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despondent
15 May 2005, 02:54 PM
'Wars' Raises Questions on U.S. Policy (http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/news/ap/20050515/111618582000.html)
Sunday May 15 12:37 PM ET

Without Michael Moore and "Fahrenheit 9/11" at the Cannes Film Festival this time, it was left to George Lucas and "Star Wars" to pique European ire over the state of world relations and the United States' role in it.

Lucas' themes of democracy on the skids and a ruler preaching war to preserve the peace predate "Star Wars: Episode III Revenge of the Sith" by almost 30 years. Yet viewers Sunday and Lucas himself noted similarities between the final chapter of his sci-fi saga and our own troubled times.

Cannes audiences made blunt comparisons between "Revenge of the Sith" the story of Anakin Skywalker's fall to the dark side and the rise of an emperor through warmongering to President Bush's war on terrorism and the invasion of Iraq.

Two lines from the movie especially resonated:

"This is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause," bemoans Padme Amidala (Natalie Portman) as the galactic Senate cheers dictator-in-waiting Palpatine (Ian McDiarmid) while he announces a crusade against the Jedi.

"If you're not with me, then you're my enemy," Hayden Christensen's Anakin soon to become villain Darth Vader tells former mentor Obi-Wan Kenobi (Ewan McGregor). The line echoes Bush's international ultimatum after the Sept. 11 attacks, "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."

"That quote is almost a perfect citation of Bush," said Liam Engle, a 23-year-old French-American aspiring filmmaker. "Plus, you've got a politician trying to increase his power to wage a phony war."

Though the plot was written years ago, "the anti-Bush diatribe is clearly there," Engle said.

The film opens Wednesday in parts of Europe and Thursday in the United States and many other countries. At the Cannes premiere Sunday night, actors in white stormtrooper costumes paraded up and down the red carpet as guests strolled in, while an orchestra played the "Star Wars" theme.

Lucas said he patterned his story after historical transformations from freedom to fascism, never figuring when he started his prequel trilogy in the late 1990s that current events might parallel his space fantasy.

"As you go through history, I didn't think it was going to get quite this close. So it's just one of those recurring things," Lucas said at a Cannes news conference. "I hope this doesn't come true in our country.

"Maybe the film will waken people to the situation," Lucas joked.

That comment echoes Moore's rhetoric at Cannes last year, when his anti-Bush documentary "Fahrenheit 9/11" won the festival's top honor.

Unlike Moore, whose Cannes visit came off like an anybody-but-Bush campaign stop, Lucas never mentioned the president by name but was eager to speak his mind on U.S. policy in Iraq, careful again to note that he created the story long before the Bush-led occupation there.

"When I wrote it, Iraq didn't exist," Lucas said, laughing.

"We were just funding Saddam Hussein and giving him weapons of mass destruction. We didn't think of him as an enemy at that time. We were going after Iran and using him as our surrogate, just as we were doing in Vietnam. ... The parallels between what we did in Vietnam and what we're doing in Iraq now are unbelievable."

The prequel trilogy is based on a back-story outline Lucas created in the mid-1970s for the original three "Star Wars" movies, so the themes percolated out of the Vietnam War and the Nixon-Watergate era, he said.

Lucas began researching how democracies can turn into dictatorships with full consent of the electorate.

In ancient Rome, "why did the senate after killing Caesar turn around and give the government to his nephew?" Lucas said. "Why did France after they got rid of the king and that whole system turn around and give it to Napoleon? It's the same thing with Germany and Hitler.

"You sort of see these recurring themes where a democracy turns itself into a dictatorship, and it always seems to happen kind of in the same way, with the same kinds of issues, and threats from the outside, needing more control. A democratic body, a senate, not being able to function properly because everybody's squabbling, there's corruption."

dragonflier
15 May 2005, 03:10 PM
I was just about to start this thread and you beat me to it.

As if I needed more reasons to see Episode III--it also includes Bush-bashing.

Leach
15 May 2005, 03:59 PM
never thought about it in that fashion... but yeah... thats pretty much going to sum everything up... I need the bad accent and jarbling of words coming out of bush's mouth were from the voice box implanted in his darth suit.

Duemellon
15 May 2005, 04:42 PM
Sorry, u didnt' kno about Lucas' political jabs?

The Niemodians... the weird "asian" ones that started the war in EpI? Were Nute Gunray (Newt Gingrich & Raygun... ahem... Reagan) & the other was Lott Dod? (Trent Lott).

Yah, even though his original premise was basd on stuff he thought of decades ago he definitely filled in the cracks with political snipes. No, I didn't read this article b/c I'm trying to pretend to be the most niave person when I go to the theater this Thursday.

Orville Wrong
15 May 2005, 09:57 PM
Sorry, u didnt' kno about Lucas' political jabs?

The Niemodians... the weird "asian" ones that started the war in EpI? Were Nute Gunray (Newt Gingrich & Raygun... ahem... Reagan) & the other was Lott Dod? (Trent Lott).

Yah, even though his original premise was basd on stuff he thought of decades ago he definitely filled in the cracks with political snipes. No, I didn't read this article b/c I'm trying to pretend to be the most niave person when I go to the theater this Thursday.
More of that trademark Lucas subtlety. I particularly liked Tar Baby Binks and the Hebrew Trade Federation introduced in Ep1.

I'm beginning to think the current distaste in Hollywood for all things preemptive might have something to do with the infamous Greedo revision as well.

Homsar
15 May 2005, 10:01 PM
Episode 1 was just on a few hours ago.
I realized as I was watching it (well, watching is kinda wrong because there were seriously 5 minutes of commercials after every 10 minutes of movie), that I really don't like that movie at all.
Not at all.
In fact, now that I think about it, they could have vastly improved it if they eliminated the Gungans entirely.

And are you sure about "Tar Baby Binks?"

Orville Wrong
15 May 2005, 10:07 PM
Episode 1 was just on a few hours ago.
I realized as I was watching it (well, watching is kinda wrong because there were seriously 5 minutes of commercials after every 10 minutes of movie), that I really don't like that movie at all.
Not at all.
In fact, now that I think about it, they could have vastly improved it if they eliminated the Gungans entirely.

And are you sure about "Tar Baby Binks?"
Fuck yeah, I am. He doesn't sound like Steppin' Fetchit to you? I was disgusted.

Homsar
15 May 2005, 10:16 PM
I was disgusted in every lame aspect of the movie, intended or not.

Orville Wrong
15 May 2005, 10:21 PM
I was disgusted in every lame aspect of the movie, intended or not.
Well, that too.

Duemellon
15 May 2005, 11:17 PM
Tar Tar Binks is a bit extreme. It's as innocent as making Yoda Chinese, the Neimodians Japanese, the clones as latinos, & the Empire as Nazi/English/Roman/Rich/White folks (find me a black guy in the Empire who's genuinely in the Empire & I'll give you a dollar).

No really, sometimes I think Lucas' mind just operates under the same assumptions of behavior & associations of behaviors to classifications that the bulk of society has. It's like why there aren't any white Klingons, or why Elves are always from the UK or at least pasty-faced white.

I mean, I was watching Xiaolin Showdown & they can't escape it. It's easier to use a given stereotype that drags along with it all the implied motivations & capabilities than it is to sculpt one through scripts & character development.


Really, how many Black cartoon characters on Sat morning require a rap-esque them song? or talk like their from NY? Good lord. I didn't know that Blackism came from Harlem. ;rolleyes;

That's what I mean about the code of conduct. Ppl don't even see the lil' bits of things they let slide into their minds or come drifting back out because they know it's a standard form of communication in society.

Orville Wrong
15 May 2005, 11:59 PM
Tar Tar Binks is a bit extreme.
I'm sure Lucas meant no harm, but didn't the "Meesa hungry" patter make you wince? I just think he's hermetically sealed in his geeky little universe, and has absolutely no ear for this kind of stuff (insert "You're not like sand" pickup line here).

He's invested his entire life in telling this story, and it's kind of sad that it's not that great. He captured something with the first two films, but it's become apparent over the last four that it was entirely by accident.

Lucas is a weird guy. I hesitate to even characterize him as a geek, because he's so tone-deaf to the geeky potential for his films. There are bizarre oversights that he just won't acknowledge, or that any script advisor with a science or military background would have pointed out: Like why does everybody and everything shoot laser beams, did you ever notice that? No bombs, no grenades, no artillery. Nothing that has shrapnel or area effect of any kind or that can deliver fire in anything but a straight line. How would anyone develop high-tech weaponry and not bother to make anything that could blow shit up by the boatload, or behind a wall? How did they master the technology necessary to make a laser cannon without ever considering elementary physics of a battlefield? Answer: Lasers look cool.

That's actually not a bad metaphor for Lucas himself -- a laser beam. Looks cool, but accomplishes next to nothing.

Is there any humor or irony anywhere in the six films? I can't think of any.
That's why it's impossible to take his political allegories seriously. He's simply not a thinker.

Duemellon
16 May 2005, 06:35 AM
...it's kind of sad that it's not that great. He captured something with the first two films, but it's become apparent over the last four that it was entirely by accident.

... Answer: Lasers look cool.

That's actually not a bad metaphor for Lucas himself -- a laser beam. Looks cool, but accomplishes next to nothing.

Is there any humor or irony anywhere in the six films? I can't think of any.
That's why it's impossible to take his political allegories seriously. He's simply not a thinker.Wow. The movies suck if compared to other movies when checking plot, acting, twists, script, premise, etc. They're all horrible works of unArt.

However, that was never their intent. They weren't meant to take you to a realistic "Galaxy exactly 135,532,031 light years away bearing 6 degrees", it was meant as a big bunch of easily digestible fluff. Like cotton candy or papas fritas. Perhaps you got your fill & you're sick of the kiddy candy?

Seriously, I don't mind the latest movies except for the lil' stupid things in EpI. He got rid of those urges for the most part but it was what I expected after the SE of RoTJ. Egads, that made me cringe.

You put too much stock in Buck Rodgers, Episode ]I[: Revenge of the Cornball Movies from the 60's.

Leach
16 May 2005, 06:47 AM
Lucas is a weird guy. I hesitate to even characterize him as a geek, because he's so tone-deaf to the geeky potential for his films. There are bizarre oversights that he just won't acknowledge, or that any script advisor with a science or military background would have pointed out: Like why does everybody and everything shoot laser beams, did you ever notice that? No bombs, no grenades, no artillery. Nothing that has shrapnel or area effect of any kind or that can deliver fire in anything but a straight line. How would anyone develop high-tech weaponry and not bother to make anything that could blow shit up by the boatload, or behind a wall? How did they master the technology necessary to make a laser cannon without ever considering elementary physics of a battlefield? Answer: Lasers look cool.

They had AOE weapons... ION grenades, Flash Grenades, and some other stuff... think back to RoTJ when they were fighting the empire on the ewok planet... they were tossing grenades then. As far as actually knowing these weapons exist in the star wars world, is because i play knights of the old republic :p

Slar
16 May 2005, 06:50 AM
I think that the idea of the rebels symbolizes the religious extremest underdogs. They are trying by despirate measures to destroy the mechanized secular "evil" world. Then the empire symbolizes all the infedels and athiests in the world.
I have no idea what you are trying to communicate here, but as an atheist I'm thinking I should be offended. Seriously, how does the Empire symbolize atheism? I completely don't see that at all. Read the article again to see what it is supposed to represent.

Also, the rebels in Star Wars were not trying to destroy anything by any measures. Their purpose was to defend the Republic against complete tyranny. Equating them with religious extremeists is just way out there in left field.

Jim Schue
17 May 2005, 03:35 AM
Lucas is a weird guy. I hesitate to even characterize him as a geek, because he's so tone-deaf to the geeky potential for his films. There are bizarre oversights that he just won't acknowledge, or that any script advisor with a science or military background would have pointed out: Like why does everybody and everything shoot laser beams, did you ever notice that? No bombs, no grenades, no artillery. Nothing that has shrapnel or area effect of any kind or that can deliver fire in anything but a straight line. How would anyone develop high-tech weaponry and not bother to make anything that could blow shit up by the boatload, or behind a wall? How did they master the technology necessary to make a laser cannon without ever considering elementary physics of a battlefield? Answer: Lasers look cool.

Those blue things the Gungans used in Ep1 seemed to have the same effect as artillery.

monkey neck
18 May 2005, 09:46 AM
Or, it could be a story that takes place in outer space.

chuxxter
18 May 2005, 10:44 AM
Really, how many Black cartoon characters on Sat morning require a rap-esque them song? or talk like their from NY? Good lord. I didn't know that Blackism came from Harlem. ;rolleyes;


Didn't you know that we invented it? How incredibly uninformed you are! :p :D

Handy Smurf
18 May 2005, 10:57 AM
I was just about to start this thread and you beat me to it.

As if I needed more reasons to see Episode III--it also includes Bush-bashing.
yeah, but JarJar Binks is a subtle jab at black people by George Lucas
huh, shouldve read through the thread first