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yoshomon
12 Aug 2005, 11:58 PM
Me Tarzan You Jane

With "Thong Song" on the radio and The Man Show on the tube, pop culture has become a frat house -- and women are joining the party by acting like frat boys. The new Female Chauvinist Pigs are definitely funny. But is the joke on them?

BY ARIEL LEVY

Recently, the organization New York Women in Film & Television threw a breakfast to honor Sheila Nevins, a 22-year veteran of HBO and its executive vice-president of original programming. The vibe was more Lifetime Intimate Portrait than Sex and the City: "I was growing up in a society where women were quiet, so I got to listen," Nevins reflected from the podium. "I like to laugh, I like to cry; the rest is paperwork."

All the women wore glazed, reverential expressions as they picked at their melon wedges and admired Nevins's sharp wit, keen intellect, and zebra-printed slides. "Who opened your career doors for you?" one wanted to know. "Me," Nevins replied. A tweedy fellow with a bow tie started his question with "I'm just the token guy . . ." Nevins gave a little snort and said, "You're all tokens," and the gals had a good laugh.

But then a woman in the back brought up G-String Divas, the late-night docu-soap that Nevins executive-produces, which treats audiences to extended showings of T&A between interviews with strippers about tricks of the trade and their real-life sexual practices. "Why would a woman -- a middle-aged woman with a child -- make a show about strippers?" the woman asked. Everyone was stunned.

Nevins whipped around in her chair.

"You're talking fifties talk! Get with the program!" she barked. "I love the sex stuff. What's the big deal?" In fact, there was something vaguely Betty Friedan- esque about this woman compared with the rest, in their Eileen Fisher knits and lip liner. She adjusted her glasses, visibly shaken, but persisted: "Why is it still the case that if we're going to have a series about women on television, it has to be about their bodies and their sexuality?"

Nevins shook her head furiously. "Why is it that women will still go after women taking off their clothes and not after all the injustices in the workplace? I don't get it! As if women taking off their clothes is disgusting and degrading. Not being able to feed your kids, that's disgusting and degrading!"

"But -- "

"Everyone has to bump and grind for what they want," Nevins interrupted. "Their bodies are their instruments, and if I had that body, I'd play it like a Stradivarius!"

"But -- "

"The women are beautiful, and the men are fools! What's the problem?"

"But you're not really answering my question."

Of course not. Because part of the answer is that nobody wants to be the frump at the back of the room anymore, the ghost of women past -- it's just not cool. What is cool is for women to take a guy's-eye view of pop culture in general and naked ladies in particular. This is an amped-up, horny moment in our culture, and "getting with the program" requires a boys-will-be-boys attitude. Better yet, act like a frat boy in a Wonderbra yourself. Don't worry, everyone's doing it.

read the rest here... http://www.nymag.com/page.cfm?page_id=4297

frizgolf
13 Aug 2005, 07:51 AM
Poison's Cherry Pie complete with video
Warrant's Cherry Pie
Sorry, I'm learning to re-embrace my hair band collection.

Carry on.

rocketman70
13 Aug 2005, 09:37 AM
"Of course not. Because part of the answer is that nobody wants to be the frump at the back of the room anymore, the ghost of women past -- it's just not cool. What is cool is for women to take a guy's-eye view of pop culture in general and naked ladies in particular. This is an amped-up, horny moment in our culture, and "getting with the program" requires a boys-will-be-boys attitude. Better yet, act like a frat boy in a Wonderbra yourself. Don't worry, everyone's doing it."


WHAT?!?

I was just talking about this the other day with someone. It just seems that in the last few years there has been this general shift in attitude taken by young women today. That bold text in the quote above is a perfect example of it. I know that, unfortunately, sexism has always been present in our society. It just seems that, lately, women are more accepting of it and are becoming complacent. They're taking that so called "boys will be boys" attitude and going with it. Most guys may think it's cute, but to me that is one big turn off. I can't understand why a young woman would accept that and let herself be treated in such a fashion. Now I'm not a prude or anything, but it just seems like this "hey it's really cool to be a bimbo" attitude has gotten worse over the last few years and I find it troubling that young girls today accept that. It's probably just me, but is it any coincidence that it seems like this attitude shift really started about four or five years ago? Eh, I probably reading too much into that, but still...

markalot
13 Aug 2005, 09:46 AM
WHAT?!?

I was just talking about this the other day with someone. It just seems that in the last few years there has been this general shift in attitude taken by young women today. That bold text in the quote above is a perfect example of it. I know that, unfortunately, sexism has always been present in our society. It just seems that, lately, women are more accepting of it and are becoming complacent. They're taking that so called "boys will be boys" attitude and going with it. Most guys may think it's cute, but to me that is one big turn off. I can't understand why a young woman would accept that and let herself be treated in such a fashion. Now I'm not a prude or anything, but it just seems like this "hey it's really cool to be a bimbo" attitude has gotten worse over the last few years and I find it troubling that young girls today accept that. It's probably just me, but is it any coincidence that it seems like this attitude shift really started about four or five years ago? Eh, I probably reading too much into that, but still...


I dunno about that. It's perfectly acceptable for guys to pretty much behave however they want, but girls are not suppose to act like bimbos. What is a bimbo anyway? Who defines bimbo? Is that society, is that men? If a guy is horsing around and having fun is he a bimbo?

People whould be able to behave exactly the way they want to without being called sexist names.

rocketman70
13 Aug 2005, 10:08 AM
I dunno about that. It's perfectly acceptable for guys to pretty much behave however they want, but girls are not suppose to act like bimbos. What is a bimbo anyway? Who defines bimbo? Is that society, is that men? If a guy is horsing around and having fun is he a bimbo?

People whould be able to behave exactly the way they want to without being called sexist names.

According to the dictionary:
bim·bo
1. Slang. A woman regarded as vacuous or as having an exaggerated interest in her sexual appeal.
2. Slang. A vacuous person

Well, I guess I am a grupmy old prude after all. When I see a woman act like that or even a guy for that matter, I just cringe. I guess I'm just disgusted with the 'dumbing down' of the country. At this point, there just doesn't seem to be anything one can do about it.

markalot
13 Aug 2005, 10:12 AM
According to the dictionary:
bim·bo
1. Slang. A woman regarded as vacuous or as having an exaggerated interest in her sexual appeal.
2. Slang. A vacuous person

Well, I guess I am a grupmy old prude after all. When I see a woman act like that or even a guy for that matter, I just cringe. I guess I'm just disgusted with the 'dumbing down' of the country. At this point, there just doesn't seem to be anything one can do about it.


haha,

well I'm a grumpy old prude too. If you apply it equally then it's not sexist.

I was walking down the hallway at work the other day and some bi ... woman was wearing an outfit that exaggerated her already ample breasts. She was showing too much skin for a professional environment, but then I'm an old prude. Anyway I caught myself looking too low before I lifted up to make eye contact. She rolled her eyes at me.

My fault, fucking bimbo.

ms. chevious
13 Aug 2005, 11:19 AM
there's a difference between (1) being open about your embodiment and sexuality and (2) "taking a guy's-eye view of pop culture". notice how "guy" is implicitly heterosexual (to be a "guy" is to like seeing naked chicks)?

bell hooks has a great article on this: "power to the pussy: we don't want to be dicks in drag" - it talks about the problem of feminisms that strive to make women like men (equality = sameness, "dicks in drag").

i have serious problems with prudish feminisms that think women must reject their bodies/sexuality in order to be "liberated". this is just taking the same metaphysical anti-body value structures which justify their marginalization and exclusion of women from power with the argument that women are more subject to their bodies and their sexuality, and thus can't be intelligent or mature. these anti-body feminisms assume that women can't be "serious" or "smart" if they are concerned with their bodies or expressive of their sexuality. same bullsh*t, different name.

loveydovey
15 Aug 2005, 12:42 PM
bell hooks has a great article on this: "power to the pussy: we don't want to be dicks in drag"

If I was still in college, I would put that phrase on a banner and hang it in front of each and every sorority house.

Sorry dude, but I'm still not OK with Maxim. I don't secrelty wish I was in it. And it doesn't make me feel better to see men objectified, either. I'd rather be called a prude or a militant feminist than a pushover any day.

yoshomon
15 Aug 2005, 08:33 PM
i have serious problems with prudish feminisms that think women must reject their bodies/sexuality in order to be "liberated".

I think there's a big difference between rejecting the objectification/commodification of women's bodies and sexuality and rejecting sexuality completely.

dragonflier
16 Aug 2005, 12:19 AM
Where'd you dig up this article? The Man Show isn't on any more and G-String Divas was on HBO something like three years ago.

If you want to make points about objectifying women, how about some current examples?

I watched most of G-String Divas--there wasn't much to watch that was a turn-on. And the producer was right--the men on the show were fools...being parted from their money.