PDA

View Full Version : Chain gang begins work


markalot
10 May 2005, 08:30 AM
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050510/NEWS01/505100361

Butler County Sheriff Rick Jones launches a new program, saying jails are too "cushy"

By Janice Morse
Enquirer staff writer

Inmates from the Butler County Jail chained together in groups of five pick up litter along Ohio 129 near Bypass 4 in Fairfield Township. Monday was their first day of work in a chain gang launched by Sheriff Rick Jones.
Photos by Glenn Hartong/The Enquirer
Zoom

A shackle around an inmate's ankle is seen Monday as inmates from the Butler County Jail worked in Fairfield Township. Those who volunteer for the chain gang get some fresh air and a sack lunch, Sheriff Rick Jones said.
Zoom

Caution: Chain Gang Ahead

Neon-orange signs broadcast that message to motorists along Ohio 129 Monday, as Butler County Sheriff Rick Jones launched a "chain-gang" inmate labor program - Ohio's first modern version and one of only a handful in the nation, experts said.

Two groups of five men, wearing black-and-white horizontal stripes, fanned out picking up litter in the highway median - an experimental start to a program that Jones hopes will make the county cleaner and inmates more productive, even if it causes a stir.

"It is going to be controversial, and I'm OK with that," Jones said. "In my chain gangs, nobody is going to be mistreated, but they are going to have to work."

The inmates were working in view of the Bridgewater Falls shopping center in Fairfield Township, where township resident Regina Leist, a 33-year-old mother of three, said, "I say, 'Put 'em to use.' It is a little scary, having them out in the community. But as long as they're being watched, I think it's all right. Maybe it'll help reform them, too."

Joe Weedon, spokesman for the American Correctional Association, said there has been a national trend toward using inmates for work that benefits communities, and escapes are rare.

Chris Link, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Ohio, said she sees no problem with the program itself. "Even the ACLU does not oppose hard work," she said.

But she takes issue with the label, "chain gang."

"It sounds - honestly - a little headline-grabbing," Link said. "There are plenty of prison programs that involve hard work, but the language certainly conjures up very negative pictures."

Jones said lower-level offenders already work in programs that don't require chains. But this program involves "medium-security" offenders, a level above that. "These are not murderers and killers and rapists," Jones said. But he is linking one ankle on each inmate to the four other inmates' ankles to prevent them from running away and to teach them teamwork: "You're going to have to learn to work with the other people that you're on the gang with. When the chain moves, you have to move."

Because chain gangs became notorious for prisoner abuse and were dramatized in movies dating to the 1930s, they were disbanded across the United States by the 1950s. But 10 years ago, Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, Ariz., resurrected an updated version of chain gangs.

In an interview Monday, Arpaio said he has never been sued for any of his chain-gang programs.

Arpaio, who also established no-frills tent jails and makes male inmates wear pink boxer shorts to humble them, has been running what he calls "the world's only all-female chain gang" for nine years. A year ago, he started a chain gang of juveniles charged as adults.

Arpaio was re-elected last November to his fourth four-year term.

Only one or two other U.S. sheriffs have started chain gangs in recent years, Arpaio said, adding, "I have to commend him for at least taking the initiative and trying to do something."

Butler County Commissioner Mike Fox supports the program and wants to see it expand from volunteer-only to mandatory for all able-bodied inmates. He envisions using inmates to sort litter into piles of recyclables that then could be sold to generate revenue for the program.

"When you come to jail, it's not a place to kick back and relax," Fox said. "You'll be expected to work, you'll be expected to contribute, and we're going to get some value out of your time - and the money that the taxpayers spend."

The county spends about $25,000 to $35,000 a year to house, feed and care for each inmate, and Fox said taxpayers should get something in exchange.

Jones said he will do a cost-benefit analysis in a few weeks and decide whether to seek to expand the program. Figures were unavailable Monday. The inmates get no pay and nothing off their sentences for volunteering for the chain gang. They get some fresh air and a sack lunch, Jones said.

Jones said he started the program because thinks jails are too "cushy," with inmates dining on meals assembled by dieticians, watching color TV and being provided free health care that is better than many law-abiding Americans can afford.

"I don't want them to come here like it's Disney World, and think, 'Wow, what a great trip. I came here and gained five pounds and didn't do a lick of work.' We're going to change that," Jones said.

Now in his fifth month as sheriff, Jones points out that he formerly worked for the Ohio prison system so he is knowledgeable about corrections. He said the inmates will work hard but they will be treated humanely.

"I'm going to give them plenty of water, sunscreen so they don't get sunburned, and a little portable toilet - and they're going to work," he said. "There are so many things that need to be done, painting the city buildings, cleaning parks and highways - and we have inmates who can do it, so why not?"

E-mail jmorse@enquirer.com

miami2112
10 May 2005, 08:36 AM
chryssie hyde is prophetic!!

i went back to ohio.... and went back on the chain gang!!


who wants pie??

chicodaman
10 May 2005, 08:56 AM
okay, somebody explain the pie joke

ditto

43210

aqualou
10 May 2005, 08:56 AM
okay, somebody explain the pie joke
http://www.cs.act.gov.au/prison/images/sub_pages/sub_statistics.gif

i'm all for this . . . expand it into graffiti and getting the staples out of telephone polls

miami2112
10 May 2005, 08:58 AM
MaL, is that anywhere near your abode?

i grew up in the area and thats about 20min or so from the house.

as for the issue at hand...

is there any problem with using inmates for this type of work? assuming their rights arent violated.

Homsar
10 May 2005, 09:15 AM
They actually wear the black and white stripes?
How sweet is that?

miami2112
10 May 2005, 09:16 AM
They actually wear the black and white stripes?
How sweet is that?

we'll catch you, blue, dark blue.!!! muahuahuauahauaha

Homsar
10 May 2005, 09:17 AM
Oh my god, someone picked up on that!

I may have to change my name...

markalot
10 May 2005, 09:27 AM
MaL, is that anywhere near your abode?

i grew up in the area and thats about 20min or so from the house.

as for the issue at hand...

is there any problem with using inmates for this type of work? assuming their rights arent violated.

There is no conclusive evidence that shows that this kind of treatment works. Worse, there is compelling evidence that hard labor actually increases the number of repeat offenders.

It's in my county, but not close. I'm in fairfield, just north of forest-fair-mills-whatever mall. They got that big ole fish shop thar.

Handy Smurf
10 May 2005, 10:11 AM
There is no conclusive evidence that shows that this kind of treatment works. Worse, there is compelling evidence that hard labor actually increases the number of repeat offenders.

It's in my county, but not close. I'm in fairfield, just north of forest-fair-mills-whatever mall. They got that big ole fish shop thar.

I dont agree with the concept of the chain gang necessarily, but

Is this really "hard" labor? I don't know all the details, I've picked up trash before, it aint that hard.
And if this is the compelling evidence you speak of, I wouldnt exactly say it has increased or decreased anything, more like stayed the same:
Morley Safer (on-camera): Ms. Hamm points to an Arizona State University study commissioned by the sheriff which shows that his methods have had virtually no effect on repeat crimes in Maricopa County.
No improvement doesn't equal getting worse.

Before I get flamed(what the hell am I talking about, I'm sure I will anyway)
I dont believe prisoners should be subject to "truly" hard labor(I'm not certain how the whole chain gang aspect fits in to that, I've seen plenty of prisoners cleaning trash on the highway who weren't in chain gangs) doing laundry and making license plates are not hard jobs
I believe they should be paid some type of wage for their work
I believe prisoners should have very few priviledges in general

And yes, there is extremely conclusive evidence suggesting this "works" to get the highway clean.

wileE
10 May 2005, 10:29 AM
I believe they should be paid some type of wage for their work.

I definitely agree with this. It would certainly help when they got out of prison (don't give them the money until they are released).

miami2112
10 May 2005, 10:36 AM
what, treated fairly and given min. wage? i have no problem with that.

CablinasianRam
10 May 2005, 11:06 AM
While we're at it, my garden needs to be mulched, can I give the Sheriff Rick a ring?

I have the urge to drive past these guys blasting "Chain Gang of Love" by The Raveonettes.

wileE
10 May 2005, 11:09 AM
While we're at it, my garden needs to be mulched, can I give the Sheriff Rick a ring?
Yes! Do they mow yards, too?

miami2112
10 May 2005, 11:12 AM
carefull there....

you'll have a Shawshank redemption type of thing going on...

wait, wasnt that filmed in mansfield ohio??

more connections......

the happy prole
10 May 2005, 12:11 PM
I don't have a problem with prison laborers doing things like highway trash pickup. Usually those programs are voluntary, so everyone wins.

I do have an problem with the private companies that go in and contract with prisons. Essentially it's slave labor in the US. They outcompete other companies that pay minimum wage, and I don't think the $1.00/hour really helps the inmates very much.

purple_octopus
10 May 2005, 12:21 PM
I believe they should be paid some type of wage for their work.

How about we pay them a "fair wage", but then charge them for the cost of their stay? Why should they get a paycheck & a free ride while the taxpayers are footing the bill for their food, shelter, clothing, laundry, guards' pay, etc... ?

chuxxter
10 May 2005, 01:13 PM
I don't have a problem with prison laborers doing things like highway trash pickup. Usually those programs are voluntary, so everyone wins.

I do have an problem with the private companies that go in and contract with prisons. Essentially it's slave labor in the US. They outcompete other companies that pay minimum wage, and I don't think the $1.00/hour really helps the inmates very much.
Does anyone remember the days when convicted felons automaticlly lost their civil rights while in prison? I for one do not believe you can rehabilitate criminals and I am instantly offended at the idea that $1.00/hour does not help the inmate. Fuck the inmate. He made his choice and he should live with it. What about donating their "pay" to their victims?

purple_octopus
10 May 2005, 01:24 PM
Does anyone remember the days when convicted felons automaticlly lost their civil rights while in prison? I for one do not believe you can rehabilitate criminals and I am instantly offended at the idea that $1.00/hour does not help the inmate. Fuck the inmate. He made his choice and he should live with it. What about donating their "pay" to their victims?

I feel the same way. Fuck the inmates. They are in prison as a direct result of their own choices. It's time to buck up and accept the consequences of their actions. For what it costs to keep someone in jail, they should have to pay off their stay once they get out and start working. I've read it costs anywhere between $20,000 and $40,000 per year per prisoner to keep them locked up. Guess who's footing the bill?

Although I think we need to work to change the laws to keep certain people out of jail who don't really belong there, but that's another thread.

aqualou
10 May 2005, 01:27 PM
I don't have a problem with prison laborers doing things like highway trash pickup. Usually those programs are voluntary, so everyone wins.

I do have an problem with the private companies that go in and contract with prisons.

true. voluntary and community related. cleanup brown spots. there's alot of crap that needs to be cleaned up and if there's no profit it usually doesn't get done. this is where prisoners start.

How about we pay them a "fair wage", but then charge them for the cost of their stay? Why should they get a paycheck & a free ride while the taxpayers are footing the bill for their food, shelter, clothing, laundry, guards' pay, etc... ?

if you have to pay them, then you should charge them. it's a two-way street. of course this will then be contrary to voluntary. if you don't work, you won't get paid. if you don't get paid, how do they charge you. i have no sympathy for this. hard labor my ass. slave labor? cry me a river. i think it should be voluntary and applied to your parole review. this shows that they can be a productive member of society. to pay them is like kicking the honest hard working factory working in the ass. i'm betting alot of factory jobs are harder then picking up trash.

the happy prole
10 May 2005, 01:46 PM
I for one do not believe you can rehabilitate criminals and I am instantly offended at the idea that $1.00/hour does not help the inmate.

I know several people that have been to prison and you wouldn't know it unless they told you. They haven't turned into billionaire philanthropists but they're just as productive to society as the next guy.

As for the $1.00/hour, it's just practical reality. I'm not saying it's supposed to help the inmate-- I'm just saying if it doesn't, then what's the point. You give the guy $1.00 then promptly take it away from them for room and board? Just don't pay them in the first place.

But you will have to give them some reason for working. Prison guards physically beating the inmates into working is probably not saving the state any money.

foolsgold
10 May 2005, 02:07 PM
I've read it costs anywhere between $20,000 and $40,000 per year per prisoner to keep them locked up. Guess who's footing the bill?

I hear this complaint all the time, but what do you suggest as an alternative? Dump them Lord of the Flies style on an island? Summarily execute anyone convicted of a crime? Lock them in a steel building, turn a blind eye to assualts and rapes, strip them of all humanity and make minimal attempts to rehabilitate them then be amazed when they end up in jail again?

purple_octopus
10 May 2005, 03:49 PM
I hear this complaint all the time, but what do you suggest as an alternative? Dump them Lord of the Flies style on an island? Summarily execute anyone convicted of a crime? Lock them in a steel building, turn a blind eye to assualts and rapes, strip them of all humanity and make minimal attempts to rehabilitate them then be amazed when they end up in jail again?

No, we have to keep them somewhere. But I find the notion of paying them "fair wages" to be laughable. They're already getting $20,000-$40,000 worth of taxpayer money in food, shelter and services. If you charged them back for everything they took from the system, they'd end up owing big.

chuxxter
10 May 2005, 04:54 PM
I know several people that have been to prison and you wouldn't know it unless they told you. They haven't turned into billionaire philanthropists but they're just as productive to society as the next guy.

As for the $1.00/hour, it's just practical reality. I'm not saying it's supposed to help the inmate-- I'm just saying if it doesn't, then what's the point. You give the guy $1.00 then promptly take it away from them for room and board? Just don't pay them in the first place.

But you will have to give them some reason for working. Prison guards physically beating the inmates into working is probably not saving the state any money.
Are you friggin' serious?? Give them a reason for working?? What kind of bullshit is this. How about making them work just to be productive while they pay off their debt to society? I honestly cannot believe that prisoners need a reason for working. These are not law abiding citizens, these are convicted felons whose only reason for doing anything is to justify the cost we taxpayers have to pay to keep them in cable tv and weight rooms and prison libraries. WTF!! a REASON TO WORK??? :mad: :mad:

markalot
10 May 2005, 04:57 PM
Are you friggin' serious?? Give them a reason for working?? What kind of bullshit is this. How about making them work just to be productive while they pay off their debt to society? I honestly cannot believe that prisoners need a reason for working. These are not law abiding citizens, these are convicted felons whose only reason for doing anything is to justify the cost we taxpayers have to pay to keep them in cable tv and weight rooms and prison libraries. WTF!! a REASON TO WORK??? :mad: :mad:

Ok, convicts cost us a lot of money.

So the best plan would be one that keeps them OUT of jail, correct?

chuxxter
10 May 2005, 05:16 PM
Ok, convicts cost us a lot of money.

So the best plan would be one that keeps them OUT of jail, correct?
Listen, I never professed to have all the answers, but I am sick and tired of this mollycoddling attitude we have toward prisoners today. I am all for trying to keep tham out of prison. Education funding in this country is woefully inadequate, and job oppurtunities now are worse than ever. But, once the choice has been made, and oftimes repeated, can we please stop acting like noone was hurt by their choices? It is not an issue of costing money to me, it is an issue of respect for the victims civil rights as well as their feelings. Today, too much emphasis is placed on the rights of the accused, and not enough on the rights of the victims. All I woiuld like is for people to hold these men and women responsible for their actions, and not treat them like poor, unfortunate victims of the system.

Ol' Lefthander
10 May 2005, 07:39 PM
assuming their rights arent violated.
As far as I am concerned, once you're in prison you have no rights. none. zero. zilch. You're there for a reason, and you should deal with it.

markalot
10 May 2005, 08:29 PM
Listen, I never professed to have all the answers, but I am sick and tired of this mollycoddling attitude we have toward prisoners today

Right, but we've had this discussion earlier in this forum and it was proven, to me anyway, that HARD LABOR INCREASED INCIDENCES OF REPEAT OFFENDERS.

So while coddeling them isn't cool, neither is hard labor. The answer, as always, is somewhere in the middle.

yoshomon
10 May 2005, 09:01 PM
Slavery is slavery, no matter who the slaves are.

yoshomon
10 May 2005, 09:04 PM
As far as I am concerned, once you're in prison you have no rights. none. zero. zilch. You're there for a reason, and you should deal with it.

For most prisoners, I can name the reasons:

a) bullshit law enforcement/court system
b) bullshit "war on drugs"
c) being poor
d) wrong place, wrong time

And for a ton of prisoners, being people of color doesn't help very much either.

the happy prole
11 May 2005, 12:56 AM
In cali they have them fight forest fires, which is definitly hard labor.

But look what it did for Coolio!

I pretty much agree with MarkaLot here. It's not just about the victim's rights, it is also about the rights of everyone else not to be future victims. You may deserve 10 hard years in prison and only get 5 soft years. If that spares some entirely innocent victim from being killed, raped, or robbed in the future. I'll take it. My desire for retribution is nowhere near as important as your right to live.

purple_octopus
11 May 2005, 06:07 AM
eh - just shoot 'em all and be done with it.

Unfortunately, I don't think we can determine guilt with 100% certainty in all cases, so shooting them (while cost effective) is probably not a good answer. Aside from the fact that some crimes that we currently punish with prison time shouldn't be crimes at all, in my opinion.