturally it passed with an overwhelming majority, because who in their right mind would vote against port security?

I'm so glad our leaders are looking out for our safety. http://media.theinsiders.com/Media/Other/229031_flagus.GIF

[Marlowe]

yeah i love how it's bad to gamble online, but oh yeah please buy lottery tickets because they help pay for our schools!

the smartest thing they could do would be to make it legal, and then they could make massive, massive $$ off of tax receipts. instead, all of these companies locate in places like malta.

this is completely ridicurous.

[Homsar]

We need WOXY people in government.

[classicgrrl]

We need WOXY people in government.

oh boy.
I'm not touching that one.

interestingly enough, OH is attepting to pass a bill right now that would take 7 racetracks throughout the state and make them a monopoly and they would donate $ to colleges. but not all colleges. just to some colleges.

:rolleyes:

[BigSugar]

LOL! the credit card/bank lobby could get an entire bankruptcy reform bill passed to fuck over people hit with extraordinairy medical expenses and catastrophic situational debt, but they can't defeat this?? that's gonna cost them billions......look for this to fail at some point.

[Marlowe]

below is a good article from george will on this issue. the GOP deserves to lose control of congress for this alone.

--------------------------
When government restricts Americans' choices, ostensibly for their own
good, someone is going to profit from the paternalism.

By George F. Will

Perhaps Prohibition II is being launched because Prohibition I worked
so well at getting rid of gin. Or maybe the point is to reassure social
conservatives that Republicans remain resolved to purify Americans'
behavior. Incorrigible cynics will say Prohibition II is being
undertaken because someone stands to make money from interfering with
other people making money.

For whatever reason, last Friday the president signed into law
Prohibition II. You almost have to admire the government's plucky
refusal to heed history's warnings about the probable futility of this
adventure. This time the government is prohibiting Internet gambling by
making it illegal for banks or credit-card companies to process
payments to online gambling operations on a list the government will
prepare.

Last year about 12 million Americans wagered $6 billion online. But
after Congress, 32 minutes before adjourning, passed its ban, the stock
of the largest online-gambling business, Gibraltar-based PartyGaming,
which gets 85 percent of its $1 billion annual revenue from Americans,
declined 58 percent in one day, wiping out about $5 billion in market
value. The stock of a British company, World Gaming PLC, which gets
about 95 percent of its revenue from Americans, plunged 88 percent. The
industry, which has some 2,300 Web sites and did half of its business
last year with Americans, has lost $8 billion in market value because
of the new law. And you thought the 109th Congress did not accomplish
anything.

Supporters of the new law say it merely strengthens enforcement; they
claim that Internet gambling is illegal under the Wire Act enacted in
1961, before Al Gore, who was then 13, had invented the Internet. But
not all courts agree. Supporters of the new law say online gambling
sends billions of dollars overseas. But the way to keep the money here
is to decriminalize the activity.

The number of online American gamblers, although just one sixth the
number of Americans who visit real casinos annually, doubled in the
last year. This competition alarms the nation's biggest gambling
interests-state governments.

It is an iron law: When government uses laws, tariffs and regulations
to restrict the choices of Americans, ostensibly for their own good,
someone is going to make money from the paternalism. One of the big
winners from the government's action against online gambling will be
the state governments that are America's most relentless promoters of
gambling. Forty-eight states (all but Hawaii and Utah) have some form
of legalized gambling. Forty-two states have lottery monopolies.
Thirty-four states rake in part of the take from casino gambling, slot
machines or video poker.

The new law actually legalizes online betting on horse racing, Internet
state lotteries and some fantasy sports. The horse-racing industry is a
powerful interest. The solidarity of the political class prevents the
federal officials from interfering with state officials' lucrative
gambling. And woe unto the politicians who get between a sports fan and
his fun.

In the private sector, where realism prevails, casino operators are not
hot for criminalizing Internet gambling. This is so for two reasons: It
is not in their interest for government to wax censorious. And online
gambling might whet the appetites of millions for the real casino
experience.

Granted, some people gamble too much. And some people eat too many
cheeseburgers. But who wants to live in a society that protects the
weak-willed by criminalizing cheeseburgers? Besides, the
problems-frequently exaggerated-of criminal involvement in
gambling, and of underage and addictive gamblers, can be best dealt
with by legalization and regulation utilizing new software solutions.
Furthermore, taxation of online poker and other gambling could generate
billions for governments.

Prohibition I was a porous wall between Americans and their martinis,
giving rise to bad gin supplied by bad people. Prohibition II will
provoke imaginative evasions as the market supplies what gamblers will
demand-payment methods beyond the reach of Congress.

But governments and sundry busybodies seem affronted by the Internet,
as they are by any unregulated sphere of life. The speech police are
itching to bring bloggers under campaign-finance laws that control the
quantity, content and timing of political discourse. And now, by
banning a particular behavior-the entertainment some people choose,
using their own money-government has advanced its mother-hen agenda
of putting a saddle and bridle on the Internet.

[wombat18]

Will they ban NetTeller as well, or do we simply have to funnel our gambling dollars through such a third-party? Seems like they'd have a hard time banning banks! :p

[Marlowe]

no you can still use neteller, and they (neteller) have confirmed that they are not going anywhere. some online sites (party poker most prominent among them) have gotten out of the US market, though, and there's a chill in the air among the remaining sites like pokerstars.

george will's analogy to prohibition is an apt one. this is an unsustainable ban in the long run and they'll eventually have to bow to reality. but nevertheless it's an example of big government playing the role of big brother, which should be worrying to everyone, gambler or not.

[Donyo]

no you can still use neteller, and they (neteller) have confirmed that they are not going anywhere. some online sites (party poker most prominent among them) have gotten out of the US market, though, and there's a chill in the air among the remaining sites like pokerstars.

And yet PartyPoker hasn't pulled their TV ads, so who knows what their real plans are. Honestly I can't see this law affecting anyone individually. It necessarily doesn't ban you from gambling online, it only makes it tougher to get your money into the casinos. If you're dealing with overseas banks and overseas casinos, there's nothing the US government can do about it.

[The_Deacon]

That's because they are advertising partypoker.NET not com. .NET is play money only. I can't imagine anyone wanting to play poker for free/fun but there might be some out there.

I play on pokerstars.net with play money all the time. I enjoy the hell out of it. It is somthing fun to do while I am listening to music. I would never pay to play poker on line. I also have been to a casino and only spent a dollar on a slot, and lost. So I was pissed I lost that dollar, and I just walked around and drank beer.

Obviously I don't gamble away my hard earned money, but I don't know why you can't imagine playing poker for free/fun :confused:

[DaHood]

Obviously I don't gamble away my hard earned money, I drink it.
Fixeded !

:cool:

[The_Deacon]

Fixeded !

:cool:
u fuker :mad: :p

[The_Deacon]

Probably just different philosophies. I play the game to win - which can make poker a tedious - sometimes boring - game. I've got a little bit of gamble in me, so that's how I've always viewed it.

If you play just as a time waster/diversion then more power to you. :D

EDIT: Here's what the Freakonomics guys have to say about it (http://www.freakonomics.com/blog/2006/10/26/the-party-poker-puzzle/)
I don't have the gamble in me. My Mom does, and she has trashed her life with it.

There really some good poker players that play for free. You should try it. it is boring somtimes, but if you lose out....nothing lost. that is why it is fun.

losing in real life too many times is enough for me. losing my money on a game would put me over the edge. life it self, is game enough for me, and the stakes are huge every hand. :cool:

[DaHood]

u fuker :mad: :p
heheh, I'll be right there with you beer in hand.

:cool:

[Marlowe]

There really some good poker players that play for free. You should try it. it is boring somtimes, but if you lose out....nothing lost. that is why it is fun.
one this is for sure... you have to have a bit of a disregard for money in order to be a successful poker player either online or in a casino. if you start to think in terms of "f'ing hell, i'm betting a plane ticket to california", or "i just lost a good steak dinner", then you will invariably get run over.

so, it's good for you that you recognize where your priorities lie, because most people don't.

[classicgrrl]

I can definitely understand playing poker for fun with play money.

What I can't understand, seriously, is really playing ANY game of chance at all. If you cannot control the outcome by getting better or by learning new skills and the game is controlled by chance (ultimately, poker is controlled by chance although there is skill involved) they why the hell bother.

I detest all card games because of this.

I detest games of chance. useless, pointless endeavors they are.

interestingly enough - thats what bugs me about life. ultimately, it is a game controlled by chance although there is definitely skill involved.

give me a bad ass game of Othello anyday.

[Donyo]

What I can't understand, seriously, is really playing ANY game of chance at all. If you cannot control the outcome by getting better or by learning new skills and the game is controlled by chance (ultimately, poker is controlled by chance although there is skill involved) they why the hell bother.

I detest all card games because of this.

Poker is essentially a game of chance like all other card games, but good poker players profit by playing their opponents moreso than the actual cards. If you make smart decisions based on good reads, the chance part of it becomes less relevant.

Contrast this with a game like blackjack, which is basically as pointless as throwing all your money onto the roulette wheel.

Regarding playing poker for fun with playchips, that's how I learned the game, but it's a completely different game at those tables. Your style of play changes when you don't care if you lose your entire stack in one hand. That's why the only surefire way to improve your game is to simply jump into the real thing and disregard all those steak dinners that you could be losing at any given time.

[Marlowe]

(ultimately, poker is controlled by chance although there is skill involved)
your statement is the reverse of what it should be, "ultimately poker is controlled by skill, although there is chance involved".

in the short run, anything can happen. but in the long run, there is absolutely no question that skill triumphs and luck doesn't have anything to do with it. the thing i love about poker is just how many different skills it takes to win, and you will never find the end point of things you can learn.

in fact, that's why i play 90% at casinos now instead of online. when you are live, there are even more skills to use, pieces of information to absorb, and variables to consider. it may not be for everyone, but it's a fascinating game that provides me both with great challenges to overcome and quite a bit of money in my pocket for my efforts.