More 2004 election questions arise

[Dirk]

Article from Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060223/ap_on_el_pr/florida_voting). You can get more detailed info from the source, Black Box Voting (http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi?file=/1954/19421.html).

Watchdog Group Questions 2004 Fla. Vote

By BRIAN SKOLOFF, Associated Press Writer Thu Feb 23, 3:53 PM ET

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - An examination of Palm Beach County's electronic voting machine records from the 2004 election found possible tampering and tens of thousands of malfunctions and errors, a watchdog group said Thursday.
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Bev Harris, founder of BlackBoxVoting.org, said the findings call into question the outcome of the presidential race. But county officials and the maker of the electronic voting machines strongly disputed that and took issue with the findings.

Voting problems would have had to have been widespread across the state to make a difference.
President Bush won Florida — and its 27 electoral votes — by 381,000 votes in 2004. Overall, he defeated
John Kerry by 286 to 252 electoral votes, with 270 needed for victory.

BlackBoxVoting.org, which describes itself as a nonpartisan, nonprofit citizens group, said it found 70,000 instances in Palm Beach County of cards getting stuck in the paperless ATM-like machines and that the computers logged about 100,000 errors, including memory failures.

Also, the hard drives crashed on some of the machines made by Oakland, Calif.-based Sequoia Voting Systems, some machines apparently had to be rebooted over and over, and 1,475 re-calibrations were performed on Election Day on more than 4,300 units, Harris said. Re-calibrations are done when a machine is malfunctioning, she said.

"I actually think there's enough votes in play in Florida that it's anybody's guess who actually won the presidential race," Harris added. "But with that said, there's no way to tell who the votes should have gone to."

Palm Beach County and other parts of the country switched to electronic equipment after the turbulent 2000 presidential election, when the county's butterfly ballot confused some voters and led them to cast their votes for third-party candidate
Pat Buchanan instead of
Al Gore. The Supreme Court halted a recount after 36 days and handed a 537-vote victory to Bush.

Palm Beach County election officials said the BlackBoxVoting.com findings are flawed, and they blamed most of the errors on voters not following proper procedures.

"Their results are noteworthy for consideration, but in a majority of instances they can be explained," said Arthur Anderson, the county's elections supervisor. "All of these circumstances are valid reasons for concern, but they do not on face value substantiate that the machines are not reliable."

Sequoia spokeswoman Michelle Shafer disputed the findings, saying the company's machines worked properly. Sequoia's machines are used in five Florida counties and in 21 states.

"There was a fine election in November 2004," Shafer said.

She said many of the errors in the computer logs could have resulted from voters improperly inserting their user cards into the machines. The remaining errors would not affect the vote results because each unit has a backup system, she said.

Jenny Nash, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of State, which oversees elections, said she was not aware of the report and had no comment.

Harris said one machine showed that 112 votes were cast on Oct. 16, two days before the start of early voting, a possible sign of tampering. She said the group found evidence of tampering on more than 30 machines in the county.

However, Harris said it was impossible to determine what information was altered or if votes were shifted among candidates.

[tobedawg]

ya know if liberals would put more time and energy into trying to come up with a plan for taking the country back rather than focusing on perceived voter fraud in 2004 maybe there might be a chance that 2008 could possibly be won.. maybe..

unlike 2000, there weren't really many questions that could be posed about the 2004 elections except for maybe the exit poll results..

[frizgolf]

Palm Beach County election officials said the BlackBoxVoting.com findings are flawed, and they blamed most of the errors on voters not following proper procedures.

"Their results are noteworthy for consideration, but in a majority of instances they can be explained," said Arthur Anderson, the county's elections supervisor. "All of these circumstances are valid reasons for concern, but they do not on face value substantiate that the machines are not reliable."

Sequoia spokeswoman Michelle Shafer disputed the findings, saying the company's machines worked properly. Sequoia's machines are used in five Florida counties and in 21 states.

"There was a fine election in November 2004," Shafer said.

She said many of the errors in the computer logs could have resulted from voters improperly inserting their user cards into the machines. The remaining errors would not affect the vote results because each unit has a backup system, she said.

Jenny Nash, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of State, which oversees elections, said she was not aware of the report and had no comment.

Harris said one machine showed that 112 votes were cast on Oct. 16, two days before the start of early voting, a possible sign of tampering. She said the group found evidence of tampering on more than 30 machines in the county.

However, Harris said it was impossible to determine what information was altered or if votes were shifted among candidates.
Yet more evidence that this election was carried out much like every one before it since the beginning of time, that is to say, someone tried to cheat.
This article proves to me that there is, was, and never will be a perfect way to count ballots, except in very small elections, and that we, as a nation, are trying our best to correct counting errors. It also proves that people still have trouble following instructions.
If this was posted to coronate John Kerry or even Al Gore, sorry, I'm over it. If it was posted to further show Bush cronyism, sorry, I'm past that, too.

[REMgirl]

Since when is it a bad idea to revisit problems from the past? Historians do it all the time. It's important to know if vote tampering took place in order to keep it from happening the next time.

Ohio was one of the key states in the last election, and will be again. If Diebold machines are used and they are faulty, then let's find out now before we use them again.

We have every right to explore questionable election practices and stop the illegal ones.

[Dirk]

This isn't about showing that Bush lost or cheated or whatever. This isn't partisan. This is about having fair elections. Obviously there are MAJOR issues with these electronic voting machines and it is nearly impossible to find out what they are. Hell, it took this long just to confirm that there were major issues. I like the idea of electronic voting machine, but only if it is an open and verifiable system (which is the opposite of what most politicians are pushing).

Was there corruption in the last election? We'll never know either way because we have no to verify what people actually voted vs. what the machines reported. We need a system that is capable of being verified by independent people. We especially need a system that is open to review, since it has been shown when people can cheat, they probably will. Having a black box where no one can see what is going on inside of it is not the way to run an election. this is about not setting up a system where people can easily cheat and it can't be detected.

[euro60]

I haven't laughed this hard in a LONG LONG time.... Keep on navel-staring! Meanwhile the Dems are about to lose another election (or two) ;)

[Homsar]

President Bush won Florida by 381,000 votes in 2004.

BlackBoxVoting.org, said that the computers logged about 100,000 errors, including memory failures.

Last time I checked, 100,000 wasn't more than half of 381,000, so whatever.

[noonan]

I find the elections supervisor's name mildly amusing given the context of the article.

[markalot]

I find the elections supervisor's name mildly amusing given the context of the article.

It's a family affair.

[BigSugar]

I hear that there were some issues with the Chicago mayoral elections back in the 50's and 60's too!! we should recount and remove that bastard Daley from office!! (when was he in office? i have no idea. whenever it was, we should recount, b/c.......well, just b/c!)

here's a plan. after an election, all the stuff should be boxed and stored. Any newspaper or political party that wants to root through the stuff/issues and bring up alleged discrepancies years later should have to submit a budget for what it will cost. then they'll have to match that amount with donations to homeless shelters and childrens advocacy centers in the county/state where they are searching. if it's gonna cost a million bucks, that means that homeless shelters and childrens advocacy centers will get an additional million bucks. pay to play.