Atlanta Braves : Best MLB franchise by far

[The Ugly Thief]

I live in Atlanta. So, yha, I'm bias - but every single player in the Braves starting lineup tonight was a product of the Braves' farm system. How many other MLB teams can say that ? Better yet, how many other MLB teams who are in FIRST PLACE can say that ?

If more MLB teams followed the Braves' model for building a great franchise then so many other problems threatening MLB these days would not be as severe, and people wouldn't be so desperate for the implementation of a much needed salary cap.

v

[dry-gulcher]

Expand the question a little ,how many teams can say: "WE DON'T SUCK" certainly not the Reds or any team in the NL West .

[Jonathan]

how many teams can say: "WE DON'T SUCK" certainly not the Reds or any team in the NL West .
What are you talking about? The Padres are in first place!!! :p

[Artpunchehorse]

I live in Atlanta. So, yha, I'm bias - but every single player in the Braves starting lineup tonight was a product of the Braves' farm system. How many other MLB teams can say that ? Better yet, how many other MLB teams who are in FIRST PLACE can say that ?

If more MLB teams followed the Braves' model for building a great franchise then so many other problems threatening MLB these days would not be as severe, and people wouldn't be so desperate for the implementation of a much needed salary cap.

v

Since 1990

Reds - 1 WS championship

ATL - 1 WS championship

[The Ugly Thief]

Since 1990

Reds - 1 WS championship

ATL - 1 WS championship

Since 1991

Reds - 10 losing seasons
ATL - 0 losing seasons

...and the Reds are working on #11 this year

oh, and how many people came to the Great American Ball Park in Cincinnati to watch the Reds lose to the Braves tonight ? 23,285 - only 55.4% of potential capacity.

Yha, it's a lot of fun being a Reds fan these days isn't it ?

v

[The_Deacon]

Since 1991

Reds - 10 losing seasons
ATL - 0 losing seasons

oh, and how many people came to the Great American Ball Park in Cincinnati to watch the Reds lose to the Braves tonight ? 23,285 - only 55.4% of potential capacity.

Yha, it's a lot of fun being a Reds fan these days isn't it ?

v
Reds suck! Baseball sucks! See you all on Who Dey thread. Good night.

[Homsar]

What the Braves have done is amazing.
The Reds can only DREAM of doing something like that.
And the pitching?
Jeebus.

[sabos_glasses]

Reds suck! Baseball sucks! See you all on Who Dey thread. Good night.

Dude, stop doing that. If you don't like baseball, just stay out of the thread.

[Artpunchehorse]

Since 1991

Reds - 10 losing seasons
ATL - 0 losing seasons

...and the Reds are working on #11 this year

oh, and how many people came to the Great American Ball Park in Cincinnati to watch the Reds lose to the Braves tonight ? 23,285 - only 55.4% of potential capacity.

Yha, it's a lot of fun being a Reds fan these days isn't it ?

v

No, it sucks. It is amazing that all of those guys were from the ATL system. Meanwhile last night we had 2 guys from our system starting (Dunn and Kearns)

Did you go to the game last night? I think Andruw's ball is still in orbit

[Handy Smurf]

I wouldve never guessed who started this thread
:confused:

:D

[Orville Wrong]

This is a preposterous contention. Do you know anything about baseball?

[jcarwash31]

I live in Atlanta. So, yha, I'm bias - but every single player in the Braves starting lineup tonight was a product of the Braves' farm system. How many other MLB teams can say that ? Better yet, how many other MLB teams who are in FIRST PLACE can say that ?

If more MLB teams followed the Braves' model for building a great franchise then so many other problems threatening MLB these days would not be as severe, and people wouldn't be so desperate for the implementation of a much needed salary cap.

v
The Twins and Athletics have a very similar system as the Braves. Except for a few guys (Nathan, Silva, Punto, Castro, Stewart, Mulholland) the Twins are pretty much all home grown. The BIG difference between teams like the Twins and A's vs the Braves is that the Braves have a big payroll. They can afford to keep the stars that come up through the system. The Twins lose nearly half of the team each year.

Payrolls (http://www.onestopbaseball.com/TeamPayroll.asp) as of April 7th 2005

Braves $86,457,302 (10th in the Majors)
Twins $56,186,000 (20th in the Majors)
Athletics $55,425,762 (22nd in the Majors)

The Twins and A's could do a lot for another $30 million.

Who is the hottest team in baseball? The Athletics.

[The Ugly Thief]

Payrolls (http://www.onestopbaseball.com/TeamPayroll.asp) as of April 7th 2005

Braves $86,457,302 (10th in the Majors)
Twins $56,186,000 (20th in the Majors)
Athletics $55,425,762 (22nd in the Majors)The Braves' payroll might as well be down in the $60s because some of their highest paid players haven't even played this season. Two that come to mind are Brian Jordan & Mike Hampton.

The oldest player in their lineup last night was Andruw Jones - 28. The average age of the starting 9 was 25.

v

[the happy prole]

oh, and how many people came to the Great American Ball Park in Cincinnati to watch the Reds lose to the Braves tonight ? 23,285 - only 55.4% of potential capacity.

v

How many people come to watch the Braves lose in the playoffs each year?
If the Reds made the playoffs, they'd sell out. If the Braves had the Reds record, the stadium would be empty.

ugly thief, I'm sure you really do like the Braves. And here in Richmond there are tons of Braves fans and they are loyal. But as a whole, Atlanta fans seem like they kinda suck. When the team is good, they don't show up. When the team is bad--- well, you get the Hawks.

I do have to hand it to the Braves. Every year people think they didn't do enough in the offseason and this is the year they fall off. And every year they exceed expectations and manage to make the playoffs. The last few years they've had to shave the payroll, and the Phillies and Mets have been spending like crazy mofos. Great organization.

[Handy Smurf]

The Twins and Athletics have a very similar system as the Braves. Except for a few guys (Nathan, Silva, Punto, Castro, Stewart, Mulholland) the Twins are pretty much all home grown. The BIG difference between teams like the Twins and A's vs the Braves is that the Braves have a big payroll. They can afford to keep the stars that come up through the system. The Twins lose nearly half of the team each year.

Payrolls (http://www.onestopbaseball.com/TeamPayroll.asp) as of April 7th 2005

Braves $86,457,302 (10th in the Majors)
Twins $56,186,000 (20th in the Majors)
Athletics $55,425,762 (22nd in the Majors)

The Twins and A's could do a lot for another $30 million.

Who is the hottest team in baseball? The Athletics.

Well the A's did go out and trade for 3/5 of their startign staff this offseason...and I do believe I was about the only person on the boards saying Beane made good moves getting rid of Mulder and hudsoon. Hmmmm...now who was it that I was arguign about that with? :confused:
:D

[Handy Smurf]

The Braves' payroll might as well be down in the $60s because some of their highest paid players haven't even played this season. Two that come to mind are Brian Jordan & Mike Hampton.

The oldest player in their lineup last night was Andruw Jones - 28. The average age of the starting 9 was 25.

v
Keep in mind, Happy Prole did just hit the nail on the head with his previous post...I completely agree...and I cant knock the organization.

But, teams deal with injuries every fucking year. For the past 3 years, Griffey Jr. alone represented about 1/4 of the Reds payroll and he had a horrible string of injuries. Not to mention all the other injuries the team dealt with during that time.

[Phil]

How many people come to watch the Braves lose in the playoffs each year?
If the Reds made the playoffs, they'd sell out. If the Braves had the Reds record, the stadium would be empty.

ugly thief, I'm sure you really do like the Braves. And here in Richmond there are tons of Braves fans and they are loyal. But as a whole, Atlanta fans seem like they kinda suck. When the team is good, they don't show up. When the team is bad--- well, you get the Hawks.

I do have to hand it to the Braves. Every year people think they didn't do enough in the offseason and this is the year they fall off. And every year they exceed expectations and manage to make the playoffs. The last few years they've had to shave the payroll, and the Phillies and Mets have been spending like crazy mofos. Great organization.


Upfront, I'm a huge Braves fan. I think that their accomplishments have been incredibly underated by the general public. Its a hell of a lot tougher to win 14 straight division championships than 2 world series (there is a lot of luck in two world series.) I honestly believe my Bravos are one of the greatest sports franchises ever.

Farm System is what its all about. Incredibe. And from what I understand, minor leaguers are dying to get into their system. When I was 19, Andruw Jones was 19 and hitting home runs in the world series. Unreal.

Anyway, it seems most pepole are on the same page with this, but Happy P Atlanta fans don't blow. Often Turner Field gets flack for not looking full with a winning team. People, that stadium holds 50,000 people. Its huge. And they draw great. And if, and when, the Braves Don't have a winning season that takes them to the playoffs, I think the crowd will still be there. Sure, there will be drop off, but the loyalty to Atlanta is kinda crazy cool - not like Yankees or Cubs - more laid back and comfortable. Just like at how many braves fans come to Reds games.

Go braves.

The End.

[jcarwash31]

The Braves' payroll might as well be down in the $60s because some of their highest paid players haven't even played this season. Two that come to mind are Brian Jordan & Mike Hampton.

Hampton is getting paid $ 15,125,000 this year, but Brian Jordan is not being paid much at all, $600,000. That brings it down to $70,732,302.

Also, this is the Braves' lowest payroll since 2000. In 2003, the Braves' payroll was $106 million. The Twins' payroll of $56 million is their highest ever and the A's payroll topped out last year at $59 million.

The Braves have a good minor league system, which I am sure comes from great scouts and minor league coaches, but if the system goes dry the Braves have the resources to buy players.

The oldest player in their lineup last night was Andruw Jones - 28. The average age of the starting 9 was 25.

v
They didn't have grampa Chipper playing last night. The average age of the Twins current regular lineup with Santana (the teams best pitcher) and not knowing who the fuck the regualr DH is (might be LeCroy) is 26.4. If you put Torii Hunter in there instead of Ford it is 26.6, but Hunter is lost for the season. The oldest player is Stewart at 31 and the youngest is Joe Mauer at 22.


USAToday baseball payroll database (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/default.aspx)

[the happy prole]

Julio Franco would bring the average team age up by 2 years all by himself!

I used to hate the Braves but now I like them. When they aren't playing the Cubs or in the race for a wildcard I generally root for them. Living in Richmond, it's kinda cool that you get to see all those great prospects up close for $5.

I was looking forward to seeing Francoeur, but they jumped him from AA and it doesn't look like he'll be back down any time soon.

[The Ugly Thief]

Its a hell of a lot tougher to win 14 straight division championships than 2 world series (there is a lot of luck in two world series.)
EXACTLY !!!

If I was just interested in a quick world series championship then I would be a Flordia Marlins or Arizona Diamondbacks fan !

When it comes to baseball, consistancy is the REAL difficult thing to pull off ! The Braves could have gone out & bought a bunch of big names & gotten a quick world championship, but who wants that ? Who wants to watch a baseball team full of guys w/ $50million contracts who are all going to be gone next season ? Fans who want that don't truly love baseball. They just love the idea of being able to say that "their team" won the World Series. They couldn't care less about who is going to be there next year or the year after - or if the team is even going to be able to compete in 5 years.

The Braves have had large payrolls in the past, but that was mostly because they had to pay mucho $ to maintain that HOF pitching staff. But even during those years, they still maintained their "home-grown" philosophy - and because of that the two veteran "leaders" of the team right now are Andruw Jones & Chipper Jones.

Frankly, I will not be heartbroken at all if the Braves even were to get eliminated in the first round of the playoffs this year. Watching this young team mature & continue to win over the next 5 years is going to be great !

v

[jcarwash31]

The Braves could have gone out & bought a bunch of big names & gotten a quick world championship, but who wants that ? Who wants to watch a baseball team full of guys w/ $50million contracts who are all going to be gone next season ? Fans who want that don't truly love baseball. They just love the idea of being able to say that "their team" won the World Series. They couldn't care less about who is going to be there next year or the year after - or if the team is even going to be able to compete in 5 years.

*coughs* Yankees *coughs*

[Handy Smurf]

Upfront, I'm a huge Braves fan. I think that their accomplishments have been incredibly underated by the general public. Its a hell of a lot tougher to win 14 straight division championships than 2 world series (there is a lot of luck in two world series.) I honestly believe my Bravos are one of the greatest sports franchises ever.

Farm System is what its all about. Incredibe. And from what I understand, minor leaguers are dying to get into their system. When I was 19, Andruw Jones was 19 and hitting home runs in the world series. Unreal.

Anyway, it seems most pepole are on the same page with this, but Happy P Atlanta fans don't blow. Often Turner Field gets flack for not looking full with a winning team. People, that stadium holds 50,000 people. Its huge. And they draw great. And if, and when, the Braves Don't have a winning season that takes them to the playoffs, I think the crowd will still be there. Sure, there will be drop off, but the loyalty to Atlanta is kinda crazy cool - not like Yankees or Cubs - more laid back and comfortable. Just like at how many braves fans come to Reds games.

Go braves.

The End.
I really cant let the defense of the Atlanta fans go unopposed. :p

Riverfront held 56,000. It was constantly sold out in the Reds heyday. If your team has won 14 division championships in a row and youre in a city as big as Atlanta, you should be getting better attendance and at the very least, selling out all your playoff games.
The Hawks have made it to the playoffs multiple times since the last time the Bengals did. Even in the Bengals worst years, they would still sell out a couple games and average between 45-50,000 fans/game. I remember reading in SLAM magazine years ago, "The Hawks could have Rolls Royce giveaway night and they still wouldnt sell out "
Cincinnati has loyal and passionate sports fans, from what I know about Atlanta, they just arent as good. Not a knock on you Ugly Thief

[Phil]

I really cant let the defense of the Atlanta fans go unopposed. :p

Riverfront held 56,000. It was constantly sold out in the Reds heyday. If your team has won 14 division championships in a row and youre in a city as big as Atlanta, you should be getting better attendance and at the very least, selling out all your playoff games.
The Hawks have made it to the playoffs multiple times since the last time the Bengals did. Even in the Bengals worst years, they would still sell out a couple games and average between 45-50,000 fans/game. I remember reading in SLAM magazine years ago, "The Hawks could have Rolls Royce giveaway night and they still wouldnt sell out "
Cincinnati has loyal and passionate sports fans, from what I know about Atlanta, they just arent as good. Not a knock on you Ugly Thief


Okay, I mostly agree with you on your basic argument. But two points so we can be realistic about this:

1) Cincinnati is a Baseball town - and has been since before 1890! Historically, before 1980 or so, (even though the team has been there since 1966) - Atlanta is not. Most other ball parks were NOT doing what Cincinnati did in the long gone "Hey Day." Atlanta does quite well.

2) You're comparings Apples to Watermelons with Football to Basketball. Last season, 90% of all football games were sold out on a given weekend. Basketball just doesn't have the draw; never did. I'm not saying Atlanta is at all die hard Hawks, but context people!

Edited to add: I friggin love having the odd Friday off so I can argue this stuff all the live long day...

[the happy prole]

Here's the attendance figures. (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/charts/attendance-nl/attendance-nl2004.shtml)

The Braves outdrew the Reds, but not by much. You'd expect a bigger difference given their seating capacity and the fact they were a good team. Then again, they ran away with it so easily last year that that may actually have hurt them.

Not sure you can tell much from that chart. The West Coast teams drew well, but hey-- the weather's great, why not catch a game? We'll all leave in the sixth inning and we don't care who wins but why not? Phillies fans look like they're the most hardcore for showing up to games when their team stunk. Of course they were all there to boo the team, but at least they were hardcore about it. :p

It seems like good fans are good fans everywhere, so we probably shouldn't draw too much from individual experiences. You can look at the parallel on the Cubs threads. Cubs fans are being blasted simultaneously for showing up to games and not caring and caring too much. I haven't been to a Cubs game in years, but the Bleacher Bums were brutal and could be very ugly. The rest of the stadium was mostly mellow. It's hard to get mad at a team when you know already they stink and you could (should) be at work instead.

[Orville Wrong]

I live in Atlanta. So, yha, I'm bias - but every single player in the Braves starting lineup tonight was a product of the Braves' farm system. How many other MLB teams can say that ? Better yet, how many other MLB teams who are in FIRST PLACE can say that ?

If more MLB teams followed the Braves' model for building a great franchise then so many other problems threatening MLB these days would not be as severe, and people wouldn't be so desperate for the implementation of a much needed salary cap.

v
The Yankees are a superior organization to the Braves, and this is indisputable on any level. You can't strip money out of the equation, for the simple reason that a ball club is a commercial enterprise. The Yankees being richer means that in one respect they are vastly superior. The Yankees farm system doesn't fill their roster, sure, but it sure as fuck is filling a lot of others, and not with Adam frigging LaRoche or such stiffs. All these much vaunted pitchers that the Braves have dealt in the past few years are stiffs: Belisle, Bong, Bell, Marquis (kind of), etc. Betemit doesn't look like much to me, and quite frankly neither does Furcal.

I hate the fucking Yankees, so I consider myself impartial. You're on crack.

[Handy Smurf]

Phil, I only saw the Bengals-Hawks comparison as valid because they have both at times since 1991 been absolutely horrible.
Even when the Bengals were the worst franchise in all of sports for 12 straight years, they were still at times outdrawing teams like Jacksonville, Indianapolis, Oakland/LA or Arizona (to name a few) when they were having down years.
--Note--to all you "diehard" Colts fans out there, where were you during the pre-Peyton era? Yeah, I know where you were. You were on the toilet with your pants around your ankles masturbating to Reggie Miller trading cards, pretending you didnt know what a colt was.
I think its quite remarkable the numbers the Bengals would put up after 7,8,9,10 or more years in a row of total incompetence. I think its a tribute to the loyalty, passion, pigheadedness, and foolish optimism of Cincinnati sports fans.
The Hawks suck for a few years in a row and they draw 600 people to a game to watch them play.

[jcarwash31]

--Note--to all you "diehard" Colts fans out there, where were you during the pre-Peyton era? Yeah, I know where you were. You were on the toilet with your pants around your ankles masturbating to Reggie Miller trading cards, pretending you didnt know what a colt was.
He he he he he......Reggie.
I think its quite remarkable the numbers the Bengals would put up after 7,8,9,10 or more years in a row of total incompetence. I think its a tribute to the loyalty, passion, pigheadedness, and foolish optimism of Cincinnati sports fans.

The Vikings have a following like this. Although they haven't been as terrible as the Bengals, but if the Vikes had 12 years of that I still would watch every game just like every Vikings fan.

[The Ugly Thief]

Atlanta, you should be getting better attendance and at the very least, selling out all your playoff games...Cincinnati has loyal and passionate sports fans, from what I know about Atlanta, they just arent as good. Not a knock on you Ugly Thief
I don't take that as a knock at all. I agree with you. Let me give you the reason that Atlanta doesn't have "passionate" fans.

Like Phil already mentioned, the Atlanta Braves are a relatively young franchise (only been around since '66). That's one of the reasons. But living in Atlanta, I can say that there is an even deeper reason as to why Atlanta fans are not "passionate". The real reason has to do with the very makeup of Atlanta as a city. Atlanta is a city which is growing very fast. It's been one of the fastest growing cities in the country for the past 20 years. Where do you think the majority of the new Atlanta residents are coming from ? Georgia ? Of course not. They're all coming from the north (just like myself). Those people who have caused the big boom in population in Atlanta over the past 20 years aren't going to necessarily be "passionate" fans of a baseball team for a city they just moved to in the past 10 years or so.

That's how I have witnessed it first hand. I see a lot of people going to Turner Field just as a "thing to do". Hell, I've gone to Turner Field with a bunch of friends from work just because we all had "755 Club" passes & there was an open bar there. I don't think we watched a single pitch of the game the whole time we were there that night.

v

[Handy Smurf]

I don't take that as a knock at all. I agree with you. Let me give you the reason that Atlanta doesn't have "passionate" fans.

Like Phil already mentioned, the Atlanta Braves are a relatively young franchise (only been around since '66). That's one of the reasons. But living in Atlanta, I can say that there is an even deeper reason as to why Atlanta fans are not "passionate". The real reason has to do with the very makeup of Atlanta as a city. Atlanta is a city which is growing very fast. It's been one of the fastest growing cities in the country for the past 20 years. Where do you think the majority of the new Atlanta residents are coming from ? Georgia ? Of course not. They're all coming from the north (just like myself). Those people who have caused the big boom in population in Atlanta over the past 20 years aren't going to necessarily be "passionate" fans of a baseball team for a city they just moved to in the past 10 years or so.

That's how I have witnessed it first hand. I see a lot of people going to Turner Field just as a "thing to do". Hell, I've gone to Turner Field with a bunch of friends from work just because we all had "755 Club" passes & there was an open bar there. I don't think we watched a single pitch of the game the whole time we were there that night.

v
Hmm, interesting. I didnt know that about the ATL

[Homsar]

USAToday baseball payroll database (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/default.aspx)

Holy area rug, Batman! The Yankees are spending over $200 million!

And they're still 4.5 games behind the Red Sox.

:)

[The Ugly Thief]

Hmm, interesting. I didnt know that about the ATLDon't get me wrong. That's not the ONLY reason, but it's definitely one of the main reasons. After moving to Atlanta more than 10 years ago, one of the first things I noticed was that practically EVERYONE I would meet was not from Atlanta or even Georgia. I expected that because of what I already knew about the population growth and what not, but it's really surprising how many people I know basically grew up in the north (NY or OH or PA etc etc) & then for one reason or another moved to Atlanta. So, a lot of them are basically just adopting the Braves as "their" team. It's not like they grew up watching them all their life and what not. Personally, I grew up watching the Yankees as a kid in the 70s & 80s (on WPIX ; I can still remember running home from school in order to catch the 1978 one game Yankee/Red Sox playoff game with Bucky Dent's HR), but I'm definitely a 100% Braves fan now - not just because I live in Atlanta, but also because it's an awesome franchise which is run the way franchises should be run.

maybe in about 10-15 years they'll have a whole generation of "passionate" fans who actually grew up watching them as little kids.

As far as filling up Turner Field during playoff games, I highly doubt that will ever happen as long as they are making the playoffs each year. These days people in Atlanta don't start to get excited about the playoffs until it's about the 5th or 6th game of the NLCS. I've been to a bunch of playoff games in Turner Field. Tickets were really easy to get. It was more difficult to get tickets to the All Star Game when they played it here in 2000.

v

[The_Deacon]

Dude, stop doing that. If you don't like baseball, just stay out of the thread.

I so agree Sabos. I was all tore up when I posted that shit. :o If somebody ripped the hell out of football on the Who Dey thread, I would probably react the same. I am sorry all! :o carry on friends :D

[Orville Wrong]

I so agree Sabos. I was all tore up when I posted that shit. :o If somebody ripped the hell out of football on the Who Dey thread, I would probably react the same. I am sorry all! :o carry on friends :D
Wow. An apology on the Internet. Now I have seen it all.

[The Ugly Thief]

I think it's gotten to the point where Bobby Cox should start considering moving Chipper Jones back out to Left Field.

Plain & simple, Wilson Betemit is a better defensive 3rd basemen than Chipper Jones. Seriously, I think Betemit is a potential Gold Glove 3rd basemen. Chipper will never be a Gold Glove 3rd basemen. Chipper is a good 3rd baseman. He's not a great 3rd baseman. Betemit has more range & a better arm & he's been making plays that would make Brooks Robinson proud.

If you move Chipper out to LF, then you are effectively replacing Kelly Johnson in the lineup w/ Betemit. Johnson's avg is .235. Betemit is .296. So, you not only gain defensively but offensively. Plus, Betemit is a switch hitter. Also, Chipper can't throw w/ his rotator cuff injury. Supposedly, he's fine swinging the bat.

v

[bjk15]

Well the A's did go out and trade for 3/5 of their startign staff this offseason...and I do believe I was about the only person on the boards saying Beane made good moves getting rid of Mulder and hudsoon. Hmmmm...now who was it that I was arguign about that with? :confused:
:D
i don't know who, but i remember somebody saying that chris carpenter was a journeyman at best... now who was that? and i said getting rid of mulder was a great move, but the hudson thing i did not agree with (and i am a bonafide a's fan) (and largely b/c he has a great makeup... hence the reason the braves wanted him).

now, back to the subject at hand. the braves have what may be the best coaching tandem of all time as far as i am concerned. leo mazzone is golden when it comes to pitching. i've said for like 5 years that if the yankees really were smart with their money that they would've thrown like $10 mil a yr. at him to get him, but between he and cox they are so good its a joy to witness their abilities. the best thing about the braves is that they are all on the same page from top - down. and yeah, the gm schuerholz is pretty good too. very impressive indeed and i would be hard pressed to say that any other organization is better (and yes i do love the a's, but they don't have the same mgrs, etc., so nope, not better).

[Handy Smurf]

i don't know who, but i remember somebody saying that chris carpenter was a journeyman at best... now who was that? and i said getting rid of mulder was a great move, but the hudson thing i did not agree with (and i am a bonafide a's fan) (and largely b/c he has a great makeup... hence the reason the braves wanted him).

now, back to the subject at hand. the braves have what may be the best coaching tandem of all time as far as i am concerned. leo mazzone is golden when it comes to pitching. i've said for like 5 years that if the yankees really were smart with their money that they would've thrown like $10 mil a yr. at him to get him, but between he and cox they are so good its a joy to witness their abilities. the best thing about the braves is that they are all on the same page from top - down. and yeah, the gm schuerholz is pretty good too. very impressive indeed and i would be hard pressed to say that any other organization is better (and yes i do love the a's, but they don't have the same mgrs, etc., so nope, not better).
chris carpenter sucks

[The Ugly Thief]

I just love beating the 'Nats & watching Frank Robinson sit in the dugout & get more and more and MORE pissed off as the game goes on.

damn, I thought he was going to punch someone in that dugout when Franceour hit that HR

IN YOUR FACE FRANK !!!

v

[FOBAgain]

That Robinson staring contest with the ump the other day was hilarious! Friggin' psycho...


Cris Carpenter sucked... (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=carpecr01)

Chris Carpenter has turned into a good pitcher... (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=carpech01)

Of course, I still hate St. Louis and think the Rocket deserves the Cy Young in spite of Houston's insistence on not scoring runs for him.