Adobe Illustrator Question

[Groove Holmes]

Hey, does anyone here use Illustrator? I predominantly work in Photoshop & Quark at work, but I toy around with Illustrator for some text stuff now and then...

I keep meaning to bring in my "Classroom in a Book" to work through during my slower times, but they never seem to come.

Anyway, the question I have right now, is that I have to recreate this logo with text wrapped around a circular path. The top of the circle is easy enough to recreate, but the words on the bottom are wrapped from the top of the letter, not the bottom. Is there an easy way to do this? I need to do it in Illustrator, because the text is not warped at all, just wrapped...So in other words, I need the bottom word on the circle to be Right Side Up.

I'm sure its pretty basic, but my illustrator knowledge is lacking.

Thanks for any help...and once my question gets answered, feel free to use this thread as a place to post cool Illustrator tips & links for me!

Thanks a ton to anyone!
Greg

[skidminix]

When you have the text on the path, use the selection tool (black arrow) and either double click the I-beam that you see in front of the text or just grab it and drag it through to the other side of the path - that will make it run counter-clockwise. You'll probably then need to shift the baseline of the text (character palette) to get it underneath.

[Stine]

Yeah, what skid said - just grab the levers on the text path and start pulling up, down, around, eventually the text will flip around.

Quark? *shudder!*

[Groove Holmes]

Perfect! Sweet...I learned something new.

Thanks a lot guys...in what capacity are you using Illustrator?

I design ads for a directory, and yes...they still use Quark. The viewer is so crappy its unbelievable...but its still light years better than photoshop for text.

The company supposedly is switching everyone over to InDesign, but then again, I've gat my second monitor sitting here collecting dust since they promised my a new G5 ever since I started here.

So I guess its quark for now. Is there a big learning curve for making the switch from Quark to InDesign? I know I'll at least be happy to have everything streamlined in Adobe Software, should make things a little better.


Of course, none of this would be necessary if the companies that advertise had advertising materials...apparently a "newsprint photocopy on yellow paper thats folded in half with pen marks and a tear in it" is the predominant choice for logo storage here in Maine.

[calle]

So I guess its quark for now. Is there a big learning curve for making the switch from Quark to InDesign? I know I'll at least be happy to have everything streamlined in Adobe Software, should make things a little better.
I use InDesign, and never used Quark, but InDesign in itself doesn't have a big learning curve to begin with. I think they mainly made InDesign to push Quark off the market, so I would think that whatever isn't common to other Adobe products is whatever Quark set as their standard. I'm an Adobe guy too, so being able to drag and drop things and using the same file formats without having to do conversions to go from one app to the other saves me a lot of time.

(I work for the marketing dept in a software company, and design everything from website, email invites, product brochures, white papers, letterheads and ads for them, in additions to icons for use in our software. I use Adobe for everything.)

[Sushi]

I use InDesign for page layout stuff and Illustrator for design (which gets imported into InDesign). I have only limited experience with Quark. When I first got InDesign, it seemed like a cross between Pagemaker and Quark. Yes, as I understand it, Adobe developed InDesign to compete head-to-head with Quark, rather than continually retooling Pagemaker and (I guess) losing market share. The interface reminds me a lot of Quark, so it won't look too odd to you. Many of the functions are Pagemaker-like. For multi-page projects (like a book), InDesign is great.

[Groove Holmes]

Well thats exciting to know. I'm excited to add InDesign to my Skill Set, and I really need to sit down and learn as much as I can about Illustrator.

Designing Ads is definitely a fun job, and almost never boring, but my goal is to find my way into a job creating logos and brand identity, really getting to be able to spend time creatively as opposed to cranking out volume.

I also want to get deeper into typography, and design my own fonts & typefaces so that I'm not limited by the list in front of me.

the multiple pages aspect is appealing as well, cause I'd love to work for a magazine too...

[skidminix]

InDesign is totally freakin' awesome! It's basically Illustrator and Quark put together, and it's the only desktop publishing program I know of that lets you do really cool graphic stuff easily, like using a true gradient fill on text without having to convert it to outlines.

Plus, you get... wait for it... multiple undos!!! :D

[Groove Holmes]

InDesign is totally freakin' awesome! It's basically Illustrator and Quark put together, and it's the only desktop publishing program I know of that lets you do really cool graphic stuff easily, like using a true gradient fill on text without having to convert it to outlines.

Plus, you get... wait for it... multiple undos!!! :D


My History Pallette is constantly open in Photoshop...I could never understand why there wasn't something comparable in Quark...

Boy that sounds nice...Gradients...they sure are limited in Quark...for almost all of my backgrounds, I have to create them in Photoshop, and then bring them into quark behind my frame...its so frustrating though, because then you're dropping copy on top of this background of faded photos or whatever that you can't even see. So it's a bit of a guessing game how its going to come out in the end. Talk about handcuffing your designer...

But I'm used to it, and I can basically tell how things are going to come out...but when I think of the minutes lost every hour just jumping back & forth fixing little things that shouldn't take any time at all...

George is getting excited!

Now if they'll just get me that color lazer printer and the G5, not to mention CS2 versions of software & the adapter so I can use my second CRT monitor...

Is that really so much to ask for from a company that depends on these ads as its sole product?!

[skidminix]

And did I mention that InDesign's on-screen display is infinitely better/sharper/cleaner than Quark's notoriously untrustworthy (read: looks like ass) appearance? Trust me, you'll be loving life. And any Illustrator skills can be directly applied. And Quark doc's open up directly and get converted to .indd.

The only thing that Quark has over InDesign is the ability to create/manipulate a text wrap around anchored/inline graphics. But I haven't seen the CS2 version of InDesign, I would imagine that Adobe finally added that capability.

[Groove Holmes]

The only thing that Quark has over InDesign is the ability to create/manipulate a text wrap around anchored/inline graphics. But I haven't seen the CS2 version of InDesign, I would imagine that Adobe finally added that capability.

One thing I do love about Quark is how easily you can manipulate the text. You can skew it any which way, make it as big or small, flat or tall...anything, and it will always be 100% super sharp perfect...

Having had to use Photoshop in the past for similar projects, I know how valuable that is, even though I take it for granted daily.

Is InDesign as user friendly in that aspect?

Oh...and the version of Quark that I use here is 4...uggg...I'm not sure I can wrap text around graphics...if so I don't know how...

The only thing I do is manipulate the text box by hand, or build one with the pen tool...but these yellow page ads don't have to be that sophisticated.

I'm getting ready to head out of here for the day...but tell me if you know a way to create text boxes that fit directly to a graphic...that would be UBER helpful...

It's hard being the lone graphic designer in a company full of sales reps that have no idea how to do this stuff...they promise the client anything they want, and then look at me sideways when I try and explain the limitations.

Generally I believe that I can create anything they want...its the time thing that gets in the way. Its all a function of time, I can't afford two hours to create a logo for some idiot who bought a 2.5"X2.25" ad for $500.

I can't afford to spend twenty minutes on him entirely, let alone create a logo that I would bill him at least $300 for on my own hours...

but I digress

[skidminix]

One thing I do love about Quark is how easily you can manipulate the text. You can skew it any which way, make it as big or small, flat or tall...anything, and it will always be 100% super sharp perfect...

I'm getting ready to head out of here for the day...but tell me if you know a way to create text boxes that fit directly to a graphic...that would be UBER helpful...
InDesign is the same in that regard.

There is an Area Type tool in InDesign (same as Illustrator) - all you have to do is click on your graphic object with it (on the edge of it) and you've created a custom shaped text box. No sweat!

[Angel30]

My boss is scared to try using InDesign. I have played around with it but have yet to submit an ad designed in InDesign. I love how the keyboard shortcuts are the same as Photoshop and Illustrator. I love how the palettes are docked on the side of the screen (has Illustrator CS2 any better docking palettes? The lack of it drives me crazy!).

The only thing I can't figure out is why, when I place an Illustrator eps graphic into InDesign, why does it come in with a white background? In other words, say I have just black text saved as outlines and place that into InDesign, there isn't a "clipping path" around the text. Am I using the wrong method to place graphics? Quark 6.5 has multiple undos and is better than 4 but I still hate it. I am always cursing at it when I use it... my boss thinks I am weird but I think he is for liking Quark as much as he does. Wacko!! ;)

[skidminix]

Have you tried just copying and pasting the graphics from Illustrator instead of placing? Just curious if it behaves the same way...

It should be easy to force the white to go away, but I'm drawing a blank at the moment, and I don't have time right now to look into it... I'll post more later.

[Groove Holmes]

The only thing that Quark has over InDesign is the ability to create/manipulate a text wrap around anchored/inline graphics. But I haven't seen the CS2 version of InDesign, I would imagine that Adobe finally added that capability.

what is this you speak of?

[skidminix]

An anchored or inline graphic is when you have an insertion point in text (the blinking cursor) and then you place or paste a graphic at that point. It then becomes part of the text flow, instead of being positioned in the layout separately. It's useful for small graphics that are a logo or part of a logo, that sort of thing. It stands to reason that you might then want to control how closely the surrounding text would be allowed to come to the graphic, only InDesign (up to the CS1 version) wouldn't let you set that, whereas Quark does.

Sure, you can achieve the same look by just putting the graphic with a normal text wrap where you want it, but if your copy or text formatting isn't finalized, you have to reposition the graphic every time you make a change.

Do you think Sheck's going to scold us for no longer talking about Illustrator? ;)

[Groove Holmes]

Do you think Sheck's going to scold us for no longer talking about Illustrator? ;)

hahahahaha! I didn't wanna retaliate too much...but I mean...come on...


Anyway, thanks for the info...sorry to be such a doofus...

I usually know what things are, but don't always know the terminology...my background is in video graphics (blek!) and I was an editor/shooter for quite a while until I fell in love with print graphics. Hopefully I'll never go back,although I do have a lot of multimedia project goals & desire to do some other video & documentary projects...

Anywho...I'm off to bed...thanks again for the laughs and the info!

Greg

[malheureux]

Have you tried just copying and pasting the graphics from Illustrator instead of placing? Just curious if it behaves the same way...

It should be easy to force the white to go away, but I'm drawing a blank at the moment, and I don't have time right now to look into it... I'll post more later.
as long as the text is on it's own, and not part of a file that needs to be linked, it does indeed behave the same.

i frikkin' love InDesign!! i use it constantly, with Photoshop being my weakest element of the Creative Suite. CS was supposed to make things like Quark extinct, due to the ease of the Adobe family and the ability to transition from one program to the next near seamlessly. eighty and i are always in talks about this shit. she's a photoshop girl who's afraid of InDesign, and i'm an InDesign girl who's terrified of photoshop. funny stuff. i for one, am glad that Adobe bundled these things. it's made the graphic industry sort of come together, i think - there's more of a gelling now. it's nice.

[skidminix]

Have you tried just copying and pasting the graphics from Illustrator instead of placing? Just curious if it behaves the same way...

It should be easy to force the white to go away, but I'm drawing a blank at the moment, and I don't have time right now to look into it... I'll post more later.
D'oh! I just thought of something, and if it turns out to fix it, I'm going to smack myself.

Frames/containers are sometimes created when you place graphics, and they can have their own fill and stroke. Click on the edge of the box and then set your fill to none (the red slash). If I recall correctly InDesign's default is to have white fills in everything, but you can go into preferences and change that, I think...

Let me know if that worked!

Oh, yeah - and what malh said about CS - I love it, wish I didn't have to give it up in my move from my last job to my new one, where I'm on Photoshop 7, Illustrator 10, and no InDesign in sight... :(

[grayedMatter]

I use Photoshop and Illustrator on a daily basis, but I've only used InDesign once...believe it or not.

anyway, I usually just create my designs for print in Photoshop (for raster images and effects, then Illustrator (vector based text, graphics, etc...... (or I just Illustrator)...I was always under the impression that InDesign is more geared towards multi-page documents and layouts as opposed to the single page ad design. That's pretty much why I've never used it, I haven't had a need for it, but from reading this thread, it sounds like it's really picked up its pace since it's birth, so I think I'm going to experiment with it a bit, see what it can really do.

Any thoughts?

[skidminix]

I use Photoshop and Illustrator on a daily basis, but I've only used InDesign once...believe it or not.

anyway, I usually just create my designs for print in Photoshop (for raster images and effects, then Illustrator (vector based text, graphics, etc...... (or I just Illustrator)...I was always under the impression that InDesign is more geared towards multi-page documents and layouts as opposed to the single page ad design. That's pretty much why I've never used it, I haven't had a need for it, but from reading this thread, it sounds like it's really picked up its pace since it's birth, so I think I'm going to experiment with it a bit, see what it can really do.

Any thoughts?
I'd say you probably don't need it if you're only working on single page ads. unless your one-page ads are really heavy on text, then I'd say that InDesign would be better.

For graphic manipulation/creation, Illustrator still has lots of cool bells and whistles that InDesign doesn't. However, now it (finally) has text styles, which I'd been wanting in Illustrator for ages. So it's better for text than ever before, just not *as* good as InDesign.

So, here's the bottom line:
One page, lots of graphics, not a lot of text? Use Illustrator.
More text intensive and/or more than one page (duh)? Try InDesign. :)

[Groove Holmes]

not to repeat myself, but thats what I love about quark.

When you're talking about the ad sizes that I work with...yellow page ads, people are trying (unwisely I might add) to cram as much copy into the smallest space possible, in order to get more bang for their advertising buck.

I just find that Quark, and I'm hoping InDesign, allows you to manipulate the text in such a way that you can fill the empty space up, easily, quickly, and still have it look appealing. It might just be that my comfort level is much greater in quark than illustrator...

the frames are nice too...

It's definitely not fancy, but its a workhorse.

[skidminix]

I just find that Quark, and I'm hoping InDesign, allows you to manipulate the text in such a way that you can fill the empty space up, easily, quickly, and still have it look appealing. It might just be that my comfort level is much greater in quark than illustrator...
Just give it a little practice, you won't regret it. I used to be an instructor - I taught PageMaker, Quark, and InDesign (along with other graphics apps) to companies for years. I don't think I ever talked to anyone who had switched to InDesign from anything else that didn't absolutely love it a million times more than whatever they'd used before. (Geez, I should be getting some kickbacks from Adobe!) :D

Did my "set fill color to none" post fix your white space around graphics problems?

[Groove Holmes]

you shot who in the what now?


ohh..sorry...you were asking angel?

Dragging and Dropping files right into InDesign....wow that must be cool.

Skid, what are you doing now as a designer? Show me some of your work! :)

greg

[skidminix]

Oops, sorry - I remember now that it wasn't you who asked that question. :o I guess I'm too lazy to scroll half a page to see...

I'm actually not a designer at all... I haven't even taken an art class since freshman year in high school. I kind of stumbled into instructing (which I am very good at, if I say so meself) and I always had an interest in graphics apps. I initally played with photoshop and illustrator as an extension of my music - for the packaging and whatnot. I was an Adobe Certified Print Instructor for CS and earlier when I left my last job.

Now I work in a hospital and do some minimal graphics stuff (posters and powerpoint help mostly :eek: ) but mainly I'm like a low-level, front line IS-type. Doesn't sound anywhere near as glamorous as my former job title, but I make way more money than I did instructing. It's kind of a sad joke, actually. :)

[Groove Holmes]

Thats all cool...How did you become Adobe Certified? Take the test?

I was thinking how I'd love to teach an adult ed photoshop class...or maybe even one for high school kids or something during the summer.

I'm a musician too, a pianist, and I don't think it directly led me to design, but it had a hand in it. I remember designing CD labels by hand or whatever cheapy program came with the labels, and thinking, "I wonder if there's a job out there where people get paid to do this?"

I knew nothing of photoshop, illustrator...never heard of indesign, pagemaker or quark...until I had to take a photoshop class for the new media program I was in, thinking I wanted to become a videographer...

that was until I would find myself on assignment in the middle of the maine woods with a bear biologist, in the pouring rain, actually trying to find black bears...which we did.

After that day, and about a hundred more like it, I decided that graphic design sounded pretty good.

I'd still like to see your work, reguardless :D

[skidminix]

Thats all cool...How did you become Adobe Certified? Take the test?
That's pretty much it, yeah. But Adobe exams are notoriously nitpicky and tricky. Like, if they ask you how to do some task, none of the multiple choice answers will be the menu command to do it, it'll always be the super secret Adobe shortcut method (typically involving the alt/option key). I had to pass them for Photoshop, Illustrator, Acrobat, and InDesign. The latter 2 were *much* harder than I expected...

[waifer]

That's pretty much it, yeah. But Adobe exams are notoriously nitpicky and tricky. Like, if they ask you how to do some task, none of the multiple choice answers will be the menu command to do it, it'll always be the super secret Adobe shortcut method (typically involving the alt/option key). I had to pass them for Photoshop, Illustrator, Acrobat, and InDesign. The latter 2 were *much* harder than I expected...

I have to agree they are very nitpicky. The toughest for me was InDesign

[skidminix]

I have to agree they are very nitpicky. The toughest for me was InDesign
No doubt - it got into a level of color management that I've never needed to know. I passed it, but not with flying colors by any stretch of the imagination...