Poker a sport?

[Harlequin011]

Defined by webster

Main Entry: sport
Function: noun
1 a : a source of diversion : RECREATION b : sexual play c (1) : physical activity engaged in for pleasure (2) : a particular activity (as an athletic game) so engaged in
2 a : PLEASANTRY, JEST b : often mean-spirited jesting : MOCKERY, DERISION
3 a : something tossed or driven about in or as if in play b : LAUGHINGSTOCK
4 a : SPORTSMAN b : a person considered with respect to living up to the ideals of sportsmanship <a good sport> <a poor sport> c : a companionable person
5 : an individual exhibiting a sudden deviation from type beyond the normal limits of individual variation usually as a result of mutation especially of somatic tissue


So, Is poker a sport? :confused:

[daemon]

well, they had a whole article on some poker player in the latest sporting news, if that means anything.

[Handy Smurf]

a source of diversion : RECREATION b : sexual play


so sex and knitting are now sports?
C'mon, I could agree with sex while knitting--thats challenging...but that definition is way too broad. Filling out crossword puzzles is a sport as far as that definition is concerned

[Spoon4613]

Also, according to the AICE (thats the Association of Independent Competitive Eaters) competitive eating is also a sport. So YAY America. If you're overweight you can now officially say that you're in training.

My how the mighty have fallen.

[crazybob60]

who cares got my vote!

[The_Deacon]

who cares got my vote!
It's cards, and that in it. End of story.

[jcarwash31]

From dictionary.com

sport
n.

1. a.Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often
engaged in competitively.
b.A particular form of this activity.
2. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set
of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
3. An active pastime; recreation.

I think definitions 1 and 2 are the definitions we associate with sports and I think the key word in definition 3 is active.

Thus, poker is not a sport since it is not a physical activity.

And I think it would still be entertaining to watch on TV if it weren't all over the fucking place.

[mike]

Can I vote both NO & Get That Off My TV?

That's my vote in any event. I can't stand that crap.

MST

[Patas]

It definitely isn't a sport, but I love watching it and think it provides great drama and entertainment. The last three weeks of WSOP have been awesome.

[Homsar]

I think poker is just like watching someone play those scratch-off lottery tickets, but with bluffing.

[the-dude]

this is hilarious, i was going to start this thread over the weekend and decided against it! I am the non-athletic sporting man. Bowling, frisbee golf, and poker. All can include drinking and smoking.

[Handy Smurf]

Can I vote both NO & Get That Off My TV?

That's my vote in any event. I can't stand that crap.

MST
This coming from the biggest racing fan on the boards
:p

[thelunarbee]

I had to go with WHO CARES! I loves me some poker, but not THAT much. I mean playing it is fun, but I'm sick to death of hearing about it.

And also, playing poker with me might be considered a sport since you have to wear a cup lest ye get kicked square in the junk.

[wileE]

who cares got my vote!
Same here, bro. It is definitely not a sport, either.

[mike]

This coming from the biggest racing fan on the boards
:p

Name me a fat racer. Preferably non-NASCAR, if you can.

[Homsar]

Lance Armstrong.



Kidding. They have to fit their vehicles, don't they?

[The_Deacon]

this is hilarious, i was going to start this thread over the weekend and decided against it! I am the non-athletic sporting man. Bowling, frisbee golf, and poker. All can include drinking and smoking.
Im with dude on this one!

[Patas]

Last nite was sweet. Jesus catching the quad As and that poor shmo running into it with a monster of his own. Yowch. That's entertainment.
Yeah that was amazing. I really couldn't believe it.

[DoRabbitsWonder]

I think poker should be considered a sport because, even though it is luck there is still strategy to the game. You compete against other players, even though it is not a physical game you still have to be somewhat intelligent to get very far in a game. Your odds against other players, how the other player plays, theres many things to take in account. But I also think if you can smoke and drink in it, it should probably not be considered a sport. So i dont know.

It's almost like considering cheerleading is a sport, but thats a whole different thread.(though i do believe cheerleading is a sport).

[hopeyopi]

poker is not a sport. it is too expensive for that.

bridge is a sport. darts is a sport (hopefully our choice for the host's game in 2012 london olympics). that's if we haven't all been blown up by then.

going to the darts is a good day out.

[Marlowe]

if bridge is a sport, than poker certainly is. but, as it happens, neither poker nor bridge are sports.

there are any number of fun and socially worthy competitive activities out there, but not all of them are sports. darts doesn't qualify as a sport, either.

[Jonathan]

I must say, anything that I can play online at 5:00 in the morning because I can't sleep isn't a sport.

[FOBAgain]

Not a sport... but fun as hell, nonetheless.

[Handy Smurf]

Name me a fat racer. Preferably non-NASCAR, if you can.

Since when did "not being fat" = athlete


and a better question might be, Name me a fat Brazilian. Theres no chance to name a fat non-Nascar racer, thats where all the 'Mericans are, and we know we're infinitely fatter than Brazilians, Germans, Italians, etc. I probably could find you one fat European for every 15 fat good old boys I could find sittin round watchin the Dale Jr. race.

;)

[Handy Smurf]

I think poker should be considered a sport because, even though it is luck there is still strategy to the game. You compete against other players, even though it is not a physical game you still have to be somewhat intelligent to get very far in a game. Your odds against other players, how the other player plays, theres many things to take in account. But I also think if you can smoke and drink in it, it should probably not be considered a sport. So i dont know.

It's almost like considering cheerleading is a sport, but thats a whole different thread.(though i do believe cheerleading is a sport).

so then, Parcheesi is a sport?

:p

[Handy Smurf]

I must say, anything that I can play online at 5:00 in the morning because I can't sleep isn't a sport.
Checking out porn online at 5 in the morning can often lead to very valuable cardiovascular excercise

[mike]

Since when did "not being fat" = athlete

It doesn't, but to say that auto racing isn't an athletic endeavor...well, I just beg to differ.

and a better question might be, Name me a fat Brazilian. Theres no chance to name a fat non-Nascar racer, thats where all the 'Mericans are, and we know we're infinitely fatter than Brazilians, Germans, Italians, etc. I probably could find you one fat European for every 15 fat good old boys I could find sittin round watchin the Dale Jr. race. ;)

There's no a chance to name a fat non-NASCAR racer?

Juan Manuel Fangio (Argentinian) was definitely a bit on the portly side & is considered one of the greatest drivers ever. Keke Rosberg (Finland) & Alan Jones (Australia) are past World Champions and definitely could have lost a few lbs. Much was made of Nigel Mansell's (UK) inability to easily get in & out of the cockpit upon returning to F1 after his stint in the States, and the only time AJ Foyt (USA! USA!) could been considered anything other than fat was in his earliest racing days.

It's no big deal Smurf....I simply fail to see a shred of interest in poker personally (kudos to those who do) and will loudly HARUMPH (cue Mel Brooks) any assertion that it's an actual sport. :) Thank goodness we're all different!

If you'd care to make a case against racing, make it against drag racing & smash-up derby, both infinitely less athletic than (in particular) road racing.

I'm certain that one of our Brazilian boarders could come along & vouch for the fact that, yes Virginia, fat Bazilians exist.

Cheers -

[Jonathan]

Indeed. AJ pretty much had to retire because he couldn't fit in the car anymore.

It wasn't because he wasn't competitive. He stopped being competitive long before he retired.

[Handy Smurf]

It doesn't, but to say that auto racing isn't an athletic endeavor...well, I just beg to differ.



There's no a chance to name a fat non-NASCAR racer?

Juan Manuel Fangio (Argentinian) was definitely a bit on the portly side & is considered one of the greatest drivers ever. Keke Rosberg (Finland) & Alan Jones (Australia) are past World Champions and definitely could have lost a few lbs. Much was made of Nigel Mansell's (UK) inability to easily get in & out of the cockpit upon returning to F1 after his stint in the States, and the only time AJ Foyt (USA! USA!) could been considered anything other than fat was in his earliest racing days.

It's no big deal Smurf....I simply fail to see a shred of interest in poker personally (kudos to those who do) and will loudly HARUMPH (cue Mel Brooks) any assertion that it's an actual sport. :) Thank goodness we're all different!

If you'd care to make a case against racing, make it against drag racing & smash-up derby, both infinitely less athletic than (in particular) road racing.

I'm certain that one of our Brazilian boarders could come along & vouch for the fact that, yes Virginia, fat Bazilians exist.
Cheers -
I think I'm enjoying that quote a little too much.

Just to clarify:
I absolutely do not think poker is a sport, nor is it athletic in any way shape or form. The most athletic accomplishment I've ever had whilst playing cards would probably be lurching slightly forward so I could reach my beer.

I'm not sure where I stand on the racers as athletes thing, but I am of the opinion that there is far too much racing in existence. Once you get down to drag racing, funny car, baja, motorcycle, truck racing, etc., I'm not even sure where the revenue comes in to award these people prize money...or for that matter, how anyone who isn't one of the absolute best at that particular type of racing can make a living.
BUT, I do have a lot of respect for road racing, and if theres one type of racing I can watch, its going to be on a road course...preferably in Monaco. I have NO interest in watching, Dale and Jimmy Bob and Earl and Billy Joe chase each other in circles. And people who enjoy the crashes, I mean really enjoy them, are morbid, disturbed individuals.

For the record, I was just joking with the fat Brazilian comment and the fat non Nascar remark. I dont know racing well enough to gauge how many fat drivers there may be. But Americans are much fatter than...well, pretty much anyone else, and that was really my only point.

Cheers to you too, sir
-and play my goddamn Elliot Smith request! (joke, its a joke)
:p

P.S. I didnt get a Harumph outta that guy!

[Homsar]

darts doesn't qualify as a sport, either.

You sure? That takes physical training and accuracy.

[Marlowe]

You sure? That takes physical training and accuracy.
so do pinball and nintendo. are those sports?

ballroom dancing is closer to a sport than darts. and that's not a sport, either.

[Homsar]

Pinball and Nintendo? I'd say yes, because of the physical skills and coordination.
Poker? All in the head.

[Jonathan]

Pinball and Nintendo? I'd say yes, because of the physical skills and coordination.
Poker? All in the head.
No, no and no.

And no to ballroom dancing. And no to darts. Anything where you get better at it the more you drink...not a sport.

[rocketman70]

And no to darts. Anything where you get better at it the more you drink...not a sport.


Truer words were never spoken.

Edited to add: Damn you Jonathan, you got me to post in the sports forum. :p

[The_Deacon]

oh shit....I find myself watching the 2005 WSOP. :(

I am hooked. :o I need to stop drinking :p

[Jonathan]

It's addictive as all get out. I find that I can't go to bed anymore without first firing up Party Poker to play a sit-and-go or two. Which reminds me, it's getting late...

*logs on to Party Poker*


But it's still not a sport.

[mitchvan]

Is discussing whether a sport is a sport a sport? And if poker is a sport can masturbation be a sport?

[Miracle Max]

And if poker is a sport can masturbation be a sport?
Can you smoke while masterbating?

[joebob]

10 things I rank below poker in the "why is it on sports channels?" category:

1. spelling bees
2. cheerleading
3. fishing
4. "outdoor" games
5. talking heads
6. dramatic series
7. men's beach volleyball
8. anything featuring the Red Wings
9. racing in circles
10. anything about the Yankees where they're not getting their asses whipped.

So can poker be a "sport"? Who gives a shit, it's more engaging than all of the above, and at times, more than a lot of other tripe. I'll take it over "reality television," all 45 channels or however many it's on now. And I'll take it any day of the week and twice on Sundays with bad V-hold instead of FoxNews.

[The Sheck]

If the predominant physical activity is sitting, i.e. in a chair, it is not a sport. Games that are mentally challenging are not sports. Is Chess a sport? Backgammon? Chinese Checkers?

Of course, I consider Hungry Hungry Hippos to be full-contact, so...

[The_Deacon]

10 things I rank below poker in the "why is it on sports channels?" category:

1. spelling bees
2. cheerleading
3. fishing
4. "outdoor" games
5. talking heads
6. dramatic series
7. men's beach volleyball
8. anything featuring the Red Wings
9. racing in circles
10. anything about the Yankees where they're not getting their asses whipped.

So can poker be a "sport"? Who gives a shit, it's more engaging than all of the above, and at times, more than a lot of other tripe. I'll take it over "reality television," all 45 channels or however many it's on now. And I'll take it any day of the week and twice on Sundays with bad V-hold instead of FoxNews.

I agree with every word of this post. Except for 2. Cheerleading. That is just because I am a perv. ;)

[Jonathan]

Point No. 8 is a very important point indeed.

[hopeyopi]

seriously , if you get the chance in the uk to go to a major darts tournament you'll really enjoy it and you'll know it's a sport. it's a massive great piss up too.

[chuxxter]

Poker is a wonderful GAME that combines concentration, skill, and luck to be successful at it. I love to watch it, but you will never convince me that Doyle Brunson is an athlete.

[joebob]

ESPN2 columnist takes on the subject.

Does Poker Qualify As A Sport?
By Jay Lovinger
ESPN Page 2

Is poker a sport?


Before I attempt to answer that question, here's another one: What difference does it make?

A couple of times in the past few weeks, Tony Kornheiser of "Pardon The Interruption" has questioned whether the current poker boom will have legs. Kornheiser obviously believes it will not, based on the notion that people who watch poker on TV cannot expect to see any spectacular physical feats and so will necessarily become bored and stop watching.

In other words, in Kornheiser's opinion, poker is not a sport.

(In the interests of full disclosure, I should mention that Kornheiser knows absolutely nothing about poker, doesn't have the slightest interest in whether or not the poker boom will continue, and is "concerned" about the future of poker only to the extent that it provides a chance to tweak Norman Chad, ESPN's poker color man and a former colleague of Kornheiser at the Washington Post.)

(In the interests of full full disclosure, I should also mention that Kornheiser and I not only worked together at the Washington Post but went to the same school -- Harpur College in bucolic Binghamton, N.Y. -- and that Kornheiser is largely responsible for my journalistic career, such as it is, because he introduced me to the man who gave me my first real editing job. Therefore, under the Fairness In Commentary Act of '99, I am obligated to publicly insult and demean Kornheiser whenever I have the opportunity.)

OK, let's see if, just this once, Kornheiser might be right about something.

When it comes to proving a dubious point, dictionary definitions are often the last refuge of a scoundrel. So, according to "The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language," here are the first two definitions for "sport":

1.) An active pastime; diversion; recreation.

2.) A specific diversion, usually involving physical exercise and having a set form and body of rules; a game.

So far, so good ... except for a teensy bit of a problem with the phrase "physical exercise." Now, if one defines "physical exercise" as something involving:

1.) Strength; or

2.) Speed; or

3.) Coordination; or

4.) Reflexes; or

5.) Physical endurance; or

6.) Ability to play through pain; or ...

Okay, poker doesn't require any of those, unless you consider the strength needed to push large piles of chips into the middle of a pot, or maybe the manual dexterity necessary to see your hole cards without letting anybody else at the table get a clean look.

However, we have a major out -- the adverb "usually," which, if taken literally, means "sometimes not."

Plus, let's be fair: How much more "physical exercise" is required to play, say, bowling or golf or pool than poker? And nobody would question whether bowling or golf or pool are sports.

Another thing poker has going for it, sports-wise, is that ESPN and the Fox Sports Network both cover it regularly, and magazines like ESPN The Magazine and Sports Illustrated both write about it. (Of course, SI once regularly covered bridge and yachting, too, but it seems unkind to make too much of that.)

In any case, is it really true, as Kornheiser contends, that most people watch sports on TV to see incredible physical feats?

While incredible physical feats are a regular feature of some popular sports -- notably basketball -- there are many popular sports in which incredible physical feats are quite rare, and even those seldom determine the outcome of an event. Just two of many in this category would be baseball and auto racing.

While it is true that baseball has its share of web gems, for example, most of the key moments in a game are noticeable only because of the results. The difference between a swing by Barry Bonds and a swing by, say, Rey Ordonez is perceivable primarily because of the results of those swings -- in Bonds' case, often a home run; in Ordonez's case, almost always, at best, a weak ground ball.

Similarly, what's the difference between a slow curve from Mets' lefty Tom Glavine and a similar pitch from the Yankees' Gabe White? One winds up in the catcher's glove, and the other in outer space; but until those fateful moments, to the naked eye, they look pretty much the same.

In auto racing, everybody goes round and round and round and round, and the only thing that differentiates one guy who goes round and round from another who goes round and round is which one arrives at the finish line first. True, an occasional driver will show an occasional flash of other-worldly reflexes in avoiding a multi-car pileup, but I doubt whether that's why people tune in to watch. In fact, you can make a better case that they tune in to watch, hoping to see multi-car wrecks. In other words, if the vast majority of race-watchers appreciate anything that has to do with incredible physical feats, it is most likely the absence of them.

No, people watch sports for one reason: to see who won, to see who can exhibit the most grace under the most intense pressure, and then to celebrate the winners, often by cashing a bet. (Yes, football fans, I'm talking 'bout you. Be honest now -- would you rather see a week's worth of incredible physical feats, or collect on one meaningful wager from your local bookie?) And the reality is that big-time poker provides just about the most intense pressure the fertile mind of man can create -- not to mention an endless stream of meaningful wagers.

First of all, the money is huge. Greg Raymer, the winner of this year's World Series of Poker, took home $5 million; and to do so, he had to play thousands of hands that took 60-plus hours over six days -- without making a single major mistake.

(In that sense, I suppose, great poker players resemble great coaches more than great athletes -- they have to make constant choices, any one of which could cause the entire enterprise to collapse. Consider, for example, Larry Brown's options at the end of the second game of the NBA Finals: Guard the inbounds pass? Foul Shaq? Foul Looooo-ke Walton? Foul Kobe? Double-team Kobe? Play Kobe straight up? Poker players have to make decisions like that hundreds of times in a tournament -- and there's no third and fourth and fifth and sixth and seventh game if they are wrong.)

Second of all, in poker, if you don't win, not only do you not get paid -- unlike baseball and football and basketball players -- but they take money out of your pocket. (The entry fee for playing in the WSOP, for example, was $10,000, so you can sit there for four or five days and go home with only a huge hole in your bank account to show for it.)

Third of all, in major tournaments, there can be 2,500-plus players trying to be the last man standing -- or sitting -- and they all will do almost anything, including lie viciously and repeatedly (in poker, we call it "bluffing"), to send you home a broken husk of a man (or woman).

In other words, win and be a champion toting a life-changing roll of bills big enough to choke Shrek, or lose and go home a chump with a giant hole blown through your life savings. As the Clint Eastwood character -- a lone gunfighter, the ur-American sports figure -- tells the Scofield Kid in "Unforgiven": "It's a helluva thing, killing a man. You take away everything he's got in life, and everything he'll ever have."

Now what can be more pressure-filled, more sporting than all that? And does anybody believe the American public will ever tire of watching?

I say, "No way." What do you think?


Jay Lovinger, a former managing editor of Life and a founding editor of Page 2, is writing on his poker adventures for ESPN.com and also writing a book for HarperCollins. You can watch the 2004 World Series of Poker starting July 6 at 9 p.m. ET on ESPN.

[The_Deacon]

I am hooked. I have now caught all of the WSOP 2005!! Damn I am hooked!! This is great!!! :rolleyes: How did this happen?? :confused:

[spinx]

there is no way in hell that poker is a sport....if poker qualifies as a sport then so does cross-word puzzles, sudoko, darts, marbles....ect ect where would you draw the line??
what about Roulette, black jack....hey or what about just betting on horses??

[Handy Smurf]

Plus, let's be fair: How much more "physical exercise" is required to play, say, bowling or golf or pool than poker? And nobody would question whether bowling or golf or pool are sports.

I stopped reading Lovinger's column after this idiotic line. Who the hell says pool is a sport?

I think the key is, and he quoted the definition for sport in his article, that it "usually involves physical excercise."
This should be changed to "must involve physical excercise." Can anyone think of something widely considered a sport that doesnt?
Golf - heck no, walking 36 holes requires more stamina than you'd think. Not on par with other athletes, but the physical excercise is certainly there. Plus the act of swinging a golf club(well, at least) requires quite a bit of strength and agility
Bowling - hmmm...even bowling requires some amount of strength and athletic skill. Ever bowl 3 straight games when you havent rolled in a while, you're back, wrist, fingers -and your entire arm, really- will be sore afterward. Bowling is one I am not quite sold on, though
Billiards are a skill and a leisure time activity. You can play competitively...but you can play beer pong and flip cup competitively, too, and I dont see anyone trying to make those Olympic events

[joebob]

So now the problem is the definition.

You all must really hate your jobs to be this fucking bored. I know I do.

[Handy Smurf]

So now the problem is the definition.

You all must really hate your jobs to be this fucking bored. I know I do.
???
why do you hate my job?


BTW, have you ever read the boards here, or did you just randomly appear as a 3 year old member with a couple hundred posts? Its not like this is some joint effort to cure cancer here...someone brought back a year old thread about a theoretical Transformer royal rumble earlier

[sabos_glasses]

BTW, have you ever read the boards here, or did you just randomly appear as a 3 year old member

He sure types well for a three-year-old.

[The_Deacon]

He sure types well for a three-year-old.
Can we all just get along :D :confused:

[sabos_glasses]

Can we all just get along

Yes, we can, and we do.

[Jonathan]

Can we all just get along :D :confused:
The sports forum has actually been called the most civil forum on the WOXY boards.


Clearly, we're all doing something wrong.
:D

[Handy Smurf]

Take your civility and shove it up your ass, Jonathan, you wanker wannabe












;)

[Jonathan]

Take your civility and shove it up your ass, Jonathan, you wanker wannabe

HEY!!! I resent that!

I'm no wannabe.

[The_Deacon]

The sports forum has actually been called the most civil forum on the WOXY boards.


Clearly, we're all doing something wrong.
:D
So I suppose that if I am not feeling like being civil one day, that I should post in a forum other than Sports??!!

I am still kinda new at this, and I don't think I have posted anywhere else here besides the Sports forum. Any suggestions???? :confused:

Wow this thread has gone way off topic........soooooooo........

.....I am still watching the 2005 WSOP every Tue. and I am not sure if I should be proud of that or not, but I am surely finding it very entertaining!!

[emalojo]

I said no. I think if you can't break some kind of a sweat I don't consider it a sport.

[The_Deacon]

I said no. I think if you can't break some kind of a sweat I don't consider it a sport.
I think I have caught a couple of beads of sweat on the foreheads of some of those poker player when they go all in!!!! :p

[Jonathan]

So I suppose that if I am not feeling like being civil one day, that I should post in a forum other than Sports??!!

I am still kinda new at this, and I don't think I have posted anywhere else here besides the Sports forum. Any suggestions???? :confused:

Yeah. If you're feeling like being a bastard, post in Current Events/Politics. ;)

And to get this thread back on track, POKER IS NOT A SPORT!!! :p