Buy Danish

[Q_Destroyer]

For those of you that have been following the news lately you've probably seen the insane reaction over a few political cartoons first published by a Danish newspaper and later by the French, Germans, and the US. Found this link while reading up on the craziness that is spreading like a wild fire all over a few ink strokes on paper.

http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/21097.html

[something]

I don't fully understand what's going on. Is there another article with a more detailed explanation of the Saudi/Danish problem?

[aqualou]

I don't fully understand what's going on. Is there another article with a more detailed explanation of the Saudi/Danish problem?
yes there is (http://woxy.com/boards/showthread.php?t=35245)

[Q_Destroyer]

There are plenty. Here are some from over the past few days when this broke. This first one's a yahoo photo slide-show with images from all over the place chock full of "peaceful" people. I didn't really have the time to post the links in order. Had to dig through my history for them. But you can go to any news site and see how badly this is escalating. 3 embassy's have been destroyed so far.

Shiny Happy People Holding Hands (http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/wl/020106danishcartoons;_ylt=AlKYsNhaMkGi5GLoCXtm3b.a K8MA;_ylu=X3oDMTA5bGVna3NhBHNlYwNzc3JlbA--)

News 1 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060203/wl_nm/religion_cartoons_indonesia_dc_1)

News 2 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1701518,00.html)

News 3 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4675462.stm)

News 4 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060203/ap_on_re_mi_ea/prophet_drawings;_ylt=AkYs2y.wFEhkYjKpVEPHurWs0NUE ;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-)

News 5 (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-02/02/content_4130255.htm)

News 6 (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/03/cartoon.controversy/index.html)

News 6 (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/010008.php#more)

News 7 (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/02/02/cartoons.wrap/index.html)

News 8 (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1889584,00.html)

[something]

cool.
you're the best, al!

[mcas]

"...a few ink strokes on paper..."

The problem is not that the comic was insulting, the issue at heart is that Islam forbids the drawing, sculpting, or even written description of Muhammad or God.

Basically, a drawing of Muhammad (whether or not insulting) is against their religion.

That's the problem... secondarily, is that they are characterizing the entire religion as violent, which is ridiculous.

[Q_Destroyer]

The problem is not that the comic was insulting, the issue at heart is that Islam forbids the drawing, sculpting, or even written description of Muhammad or God.

This is true. But even deeper is that the artists were hired to depict Westerner's stereotypes of Muslims, NOT to stereotype Muslims. Islamic states are over-reacting because they are non-secular and do not understand serperation of church and state, along with freedom of the press. In their eyes this is an afront of Danish government who they belive sponsored the cartoons and allow for the press to print them.


That's the problem... secondarily, is that they are characterizing the entire religion as violent, which is ridiculous.

Islamic states do a much better job of characterizing themselves as violent then any press coverage could ever do. If I were a religious group and I did not want anyone outside this sect to view us this way, then the logical thing to do is to march around burning and destroying buildings carrying signs using words such as "Death" "Slay" "Behead" etc. Clearly people would not think a collection of people violent at all. That would be too obvious.

[slopechz]

The Muslims need to get a sense of humor. When it comes to religion, the shit hits the fan.

[Furry Varmint]

http://movies.apple.com/moviesxml/s/warner_independent_pictures/posters/lookingforcomedyinthemuslimworld_l200510281540.jpg

[purple_octopus]

"...a few ink strokes on paper..."

The problem is not that the comic was insulting, the issue at heart is that Islam forbids the drawing, sculpting, or even written description of Muhammad or God.

Basically, a drawing of Muhammad (whether or not insulting) is against their religion.

That's the problem... secondarily, is that they are characterizing the entire religion as violent, which is ridiculous.
I understand why they are upset, and they have every right to be offended. They even have every right to be pissed off, protest, and boycott Danish goods. However, destroying property and throwing gasoline bombs at embassies is inexcusable. Furthermore, it promotes the stereotyping of Muslims by Westerners -- the very stereotypes that the cartoon was criticizing.

Offending someone is not a good reason to ban free speech. Banning an act solely because it is against a religion is also unacceptable. We are in a Christian-dominant culture in the US. Would it be acceptable to ban abortion solely because Christianity forbids it? How about gay marriage? I have a feeling that the vast majority of the people who post here would not think so.

[Dirk]

PO: While we may not think it's right, gay marriage certainly is illegal.

I think part of the problem is that people are confusing the religion of Islam with the culture in the Middle East. It isn't Islam that is causing these riots, it is the culture. The Muslims in the US aren't rioting, because it is a different culture. If you put Christians in the same culture and them published pictures of Jesus buttfucking a goat, I think the same thing would happen. It isn't the religion, it is the culture.

[purple_octopus]

PO: While we may not think it's right, gay marriage certainly is illegal.
I realize this, but that is not the question I posed. I asked if it should be illegal solely because Christianity forbids it The key words, of course, being "should" and "solely".

[uselesstomato]

my mother is american, my father is saudi, and one of my best friends in the entire world is danish.

that is why my left lung is at war with my kidney... who is boycotting goods from my pancreas.

[justa bill]

the thing i don't get is why the "extremely upset people" are protesting the Danish government. or maybe i do get it, but i am afriad to say that perhaps those extremely upset people simply do not understand freedom.

a free Danish citizen made a statement. it may not have been a wise statement to make given how Van Gogh ended up (theo, that is) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4716909.stm), but it was his right to make it. it was no one's statement but his. if people are upset and refuse to accept his statement they are free to do what the catholics do: excommunicate him.

(you know, they finally stopped killing people for the things they may say...=)

it's a shame to see the cartoon being used to further racism. because that's what it is when a white caucasian makes a statement and all other white caucasian are attacked for the statement.

So yeah, buy Danish! :cool: ( it's a not a bad thing to do that anyway... ; )

[something]

PO: While we may not think it's right, gay marriage certainly is illegal.

I think part of the problem is that people are confusing the religion of Islam with the culture in the Middle East. It isn't Islam that is causing these riots, it is the culture. The Muslims in the US aren't rioting, because it is a different culture. If you put Christians in the same culture and them published pictures of Jesus buttfucking a goat, I think the same thing would happen. It isn't the religion, it is the culture.


jesus buttfucking a goat?
put that in the louvre!

[Q_Destroyer]

It isn't Islam that is causing these riots, it is the culture. The Muslims in the US aren't rioting, because it is a different culture.

This is also not true. Islam IS the culture in Islamic states. Why this is true is because they do not have secular societies. I've posted about this before on a different thread. The reason being is that Islamic states are governed by the Sharia, which is the code of laws handed down by god to the prophet Muhammed. Sharia law is what is going to prevent a majority of Islamic states from meshing with secular countries because within them there can be no higher governing force then god.

The US and most countries in the world share in the benefits of having a secular society where for the most part church and state have been seperated. Since it is a democracy here religious wingnuts can take power and let their beliefs influence their decisions while in a government official position. But it is very difficult for them to shape society because of this. Existing within a secular realm also grants us the ability to scrutinize and deconstruct ideas and beliefs without fear of being killed. Most Islamic states do not allow for this. Here is one example (http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=16242) that is not an isolated event.

Sharia law will also prevent Islamic cultures from going through a deconstructionist period anytime soon. To suggest the words of Muhammed are allegory or anything other then fact means death in some cultures. I will repost when I find it, but a College professor suggest this very idea to his college class, only to be picked up by his sutdents and thrown out of a 2 story window just for this. I will repost the details soon on this.

[markalot]

Well,

whatever you call what is happening in the middle east, it has to stop. If it's Islam, then Islam has to change or be eradicated. If these people are just hijacking a good religion then the 'good' of the religion must take it back and deal with the hijackers. It's not enough to sit by and watch something you love be destroyed.

Please note my use of the word IF before going off :)

[uselesstomato]

. It's not enough to sit by and watch something you love be destroyed.


truth

but... there is also only so much one person can do (i am only speaking for myself here).

i've done things, and i feel good about what i've done. my animated short is such a thing. just talking to ppl about myself and how i think and act compared to the ppl who are causing trouble is such a thing.

should i do more? should i be expected to start a revolution and get rid of all the ppl using islam in a horrible way? (not saying you or anyone is suggesting this of course...just using it as an example)

i hope others in that region step up and try to do something, i hope we see change in a good way.

all i know, is i try to affect change in the ways i know how. its not much. but i try.


(keep in mind... i dont think anyone is pointing fingers at me, or expecting me to change the world or do anything... but i know myself better than anyone else... that is why i use myself as an example)

[markalot]

truth

but... there is also only so much one person can do (i am only speaking for myself here).

i've done things, and i feel good about what i've done. my animated short is such a thing. just talking to ppl about myself and how i think and act compared to the ppl who are causing trouble is such a thing.

should i do more? should i be expected to start a revolution and get rid of all the ppl using islam in a horrible way? (not saying you or anyone is suggesting this of course...just using it as an example)

i hope others in that region step up and try to do something, i hope we see change in a good way.

all i know, is i try to affect change in the ways i know how. its not much. but i try.


(keep in mind... i dont think anyone is pointing fingers at me, or expecting me to change the world or do anything... but i know myself better than anyone else... that is why i use myself as an example)

likewise this isn't directed at you ...

The reality is that if the voices of moderation in the Islamic world don't start speaking out, and speaking out with conviction, the religion is lost. Someone has to condemn, I mean CONDEMN these protestors as enemies of Islam because, if what I know of Islam is correct, they ARE the enemies.

This is why I already think it's already a lost cause. They have repeated opportunities and yet don't take them for fear, I suppose, of reprisal.

1. We have terrorism in the name of Islam.

2. We have a silly cartoon dipicting muhammad.

#1 should have sent the masses of moderates into the streets, but it didn't happen. The reality may be that moderates are now in the minority, and if that's the case I (personally) want nothing to do with Muslims or Islam because it's a failed (corrupted) religion.

I really don't think moderate muslims understand the issue but someday you may see people claiming to be a true-muslim, instead of just a muslim.

For comparison: when Pat nutjob Robertson told us that Sharon was suffering because god was punishing him just about every single christian leader who anyone would listen too condemned his statements, including the president.

When Robertson said that that city in Penn. was going to hell (or whatever it was) because they voted out intelligent design he got the same universal condemnation.

The condemnation is swift and vocal because the religious leaders don't want people who don't understand to get the wrong idea and think this moron is main stream. And it's not organized and doesn't need to be organized. Bill doesn't talk to Bob doesn't talk to Fred doesn't talk to Billy. They each know, independently, how important it is to keep the extreme views down.

In the middle east, we seem to have few willing to do this, which means we have few moderates which means middle eastern muslims are corrupt.

[Dirk]

Once again though, I think that is cultural, not religious. The middle east is an oppresive society. The tool of oppression happens to be islam for a lot of things, but I don't think it would make a difference if it was islam, or paganism, or christianity, the religion is just the tool. When christianity was the dominant form of repression (which admittedly was a few hundred years ago), you had equally as outrageous and assinine things happening.

so yes, what is happening is fairly stupid, but it isn't the fault of islam, it is the culture in the region. It is a region that is oppresive, that has many extremely poor people, that doesn't have the freedom of other places. But if you look at the muslims outside the region, they are not reacting the same way, which points to region/culture, not the religion itself (or everyone who practices the religion).

[despondent]

yeah, I'll buy :p
http://www.nishimuta.net/images/danish.jpg

[miami2112]

a free Danish citizen made a statement. it may not have been a wise statement to make given how Van Gogh ended up (theo, that is) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4716909.stm), but it was his right to make it. it was no one's statement but his. if people are upset and refuse to accept his statement they are free to do what the catholics do: excommunicate him.


nice, kill any dissenter to your religion.

mind control, anyone??