High IQ Group Welcomes Three Year Old

[Jasmine]

High IQ Group Welcomes Three Year Old

Feb. 24, 2005 — A three-year-old boy with an intelligence quotient of 137 has become the youngest current member of the British chapter of Mensa, an international society for highly-intelligent people, Mensa said recently.

Mikhail Ali, from the northern English city of Leeds, was admitted to Mensa after undergoing tests at the University of York, it said. The toddler's IQ puts him in the top two percent of the population for his age.

Mensa has only 30 members in Britain under the age of 10, but a spokeswoman said Mikhail is currently the youngest member of the society, which has more than 25,500 members in Britain and almost 100,000 worldwide.

"We're incredibly proud of him. We knew he was a gifted child but we had no idea quite how gifted until now," his mother, Shamsun, 36, told the Yorkshire Evening Post newspaper.

"Every day he amazes us, but underneath it all he's still our little boy, too. He still plays with his toys and demands food."

Mikhail learned to read and write basic words as a two-year-old, and also understands the Arabic alphabet.

He completed a number of tests involving maths, number sequences, logic and picture puzzles during the assessment.

His parents now want Mikhail, who attends a nursery class, to start school, but a number of schools have told them he might not be "emotionally ready."

"We really think he's ready to start school. He's progressing so quickly that it's difficult for us to keep him challenged," his mother said.

"We're keen for him to get on but we also want to give him a normal life. We don't want to put too much pressure on him," his father, Tahir, 37, said.

Mensa, which is Latin for table, seeks to identify and foster human intelligence for the benefit of humanity, according to the British chapter's website.

It also seeks to provide a stimulating intellectual and social environment for its members as well as to encourage research into the nature, characteristics, and uses of intelligence.

[almaniac27]

This seems like a premise to a bad TV movie to me...don't let Lifetime read this thread!!

[Duemellon]

*ugh*

Great, they'll feed him all this knowledge & stuff & he'll begin regurgitating facts, learning to conform, & be rewarded for his ability to rediscover the discovered.

Many ppl who get straight A's get them because they learned how to do those things. They're the smartest ppl, but they've become the "perfect drone" for society. I hope they really give him an opportunity to challenge the world with creative thought instead of training him to be a wealth of previous knowledge.

[ajax]

MENSA allows people of all ages to their ranks. Actually, their standards for membership isn't as high as one might think.

[redraven]

MENSA allows people of all ages to their ranks. Actually, their standards for membership isn't as high as one might think.

The only standard for membership that I am aware of is a score in the 98th percentile on one of several well-know standardized exams. I got in with my 31 on the ACT, back in the day (I don't think they allow this test anymore.) Supposedly, this correlates roughly with an IQ of 132. When I was active in Cinti Mensa, there were a couple members who were always being kidded about being in the "132 club". There are more stringent societies, including the triple 9 society (I think this is the correct name), which requires an IQ in the 99.9th percentile.

I agree with Due that many people who get straight As are often regurgitators, but I met very few of this type in Mensa. They're actually a collection of very unique, albeit often very boring, individuals.

[Sushi]

My uncle is a member. Local Mensa groups will occasionally offer a standardized test for membership. I took it about 15 years ago and was one point below the cut-off (which I think was God's way of saying don't be an arrogant little shit).

The only criterion for membership is that your IQ be in the top two percent of the population. They will accept any number of standardized tests, such as the WAICS-R, the SAT, LSAT, and others. There's only 100,000 members worldwide because many people who qualify for membership have no interest in joining.

If my three-year-old scored in the top two percent on any standardized test, I would keep that information in the family and use it to guide his/her education. No use in letting the kid turn into an arrogant little shit.

[redraven]

My uncle is a member. Local Mensa groups will occasionally offer a standardized test for membership. I took it about 15 years ago and was one point below the cut-off (which I think was God's way of saying don't be an arrogant little shit).

If my three-year-old scored in the top two percent on any standardized test, I would keep that information in the family and use it to guide his/her education. No use in letting the kid turn into an arrogant little shit.

Don't be so quick to judge, sushi. How many Mensa gatherings have you attended? I've gone to local, regional, and International gatherings, and while we have more than our fair share of arrogant folks, many are as common as old shoe leather. I like to think that I am one of those.

[Duemellon]

I think the frequency of arrogance in the MENSA's is close to the average arrogance of the non-MENSA, it's just that we tend to accept their arrogance more easily (we think it's validated) because of their credentials.

But really, we reward people for rhetoric in our society, but these people don't become leaders, these people become A-one followers! I would never want a conventionally "A student" to be the leader of an organization sufferring from external crisis.

[weeone]

*ugh*

Great, they'll feed him all this knowledge & stuff & he'll begin regurgitating facts, learning to conform, & be rewarded for his ability to rediscover the discovered.

Many ppl who get straight A's get them because they learned how to do those things. They're the smartest ppl, but they've become the "perfect drone" for society. I hope they really give him an opportunity to challenge the world with creative thought instead of training him to be a wealth of previous knowledge.

Hey, Due, some of us dorks who got A's are not drones. For someone who has a unique outlook on some things, you jump to really goofy generalizations. Some people are just good at school. And ANYHOW, getting A's in school is a much different situation than being a genius. Much different. Because I am definitely not a genius. I took one IQ test in my life and I am about -75 to -80 degrees from the top of the bell curve. Which is not genius.

http://www.intelligencetest.com/images/bellcurve2.gif

[Duemellon]

Hey, Due, some of us dorks who got A's are not drones.versus:Many ppl who get straight A's get them because they learned how to do those things. I said "many" because that's what I meant. It wasn't a generalization because it wasn't a generalization.

[akip]

dm's got an iq over 132, i guarantee it. but smart people are cool. i love smart people. geniuses are even crazier.

[redraven]

geniuses are even crazier.

Amen! One of our smarter members could talk of nothing but breeding poodles (in explicit detail, at that.) He would always try to corner you in the room so that you had no escape. AAAHHHHHHH!!!!

[Handy Smurf]

society, which has more than 25,500 members in Britain and almost 100,000 worldwide.
Does this mean British people are smarter than the rest of us? Does that apply to Cockney Rebel?
The only standard for membership that I am aware of is a score in the 98th percentile on one of several well-know standardized exams. I got in with my 31 on the ACT, back in the day (I don't think they allow this test anymore.)
That doesn't seem right, because I'm one of at least 8 people I know from my HS alone who scored over 31 on the ACT...in fact my friend Gaurav got a perfect score

[akip]

Amen! One of our smarter members could talk of nothing but breeding poodles (in explicit detail, at that.) He would always try to corner you in the room so that you had no escape. AAAHHHHHHH!!!!

my genius buddy tells me EVERYTHING in explicit detail---i ask him one question and he only gives me the answer after first answering, in maddening detail, 5 other remotely-connected questions i didn't ask him. it blows my mind. he drives everybody else nuts, but i think he's a trip.

[redraven]

That doesn't seem right, because I'm one of at least 8 people I know from my HS alone who scored over 31 on the ACT...in fact my friend Gaurav got a perfect score

Not sure when you took the ACT, but did any of you apply to Mensa? If you took it before they stopped using the test, you're probably eligible.

my genius buddy tells me EVERYTHING in explicit detail---i ask him one question and he only gives me the answer after first answering, in maddening detail, 5 other remotely-connected questions i didn't ask him.

Yeah, I had a physics professor I absolutely loved, but if you asked him the time, he would tell you how to make an atomic clock, without ever actually giving you the time.

[akip]

Yeah, I had a physics professor I absolutely loved, but if you asked him the time, he would tell you how to make an atomic clock, without ever actually giving you the time.


that's SOOO f*ckin' great! i love these eggheads!!! half the time they have their pants on backwards and don't even realize it.

[Handy Smurf]

Not sure when you took the ACT, but did any of you apply to Mensa? If you took it before they stopped using the test, you're probably eligible.
I graduated in 2000, so I probably took it in...late 98 early 99?
As far as I know nobody applied to mensa, but the same guy who got the perfect score came within a fraction of acing his MCATs

that's SOOO f*ckin' great! i love these eggheads!!! half the time they have their pants on backwards and don't even realize it.
That image is going to keep me laughing throughout the entire day :p
I'm picturing some toilet paper stuck on the shoe as well

[Sushi]

Don't be so quick to judge, sushi. How many Mensa gatherings have you attended? I've gone to local, regional, and International gatherings, and while we have more than our fair share of arrogant folks, many are as common as old shoe leather. I like to think that I am one of those.
I wasn't judging--sorry if you read my post as though I were. At the time I took the test, I was being an arrogant little shit about my intellect. I consider my score the universe's comeuppance for my attitude at the time. Sorry if the way I phrased that offended you. (My Mensa uncle is pretty normal, except his social life revolves around chess tournaments. Of course, I can't talk, considering how much of my life is starting to revolve around a virtual community.)

I suppose I worry about a little three-year-old getting all sorts of attention because he happened to be born with a good brain. How many toddlers are being discussed by strangers in a different country? I wish wisdom and good judgement to his parents--they will need it to help him grow up balanced and not, well, an arrogant little git.

[Duemellon]

yah, eccentric geniuses are "great" :rolleyes:

[grebo]

It's just not right. I'm just as smart as this kid, I'm stronger, I can run faster, and I'm probably better looking. But nobody is talking about me.

[weeone]

versus:I said "many" because that's what I meant. It wasn't a generalization because it wasn't a generalization.

Plants a big fat kiss on Due to shut him up. :p

[Duemellon]

Plants a big fat kiss on Due to shut him up. :pI'm telling your man.

[weeone]

I'm telling your man.

Well, I had to do something.

[Emperor Wog]

All I can say about this is
1/ 0 |sin(x)| a < 1 then 0 |sin^4(x)| |sin^3(a)| Then sqt(1-a?) |cos(x)| 1 And cos^3(1-a?) |cos^4(x)| cos^3(1) = 0.6542897905

That's all you got to do to solve sin(sin(sin(sin(x)))) = cos(cos(cos(cos(x))))

[the happy prole]

The kid's already messed up. Who gives their kid an IQ test at age 3?

There's something inherently arrogant about joining a club that's only for smart people celebrating their intelligence, which is why I won't join Mensa.

But it's also true that the people I know that are in Mensa aren't arrogant. They joined because they like puzzles, chess and mentally-stimulating type stuff and Mensa gives them an opportunity to do those activities in a social environment.

[Handy Smurf]

oh yeah, well I bet I could kick that kids ass
"Who's a genius now assface?!"

[Sovrana]

"We're keen for him to get on but we also want to give him a normal life. We don't want to put too much pressure on him," his father, Tahir, 37, said.



Yet they give their 3 yr old an IQ test and want him to start school.
(I know I am repeating the happy prole but I wanted to quote the parent and restate it for effect.)

[Lidja]

I got a 130something when I took an IQ test as a kid...
Took my ACTs once and got a 26 (decent)
I duno. I know I'm smart and I have a high capacity for learning but I have a severe deficiency in the... motivation? department. It sucks. Like right now I am posting instead of writing a paper in spanish.

[akip]

I know I'm smart and I have a high capacity for learning but I have a severe deficiency in the... motivation? department.


story of my life.

[Handy Smurf]

I got a 130something when I took an IQ test as a kid...
Took my ACTs once and got a 26 (decent)
I duno. I know I'm smart and I have a high capacity for learning but I have a severe deficiency in the... motivation? department. It sucks. Like right now I am posting instead of writing a paper in spanish.
Thats exactly why I've always tested through the roof but still managed to fail miserably at everything

[weeone]

Thats exactly why I've always tested through the roof but still managed to fail miserably at everything

I've never been tested really - I mean ACT : 31 and IQ 136. That's it. Maybe that's why I'm not really a failure. :p I'm sure you aren't either. Anyhow, I just took the tests because I had to. However, Lidja, I can relate on that motivation comment. Sometimes it's just so nice to sit and nest and just be.

[akip]

However, Lidja, I can relate on that motivation comment. Sometimes it's just so nice to sit and nest and just be.

or you can do what i did---marry somebody who is motivated and have your life driven by their ambitious forcefield.

[weeone]

or you can do what i did---marry somebody who is motivated and have your life driven by their ambitious forcefield.

Wellllll, I'm on my way. I can hardly pin by boyfriend down long enough to kiss his sweet face. He's a jet-setting drummer :)

[atomikdarling]

My boyfriend has an I.Q. of 170. He was a straight C student in high school.

[akip]

My boyfriend has an I.Q. of 170. He was a straight C student in high school.

i don't know what my husband's iq is, but he was a c student too. and he's the success story.

that's why i tell all the neurotic parents i know who are stressing over their kids' test scores---it's eq, baby, not iq.

[Sushi]

that's why i tell all the neurotic parents i know who are stressing over their kids' test scores---it's eq, baby, not iq.
Dig.

here's 10 more characters

[akip]

have you read the book, 'emotional intelligence'?

it taught me that my parents suck.

i only read the time magazine distillation, but it left a big impression on me. it greatly influences me as a parent.

[atomikdarling]

Huh... I just broke down and took an I.Q. test for the very first time. Granted, it's an online one, but still... I got 147. I guess motivation really is the deciding factor, because I'm a college dropout. I like to sleep a lot. So sue me.

[Duemellon]

1st, ask yourself how these intellectual entities test intelligence.

2nd, ask yourself how useful that information is when you're faced with the unknowne

3rd, ask how much you knew, in life, before you got there

Very intelligent people are measured by their ability to conform to previous knowledge. If our educational systems actually rewarded people for novel ideas or challenges to the standard, we'd have a much more progressive society in the future. However, we'd lose our ability to compare one person's intelligence to another's drive to another's creativity. Each one of those things is a strength to have on it's own and each emulate each other in the outcome, but our society bought into the idea that there's only one way to measure those abilities and misnamed it "intelligence".

I find one of my younger sisters to be much more intelligent than she's given credit, resourceful, and all that, and she's notably LD. Why anyone would look at her and label her "stupid" I just don't understand.

Our priorities about measuring the worthiness of other humans by some objective means is completely skewed in it's intent and methods.

[the-dude]

I used to be what the teachers probably would call a "bad kid". I had bad grades and was always getting in trouble. Then, in 3rd grade, I took some standardized test (I dont remember what it was) and all of the sudden they put me in the smart people classes. I was contacted by a ton of groups including Mensa and something called the Midwest Talent Search. I took the ACT in 4th grade and got a 25. When I took it as a senior in HS, I got a 27, only 2 points higher (and I dropped in reading by 10 points!). hehe, I think I killed off my genius brain cells, if you get my drift.

So, I never had good grades, but since they shoved me in the smart classes, in HS those were weighted higher, so I remained a C student, but had a pretty high class rank approximately equal to a regular student who got A's. What a gift. I could continue my slacker ways and still "succeed".

I honestly believe my life was handed to me basically because of my score on that one test. I am certain that I would be in a completely different, and likely less favorable, situation otherwise.

[Handy Smurf]

1st, ask yourself how these intellectual entities test intelligence.

2nd, ask yourself how useful that information is when you're faced with the unknowne

3rd, ask how much you knew, in life, before you got there

Very intelligent people are measured by their ability to conform to previous knowledge. If our educational systems actually rewarded people for novel ideas or challenges to the standard, we'd have a much more progressive society in the future. However, we'd lose our ability to compare one person's intelligence to another's drive to another's creativity. Each one of those things is a strength to have on it's own and each emulate each other in the outcome, but our society bought into the idea that there's only one way to measure those abilities and misnamed it "intelligence".

I find one of my younger sisters to be much more intelligent than she's given credit, resourceful, and all that, and she's notably LD. Why anyone would look at her and label her "stupid" I just don't understand.

Our priorities about measuring the worthiness of other humans by some objective means is completely skewed in it's intent and methods.
I think Due makes an interesting point...why the hell does any of this matter anyway? what infallible entity comes up with the test to determine your IQ? what does it really mean anyway? should we care?

[weeone]

I think Due makes an interesting point...why the hell does any of this matter anyway? what infallible entity comes up with the test to determine your IQ? what does it really mean anyway? should we care?

It means: you got this amount of questions-that-accredited-people-determined-quantify-your-intelligence correct, and you got this much wrong. Therefore, you are this smart according to accredited people.

[the happy prole]

1) Part of that is not really a fault of the tests, it's a fault of society. The verbal, mathematical, and logical skills you use on those tests come in handy in a variety of ways. People just need to learn not to overemphasize that particular skillset.

2) Your dislike of anything conformist bleeds through here. It's not so much about facing the unknown, it's about having less things unknown to begin with. If the facts and data you have aren't directly applicable to the situation, you can still draw parallels to what you DO know. This is true even in the creative fields that don't lend themselves to standardized testing.

3) I don't know any more or less because I did scored well or not-so-well. Like any measurement, they don't change any of the qualities of an object in existence. Unless you want to go all pomo on me.

My major problem with standardized tests isn't so much that they are over-valued indicators of some kind of raw intelligence, but that they don't even correctly measure the limited scope of facts they test on. If you aren't good at standardized, multiple-choice tests you are probably giving away 10 percentile points to me right off the bat. And that's enough to make a huge, huge difference in education and career options.

[the-dude]

This place has the best IQ tests on the Net I think.... They are fun to take and very challenging.

http://www.highiqsociety.org

Almost everyone I know has gotten a genius mark with the timed test, so I think that is the easiest.

The Ultimate Test and the Test for Exceptional Intelligence are challenging. This is pretty much a meaningless excercise, but I like taking tests. The "society" is really just a money-making institution IMO, but the tests are well thought out and test spacial reasoning and pattern recognition very well.

They even have a "Culture Fair" iq test, whatever that's worth.

[Sushi]

Almost everyone I know has gotten a genius mark with the timed test..
I have to ask: Do you live in Lake Wobegon (where all the children are above average)? Or is this just a case of smart people hanging around with other smart people because slow people don't get our jokes?

Interesting story you told about childhood testing. Amazing how one test can change someone's life permanently.

[Handy Smurf]

1) Part of that is not really a fault of the tests, it's a fault of society. The verbal, mathematical, and logical skills you use on those tests come in handy in a variety of ways. People just need to learn not to overemphasize that particular skillset.

2) Your dislike of anything conformist bleeds through here. It's not so much about facing the unknown, it's about having less things unknown to begin with. If the facts and data you have aren't directly applicable to the situation, you can still draw parallels to what you DO know. This is true even in the creative fields that don't lend themselves to standardized testing.

3) I don't know any more or less because I did scored well or not-so-well. Like any measurement, they don't change any of the qualities of an object in existence. Unless you want to go all pomo on me.

My major problem with standardized tests isn't so much that they are over-valued indicators of some kind of raw intelligence, but that they don't even correctly measure the limited scope of facts they test on. If you aren't good at standardized, multiple-choice tests you are probably giving away 10 percentile points to me right off the bat. And that's enough to make a huge, huge difference in education and career options.

1) I loathe conformity
2) Do be surprised it I get all post modern on yo ass, but I'll refrain from doing so today :D

[atomikdarling]

we also did a thing called
'olympics of the mind' where we competed against quest kids at other schools.

Are you sure that wasn't Odyssey of the Mind?

[weeone]

I conform to only those institutions and ideals of the non-conformist variety: hating IQs, loving rock, hookers, blow and drinking booze.

[Duemellon]

2) Your dislike of anything conformist bleeds through here. It's not so much about facing the unknown, it's about having less things unknown to begin with. If the facts and data you have aren't directly applicable to the situation, you can still draw parallels to what you DO know. This is true even in the creative fields that don't lend themselves to standardized testing.one area me & u would fight for the rest of eternity over is the acceptance of those things already answered.

I mean, I reinvestigate why we use the binary system in computers. I've investigated how the Theory of Relativity isn't right. I've studied and disputed historical facts.

Sorry, if you told me the Earth was round and I had information that even suggested it was wrong I'd go about finding information to figure that out.

Therefore, to you, it might seem better to "reduce the amount that is unknown" but for me it's better to "trust your own senses and logic to investigate what is assumed." After all, it took about 16 million years before humanity realized that the ocean doesn't boil & boat catch ablaze in the sea.

[ideoplastic]

in my elementary and middle school we had a thing called 'quest'.
i'd get taken out of regular classes for like an hour a day with a handfull of
other kids and we'd work on creative bullshit like writing plays and architecture and stuff. i had no idea why i was there at the time, but
i guess i did well on some standardized tests. we also did a thing called
'olympics of the mind' where we competed against quest kids at other schools.


In fourth and fifth grades, I participated in Odyssey of the Mind too, although the teams never made it further than regionals in competition. At my elementary school, however, it was open to any kid that tried out and made it, even if there was a disproportionate amount of Gifted/Talented program students. The G/T program was not very structured and sounds nothing like Quest. I always thought those supplement classes were a joke.

[redraven]

I have to ask: Do you live in Lake Wobegon (where all the children are above average)?

OH. MY. GOD... I would love to live in Lake Wobegon (nee New Albion.) Are you a fan of the show? Should we start (or is there already) a thread on the subject?

And for those who bemoan everything that is wrong with corporate radio, you really need to read Garrison Keillor's "WLT: A Radio Romance."

[purple_octopus]

They let him in with 137? That seems kind of low. I thought the cutoff was a little higher than that. Not that I've ever paid attention to Mensa...

[the happy prole]

I don't think the Theory of Relativity is correct and that you are wrong. I think that you don't understand the Theory of Relativity properly. Two different things.

But really, the difference between you and I is that I don't think you can gather too much information. Read all you can, get all the data and theories that out there. If you don't like them, you don't have to use them. At worst, you wasted some time.

You believe that you CAN do too much fact gathering and reading. You think if you read too much you start getting boxed in and thinking like the authors of the book and you lose your independent perspective.

[purple_octopus]

137 on one test could be 160 on another test. that's why menstra goes by percentile instead of an arbitrary number.
(Emphasis added by me.)
Hysterical!

[Duemellon]

You think if you read too much you start getting boxed in and thinking like the authors of the book and you lose your independent perspective.that is correct, but not completely.

It's more about losing the objectivity b/c u make assumptions based on other's knowledge.

[Handy Smurf]

Yeah, I cant see why it isnt always good to immerse yourself in as many perspectives as possible, from there decide which ones you agree with

[classicgrrl]

This place has the best IQ tests on the Net I think.... They are fun to take and very challenging.
[url]http://www.highiqsociety.org[/url.

I took all the tests. I scored best on the first (113) and average on others. I did the worst on the timed test (90) and so completely misunderstood the culture fair test that I guessed not bothering to even try to "read" the questions. Scored well below average. Gave up on the last test as I didn't understand the questions.

On my SAT I scored so low I couldn't get into college.
Took the ACT twice and scored 20 and 25 respectively.
My graduated in highschool with a 3.4 and graduated bachelors with a 3.6. In college, I purposely choose an "easy" major so I would have the best odds of graduating. I will refrain from saying what that major was so I don't offend someone.

Iowa Basic Skills test: Took the last one as a sophomore. Scored below average on every single category except manual dexterity. Was counciled I would make a great typist.

Long story short: I am the ONE person posting to this thread who is at or just below average (and willing to admit it). Anyone who meets me and speaks with me always comments how intelligent I am.

Either:
A. my obvious lack of belief in self directly affects/effects (I never know which one) my testing abilities and thereby I don't test well

or
B. I have many people snowed.

[classicgrrl]

I don't think the Theory of Relativity is correct and that you are wrong. I think that you don't understand the Theory of Relativity properly. Two different things.

But really, the difference between you and I is that I don't think you can gather too much information. Read all you can, get all the data and theories that out there. If you don't like them, you don't have to use them. At worst, you wasted some time.

You believe that you CAN do too much fact gathering and reading. You think if you read too much you start getting boxed in and thinking like the authors of the book and you lose your independent perspective.

If you want to write, either read all the writers you can or read none of them.

If you want to paint, either study all the painters/periods and techniques or none of them.

[classicgrrl]

i only read the time magazine distillation, but it left a big impression on me. it greatly influences me as a parent.


Really? I thought it was bunch of bullshit but that's because I have none. :p

[classicgrrl]

I think Due makes an interesting point...why the hell does any of this matter anyway? what infallible entity comes up with the test to determine your IQ? what does it really mean anyway? should we care?

sorry to be a posting whore in this thread - I studied this extensively in college...

Ever read the Bell Curve? That is where much of this crap comes from...and it's complete garbage too. seriously.

A fabulous man (Stephen Gould) wrote a counter to the Bell Curve called the Mismeasure of Man.
From Amazon:
How smart are you? If that question doesn't spark a dozen more questions in your mind (like "What do you mean by 'smart,'" "How do I measure it," and "Who's asking?"), then The Mismeasure of Man, Stephen Jay Gould's masterful demolition of the IQ industry, should be required reading. Gould's brilliant, funny, engaging prose dissects the motivations behind those who would judge intelligence, and hence worth, by cranial size, convolutions, or score on extremely narrow tests. How did scientists decide that intelligence was unipolar and quantifiable, and why did the standard keep changing over time? Gould's answer is clear and simple: power maintains itself. European men of the 19th century, even before Darwin, saw themselves as the pinnacle of creation and sought to prove this assertion through hard measurement. When one measure was found to place members of some "inferior" group such as women or Southeast Asians over the supposedly rightful champions, it would be discarded and replaced with a new, more comfortable measure. The 20th-century obsession with numbers led to the institutionalization of IQ testing and subsequent assignment to work (and rewards) commensurate with the score, shown by Gould to be not simply misguided--for surely intelligence is multifactorial--but also regressive, creating a feedback loop rewarding the rich and powerful. The revised edition includes a scathing critique of Herrnstein and Murray's The Bell Curve, taking them to task for rehashing old arguments to exploit a new political wave of uncaring and belt tightening. It might not make you any smarter, but The Mismeasure of Man will certainly make you think. --Rob Lightner --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.

[the happy prole]

I took all the tests. I scored best on the first (113) and average on others. I did the worst on the timed test (90) and so completely misunderstood the culture fair test that I guessed not bothering to even try to "read" the questions. Scored well below average. Gave up on the last test as I didn't understand the questions.

You beat me. I'm fairly certain I got the first 8 questions right. Then I got so annoyed I quit. Persistence wins over short attention span.

No one gives a crap how "smart" you are anyway. Most people aren't really interested in discovering or searching for answers to things. I would give up 50 IQ points in a flash to be 6'2" and studly looking.

And "The Bell Curve" is just a piss-poor stupidly written book. You don't even have to attack it on the deeper cultural bias questions. The methodology is terrible; it's essentially nothing more than a horrible torture of statistics sprinkled with some outright lies.

[classicgrrl]

I would give up 50 IQ points in a flash to be 6'2" and studly looking.

are you fucking insane?!?

you're gorgeous! and no I not blowin' smoke neither.

If not for for the fact that:
I love Phreon
You're in DC
And you don't like me

I would have totally asked you out.


ladies - cute nerd above in isle 5 go get him ^

[Phreon]

And "The Bell Curve" is just a piss-poor stupidly written book. You don't even have to attack it on the deeper cultural bias questions. The methodology is terrible; it's essentially nothing more than a horrible torture of statistics sprinkled with some outright lies.

And yet it's the cornerstone of the American educational system. A bible to an entire generation of educators.

Frightening, isn't it?

Phreon

[eno is god]

gay thread, 142.

[Duemellon]

Piston Honda? Popinksi? Are they all coming back? Who'll dare be Bald Bull? & who'll be the suckaz who'll be Glass Joe?

[Wolverine]

http://www.cmbi.kun.nl/tutorials/bioinf/GDB5.6-OMIM/genius.gif

[akip]

Really? I thought it was bunch of bullshit but that's because I have none. :p

what made sense to me---because i've seen it my whole life---is that people succeed for personality reasons. it's obvious and significant to me, even in its obviousness, because i have to deal with it everyday, in an american school system which is obsessed with test scores and academic competition because of money, money, money.

i was pretty much forced by the school to have my kid tested for ADD last summer. i'm not gonna waste space going into it, but i have to advocate for my kid in a system that has its own agenda. the schools want your kid to do well so that they look good. they're focused on their rankings above all else.

edited to add this topic gets me emotional right now for political reasons as well as the personal. there's a big conservative agenda getting pushed through the schools and it's not just about getting american kids to do better.

[Sushi]

OH. MY. GOD... I would love to live in Lake Wobegon (nee New Albion.) Are you a fan of the show? Should we start (or is there already) a thread on the subject?

And for those who bemoan everything that is wrong with corporate radio, you really need to read Garrison Keillor's "WLT: A Radio Romance."
Powder Milk Biscuits: giving shy people the strength to get up and do what needs to be done. (Heavens, they're tasty!)

Love that show. Don't know if there's a thread. If you haven't started one already, I'll do so. (It may just be you and me talking about lonely Norweigian bachelor farmers, but so what?)

[rcc94]

Powder Milk Biscuits: giving shy people the strength to get up and do what needs to be done. (Heavens, they're tasty!)

Love that show. Don't know if there's a thread. If you haven't started one already, I'll do so. (It may just be you and me talking about lonely Norweigian bachelor farmers, but so what?)

I'll talk, too, so I started one at here (http://woxy.com/boards/showthread.php?p=450402). It's just starting now (the show, that is).