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View Full Version : Put Away your Hankies.. a Message from Michael Moore


tobedawg
23 Sep 2004, 10:25 AM
9/20/04

Dear Friends,

Enough of the handwringing! Enough of the doomsaying! Do I have to come there and personally calm you down? Stop with all the defeatism, OK? Bush IS a goner -- IF we all just quit our whining and bellyaching and stop shaking like a bunch of nervous ninnies. Geez, this is embarrassing! The Republicans are laughing at us. Do you ever see them cry, "Oh, it's all over! We are finished! Bush can't win! Waaaaaa!"

Hell no. It's never over for them until the last ballot is shredded. They are never finished -- they just keeping moving forward like sharks that never sleep, always pushing, pulling, kicking, blocking, lying.

They are relentless and that is why we secretly admire them -- they just simply never, ever give up. Only 30% of the country calls itself "Republican," yet the Republicans own it all -- the White House, both houses of Congress, the Supreme Court and the majority of the governorships. How do you think they've been able to pull that off considering they are a minority? It's because they eat you and me and every other liberal for breakfast and then spend the rest of the day wreaking havoc on the planet.

Look at us -- what a bunch of crybabies. Bush gets a bounce after his convention and you would have thought the Germans had run through Poland again. The Bushies are coming, the Bushies are coming! Yes, they caught Kerry asleep on the Swift Boat thing. Yes, they found the frequency in Dan Rather and ran with it. Suddenly it's like, "THE END IS NEAR! THE SKY IS FALLING!"

No, it is not. If I hear one more person tell me how lousy a candidate Kerry is and how he can't win... Dammit, of COURSE he's a lousy candidate -- he's a Democrat, for heavens sake! That party is so pathetic, they even lose the elections they win! What were you expecting, Bruce Springsteen heading up the ticket? Bruce would make a helluva president, but guys like him don't run -- and neither do you or I. People like Kerry run.

Yes, OF COURSE any of us would have run a better, smarter, kick-ass campaign. Of course we would have smacked each and every one of those phony swifty boaty bastards down. But WE are not running for president -- Kerry is. So quit complaining and work with what we have. Oprah just gave 300 women a... Pontiac! Did you see any of them frowning and moaning and screaming, "Oh God, NOT a friggin' Pontiac!" Of course not, they were happy. The Pontiacs all had four wheels, an engine and a gas pedal. You want more than that, well, I can't help you. I had a Pontiac once and it lasted a good year. And it was a VERY good year.

My friends, it is time for a reality check.

1. The polls are wrong. They are all over the map like diarrhea. On Friday, one poll had Bush 13 points ahead -- and another poll had them both tied. There are three reasons why the polls are b.s.: One, they are polling "likely voters." "Likely" means those who have consistently voted in the past few elections. So that cuts out young people who are voting for the first time and a ton of non-voters who are definitely going to vote in THIS election. Second, they are not polling people who use their cell phone as their primary phone. Again, that means they are not talking to young people. Finally, most of the polls are weighted with too many Republicans, as pollster John Zogby revealed last week. You are being snookered if you believe any of these polls.

2. Kerry has brought in the Clinton A-team. Instead of shunning Clinton (as Gore did), Kerry has decided to not make that mistake.

3. Traveling around the country, as I've been doing, I gotta tell ya, there is a hell of a lot of unrest out there. Much of it is not being captured by the mainstream press. But it is simmering and it is real. Do not let those well-produced Bush rallies of angry white people scare you. Turn off the TV! (Except Jon Stewart and Bill Moyers -- everything else is just a sugar-coated lie).

4. Conventional wisdom says if the election is decided on "9/11" (the fear of terrorism), Bush wins. But if it is decided on the job we are doing in Iraq, then Bush loses. And folks, that "job," you might have noticed, has descended into the third level of a hell we used to call Vietnam. There is no way out. It is a full-blown mess of a quagmire and the body bags will sadly only mount higher. Regardless of what Kerry meant by his original war vote, he ain't the one who sent those kids to their deaths -- and Mr. and Mrs. Middle America knows it. Had Bush bothered to show up when he was in the "service" he might have somewhat of a clue as to how to recognize an immoral war that cannot be "won." All he has delivered to Iraq was that plasticized turkey last Thanksgiving. It is this failure of monumental proportions that is going to cook his goose come this November.

So, do not despair. All is not over. Far from it. The Bush people need you to believe that it is over. They need you to slump back into your easy chair and feel that sick pain in your gut as you contemplate another four years of George W. Bush. They need you to wish we had a candidate who didn't windsurf and who was just as smart as we were when WE knew Bush was lying about WMD and Saddam planning 9/11. It's like Karl Rove is hypnotizing you -- "Kerry voted for the war...Kerry voted for the war...Kerrrrrryyy vooootted fooooor theeee warrrrrrrrrr..."

Yes...Yes...Yesssss...He did! HE DID! No sense in fighting now...what I need is sleep...sleeep...sleeeeeeppppp...

WAKE UP! The majority are with us! More than half of all Americans are pro-choice, want stronger environmental laws, are appalled that assault weapons are back on the street -- and 54% now believe the war is wrong. YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO CONVINCE THEM OF ANY OF THIS -- YOU JUST HAVE TO GIVE THEM A RAY OF HOPE AND A RIDE TO THE POLLS. CAN YOU DO THAT? WILL YOU DO THAT?

Just for me, please? Buck up. The country is almost back in our hands. Not another negative word until Nov. 3rd! Then you can bitch all you want about how you wish Kerry was still that long-haired kid who once had the courage to stand up for something. Personally, I think that kid is still inside him. Instead of the wailing and gnashing of your teeth, why not hold out a hand to him and help the inner soldier/protester come out and defeat the forces of evil we now so desperately face. Do we have any other choice?

Yours,

Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com
mmflint@aol.com

Duemellon
23 Sep 2004, 10:37 AM
thanx MM...

remember, a vote for no one is a vote for no one.

weezer6
23 Sep 2004, 10:50 AM
i haven't read this post yet, but my initial impression is that it has the same appearance as an ianalex-whatevernumber post, a cut and paste.

back2vinyl
23 Sep 2004, 10:51 AM
If you use the baseball analogy, a vote for a third party is really like half a vote for the guy you supposedly would have voted for if the third party guy wasn't running. Like when the Reds lose to the Cubs, St. Louis gains a half a game on the Reds if St. Louis isn't playing.

Homsar
23 Sep 2004, 11:00 AM
So.......why mention Oprah?
Moore wants the end of Bush, not the beginning of Kerry, that's for sure.
Why the hell would I vote for anyone at all? I'm not going to put Kerry in for Bush cause how does anyone know he'll do what he says this time? I'm not going to keep Bush over Kerry because it's obvious he can't handle being president and having to deal wih other countries. And I'm not going to vote for anyone else who's not going to win and hasn't proved that he can do anything for America.

monkey neck
23 Sep 2004, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by back2vinyl
If you use the baseball analogy, a vote for a third party is really like half a vote for the guy you supposedly would have voted for if the third party guy wasn't running. Like when the Reds lose to the Cubs, St. Louis gains a half a game on the Reds if St. Louis isn't playing.

I found that strangely hilarious.:D

JSpaceman
23 Sep 2004, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by weezer6
i haven't read this post yet, but my initial impression is that it has the same appearance as an ianalex-whatevernumber post, a cut and paste. I suppose, to a degree... but it's pretty positive and it makes me happy. Does that make us two-faced when we bitch about the repetitive conservative cut and pasters? Probably...

Urge26
23 Sep 2004, 11:04 AM
I think MM could sum things up by simply saying just get off your ass, and vote. There is nothing else to say. But I think sometimes he likes to hear himself rant.

Duemellon
23 Sep 2004, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by JSpaceman
I suppose, to a degree... but it's pretty positive and it makes me happy. Does that make us two-faced when we bitch about the repetitive conservative cut and pasters? Probably... nah, u rn't hypocritical..

see, tobe actually makes original posts to... in fact, this is one of his rare thread-starting posts that is a quote. He did that in a flurry a few months ago, but not since.

tobedawg
23 Sep 2004, 01:42 PM
I chose to post this because it gave me hope, optimism, and momentum.. 3 Things that are much needed by the Democratic Party and supporters in the Anybody but Bush camp.

Sure, it's cut and paste, and sure, it's Michael Moore.. but somebody had to say it.. and it may as well have been him.

SteelTown Boy
23 Sep 2004, 01:49 PM
byootiful...and zogby was right.

wileE
23 Sep 2004, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by weezer6
i haven't read this post yet, but my initial impression is that it has the same appearance as an ianalex-whatevernumber post, a cut and paste.

But this is OK because it is for Liberals and the Democratic party. And since tobedawg has been around and posted in other forums, there will be a reasonable discussion and generally positive posts rather than dismissing it out of hand.

paranoidandroid
23 Sep 2004, 02:33 PM
that kettle over there>>>>>>sure seems to be black

Emperor Wog
23 Sep 2004, 02:45 PM
nope, Tobe posts here all the time, participates in other topics, has been here for a while, sticks around for discussions, backs up his posts....


If all he did was paste left-wing crap over and over that is intended only to start flame wars then he'd get the same kind of backlash.


that's the whole fucking argument here. I find it very easy to understand.

ianalex20
23 Sep 2004, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by paranoidandroid
that kettle over there>>>>>>sure seems to be black

I have to agree!

RedRage
23 Sep 2004, 03:22 PM
The Republicans are laughing at us.

Mr. Moore is nervous. Better get him a Twinkie quick.

yoshomon
23 Sep 2004, 03:51 PM
Michael Moore just makes me want to hurt liberals for being so f'n annoying.

paranoidandroid
23 Sep 2004, 04:43 PM
he must be doing something right then.

bash away.

JSpaceman
23 Sep 2004, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Emperor Wog
nope, Tobe posts here all the time, participates in other topics, has been here for a while, sticks around for discussions, backs up his posts....


If all he did was paste left-wing crap over and over that is intended only to start flame wars then he'd get the same kind of backlash.


that's the whole fucking argument here. I find it very easy to understand. Yeah, in response to the pot/kettle/black comment, how many times can this be explained? Seriously. :rolleyes:

paranoidandroid
23 Sep 2004, 05:33 PM
as about as many times as your posts' end with :rolleyes:




;)

JSpaceman
23 Sep 2004, 05:36 PM
I also sometimes like to end them this way... :p

tobedawg
23 Sep 2004, 05:57 PM
I've started "Cut and paste" threads on here before, as have other posters, So.. I really don't know what the big deal is..

Should we not be allowed to cut and paste or post news articles anymore??

I posted this to bring some optimism and momentum to the Kerry/ABB posters that, like me, may be discouraged with the way that polls are going showing John Kerry drop down..

AND I posted it for the Conservative posters to discuss and present an opinion of the polls or Michael Moore's perspective..

I am NOT posting to incite a flame war nor am I posting 10 topics that relates to how much BUSH lied, and cleverly titling them "Texas", "Burton", "Cowboy", "Fool", etc..

postfeminist
23 Sep 2004, 07:27 PM
i appreciated the post. i don't check out moore's website until something draws me there, like this post. so word up, tobe. word up.

markalot
23 Sep 2004, 08:04 PM
MM is Captain Obvious :) Dems won't even turn out to the polls because the seem to have a larger number of people who actually believe that not voting will make a difference.

/shrug

If anything good can come from this, and I'm reaching here, it's that after the election maybe people will realize that voting doesn't get them what they want, but it does make a difference.

Phreon
23 Sep 2004, 09:06 PM
Only 30% of the American population is Republican? Besides that I think Micheal Moore is Jaba-the-media-slut, this number seems suspect. Every article I've ever read shows Repubs and Dems. hovering in the low 40s with the elephantine party usually (not always) edging out the beasts of burden by a percentage point or two.

I think Moore lives by this creedo:

89.362% of all statistics are made up on the spot.


Phreon

beezlebob
23 Sep 2004, 09:32 PM
goddamn tobedawg coming in after posting over 1500 times and then copy/pasting that article! The nerve of that guy! He should have been doing that on his very first post like ianalex20. He totally misrepresented himself. I feel betrayed. You copy/paster! ;)

tobedawg
24 Sep 2004, 12:42 AM
goddamn tobedawg coming in after posting over 1500 times and then copy/pasting that article! The nerve of that guy! He should have been doing that on his very first post like ianalex20. He totally misrepresented himself. I feel betrayed. You copy/paster!

:D

Duemellon
24 Sep 2004, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by beezlebob
goddamn tobedawg coming in after posting over 1500 times and then copy/pasting that article! The nerve of that guy! He should have been doing that on his very first post like ianalex20. He totally misrepresented himself. I feel betrayed. You copy/paster! ;) Dude, it's the same...

pot = couldron = kettle = Knight Rider KITT = Barry White ...

u don't see any of them accusin the other of being Black... right? See, that's the thing...

Black is the simultaneous absence & presence of all colors, depending on if it's a pigment or light source, couple that with the theory of partical escapism when considering singularities inside event horizons & u get irrefutable proof that white is not what a shadow can be.

Strange but true, but I think I just proved that i20 is indeed Tobedawg... or Flabbyghast.... but I'm not sure. I'll have to reread my notes. But we kno this, if he's old enuf to vote, he'll vote Bush.

tobedawg
24 Sep 2004, 09:42 AM
BUSH/CHENEY 04.. !!!

If you are one of those antimerican folks who are voting for Kerry/Fonda, then screw you, you moronic douchebag, go move to France.

Oh wait.. I forgot to change my screen name before I posted.. DAMN! :D

JSpaceman
24 Sep 2004, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by tobedawg

Oh wait.. I forgot to change my screen name before I posted.. DAMN! :D Ha! I knew it was you!!!! :p

back2vinyl
24 Sep 2004, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by Duemellon


Strange but true, but I think I just proved that i20 is indeed Tobedawg... or Flabbyghast.... but I'm not sure. I'll have to reread my notes. But we kno this, if he's old enuf to vote, he'll vote Bush.

If you want to "prove" things that are not necessarily true, you can usually do it be slipping a divide by zero or multiply by infinity in there somewhere while no one is looking.

Shrike
24 Sep 2004, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by tobedawg
BUSH/CHENEY 04.. !!!

If you are one of those antimerican folks who are voting for Kerry/Fonda, then screw you, you moronic douchebag, go move to France.

Oh wait.. I forgot to change my screen name before I posted.. DAMN! :D
At least Fonda apologized for meeting with the VC...

Duemellon
24 Sep 2004, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by Shrike
At least Fonda apologized for meeting with the VC... At least Bush apologized for leading us into an unnecessary war that will only cause more hardships for us in the future.

oh... wait.. he didn't.

yah, i'd rather vote for Fonda.

Shrike
24 Sep 2004, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by Duemellon
At least Bush apologized for leading us into an unnecessary war that will only cause more hardships for us in the future.

oh... wait.. he didn't.

yah, i'd rather vote for Fonda.
I haven't heard Kerry apologize for the same war he voted for and said (paraphrase) "If you beleive Iraq does not have weapon of mass destruction, and is not a threat to our nation, then do not vote for me". circa 2003. Oh how the masses forget.

Shrike
24 Sep 2004, 11:54 AM
Ya know its pretty sad that Micheal "another drumstick please" Moore is the rallying point for the Kerry campaign on here.

Duemellon
24 Sep 2004, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Shrike
I haven't heard Kerry apologize for the same war he voted for and said (paraphrase) "If you beleive Iraq does not have weapon of mass destruction, and is not a threat to our nation, then do not vote for me". circa 2003. Oh how the masses forget. again, we get into this discussion...

dude, realise:
Kerry does not control the US intelligence department. In no way, whatsoever, would hav the ability to chose what info they investigate or not. Therefore, he had to, just like everyone else... he had to believe what he was being told... whY?

whY?

b/c he had no other sources.

man, why is this so hard for u guys to believe... or comprehend. If all u hear is one side of the story, ur view will b biased. Now, if Kerry had his own privately funded International Intelligence group, he'd hav no way to dispute the info given by Bush...

get it?

damn man.. .it's not that hard.

So yah, Bush needs to apologize for it. & beyond that, Kerry, at least, has said that if he was in control he definitely would'v handled things differently. Bush still hasn't even said THAT much.

beezlebob
24 Sep 2004, 01:00 PM
Due is correct, but the neo cons have successfully painted Kerry as a flip-flopper on this issue especialy. I suppose that is Kerry's fault for allowing that to happen.

Shrike
24 Sep 2004, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by beezlebob
Due is correct, but the neo cons have successfully painted Kerry as a flip-flopper on this issue especialy. I suppose that is Kerry's fault for allowing that to happen.
He had the same information, he just didn't show up to the Security meetings.

the-dude
24 Sep 2004, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Shrike
Ya know its pretty sad that Micheal "another drumstick please" Moore is the rallying point for the Kerry campaign on here.
Oh, so he is in fact a perfect counterpoint to Rush "another drumstick please" Limbaugh(which BTW i think is his goal). They should have a SUMO match to determine dominence. ;)

Shrike
24 Sep 2004, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by the-dude

Oh, so he is in fact a perfect counterpoint to Rush "another drumstick please" Limbaugh(which BTW i think is his goal). They should have a SUMO match to determine dominence. ;)
Moore would win, Limbaugh lost all the weight.

the-dude
24 Sep 2004, 02:01 PM
http://www.ictks.com/rush/graphics/rush002.jpg
Holy crap, I guess he did. Well you won that important argument! :)

beezlebob
24 Sep 2004, 02:04 PM
I dunno, Limbaugh takes those hillbilly heroin painkillers that made him almost go deaf.

twentyshots
24 Sep 2004, 02:07 PM
Limbaugh may have lost the weight, but don't forget he is all jacked up on pills and Moore will get winded easily. Advantage Limbaugh.

Duemellon
24 Sep 2004, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Shrike
He had the same information, he just didn't show up to the Security meetings. he had the same info as the rest of congress, but no where as near the info Bush did.

that's the way it works.

He didn't hav the info that Powell had, Rumsfield, or whoever. Why? B/c Bush & Co. chose what they were gonna share/w & who they were gonna share/w. Do u honestly believe that Bush & Co. gave a full disclosure to Congree in the security meetings? c'mon man.

Unless we had an independent intelligence agency back up Bush & Co.'s claim, we had to take their word for it. Where would this independent intelligence agency come from? WHERE?

if u answered "the UN" or "UN members" u win!

ianalex20
26 Sep 2004, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by tobedawg
9/20/04Dammit, of COURSE he's a lousy candidate -- he's a Democrat, for heavens sake! That party is so pathetic, they even lose the elections they win! What were you expecting,


I like this part best...:D

classicgrrl
26 Sep 2004, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by RedRage


Mr. Moore is nervous. Better get him a Twinkie quick.

sorry no more twinkies they went bankrupt


seriously...

JSpaceman
26 Sep 2004, 08:15 PM
Wha? Are you saying Twinkies are... gone? Shouldn't that be headline news? :confused:

classicgrrl
26 Sep 2004, 08:28 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2004/09/22/news/fortune500/interstate_bankruptcy/index.htm?cnn=yes

beezlebob
26 Sep 2004, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by the-dude
http://www.ictks.com/rush/graphics/rush002.jpg
Holy crap, I guess he did. Well you won that important argument! :)

White pants after Labor Day??? :eek:

back2vinyl
26 Sep 2004, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by JSpaceman
Wha? Are you saying Twinkies are... gone? Shouldn't that be headline news? :confused:

I'm afraid Classic is right:

http://www.forbes.com/associatedpress/feeds/ap/2004/09/22/ap1555281.html

I'm sure somebody will buy the rights and keep making Twinkies though.