Wal-Mart Sliced and Diced

[Wolverine]

Rude greeting for Wal-Mart

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Developers regroup as hurdles rise

By Erica Solvig
The Cincinnati Enquirer

DEERFIELD TWP. - Developers of a proposed Wal-Mart Supercenter are regrouping after a township trustee sliced and diced their plans this week.

Likening the Shoppes of Deerfield proposal to a pig "in a silk suit," Trustee Lee Speidel said that he wants to remove a 20,000-square-foot outlying retail building and a 7,000-square-foot restaurant from the picture.

Speidel also wants to take out one of the access roads, even after developers said that the county engineer was requiring it.

These were among the 11th-hour changes suggested Thursday night as part of an eight-month public debate over the south part of the Shoppes plan.

The proposal for land along Mason-Montgomery Road proposes a 203,000-square-foot Supercenter, the retail building and five restaurants.

"This property is right in the heart of Deerfield Township," Speidel said. "It is vitally important to this township that that corridor's property values be maintained."

Developers took a few minutes to discuss the changes among themselves before asking the trustees to end the meeting and continue the conversation at 5:30 p.m. Wednesday.

"To eliminate 27,000 square feet makes this project economically unfeasible," Steven Miller of Vandercar Holdings Inc., a partner in this project, told trustees.

"Developers met Friday with township officials.

Township residents have scrutinized the plan since it was first proposed last October, with many saying it will bring too much traffic to one of Warren County's most-traveled roadways.

They also have asked township officials to deny the plans because of storm-water runoff and quality-of-life concerns.

The zoning commission recommended trustees tack on 44 conditions if they approve the plan.

Trustee Barbara Wilkens Reed has abstained from all these proceedings because of her family's interest in nearby properties. Therefore, the Shoppes proposal will need to get the approval of both Speidel and Trustee Randy Kuvin to move forward.

If the two trustees cannot come to a consensus, the proposal will fail and the issue could wind up in court.

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/06/19/loc_walmart19.html

[classicgrrl]

more power to them to keep Walmart at bay but in the long run I think unfortunately they will lose and Wally World will become a reality.

Walmart pockets are too deep and too damned big.

For those you that don't know...anytime a Walmart goes in property values deteriorate rapidly, crime rates skyrocket, and wages for the area workers drop significantly.

I work on Fields Ertel and if Walmart goes in I will be seriously seeking another job. Or asking for a transfer. There is already a smaller one near me as it is.

This complex if it goes in will be HUGE.

Now here's something to ponder: Walmart is the LARGEST employer in the world at the moment. What would happen to the US economy if Walmart were to suddenly pull an ENRON and go belly up? How much of your tax $$$ would it take to bail it out?
This is the true danger of a monopoly....

[jeffvankirk]

That's why I plan to do all of my shopping at Eavie's and the 97X Store.

[classicgrrl]

I *try* to avoid Walmart and the like if at all possible.

One of my plans on my vacation is to make a list of all good thrift within the city limits of cincy and one outside of city limits. then visit them and see which ones I like.

those will be the ones I frequent when in need of items. part of my *slimming down* plan for the summer.

:D

[doctort13]

Other communities have fought the Wal-Martians AND WON!


Now they have Target stores in their neighborhoods. :)

Seriously, I have read about people organizing to give Wal-Mart it's walking papers (or riding one of those motorized carts for fat-ass people to lazy to walk).

[AngelV]

Here in Montgomery County, Maryland, the County Executive has introduced a bill before the County Council that would basically prohibit "big box" stores from taking over property in the county. While Wal-Mart wasn't named specifically, it was the bill's target (no pun). ;)

[yoshomon]

Let me begin this post by saying that I do not advocate illegal activity and am merely posting this for educational and research purposes.

While they are being constructed, buildings can be burned down. Once buildings are built, one can break their windows and tag the shit out of them. When a store is open, one can steal from it. And remember, store managers and owners (as well as pro-Wal Mart politicians) have names and addresses.

[Phreon]

Of course those self indulgent tactics don't harm legitimate campaigns against WalMart, do they?

Phreon

[yoshomon]

Well, sometimes legal campaigns fail. All of the tactics I described were for that scenario.

But yeah, there is always the debate set off after the ELF burned down that Vale ski-resort building. The campaign to stop Vale from building it disappeared after the arson and Vale just rebuilt the building.

[dry-gulcher]

What's wrong with you people .......were you hit on the head (s) by a meteorite or something ? Wal-mart is the premire vendor of only the finest in Chinese prison-labor products ! Electronics ,apparel , toys ect directly from that women's prison in Shanghi to Deerfield Twp. :eek:

[REMgirl]

We quit shopping at Walmart at the beginning of the year. I am a freelance artist and I designed fabric for a company out in Portland, Oregon for almost eight years. They sold their fabric to Walmart and other chains, but Walmart kept pressuring them to lower their prices and switch from their source mills in South Carolina to sources in Asia. In February, the fabric company went under. They just couldn't compete.

So it may be an emotional, immature response, but Walmart gets no more of my dollars.

[wileE]

I practically work across the street from those Deerfield shops. I am not looking forward to when those are finished. Traffic sucks as it is. Milford is currently fighting to keep a Wal-Mart out as well (on Rt 28). Nice to see people know the damage they cause. I avoid Wal-Mart like the plague.

[angryj5]

its not really a monoploy, there are other choices, often more expensive, yet they exist...and walmart is definitely evil and practices low tricks to fuck the competition. its just an example of how big business can go terribly wrong. support your local businesses.

[Duemellon]

Originally posted by angryj5
its not really a monoploy, there are other choices, often more expensive, yet they exist...and walmart is definitely evil and practices low tricks to fuck the competition. its just an example of how big business can go terribly wrong. support your local businesses. The call for us to b isolationists, xenophobic, or elitist, is me drivin nuts.

The same mentality u hav towards Wal Mart is the same u share against international manufacturers & service providers. "They're bad/stealing from the small guy, so to combat this we will spend more time & money in an attempt to keep the economy isolatd & circular."

That's just an irrational goal. Intendin to fight big corps/w spendin more $ than u need to on the same goods at comperable quality so u can feel like u'v done some great service for the little guy. I need my money damnit. I gotta go to WalMart for things b/c they're so f'n cheap. Same with Biggs over Krogers, or computers built in Thailand instead of Wisconsin.

Sorry folx, dem da rulz. Wal Mart is here to stay, they lowerd the boom on prices & the rights of humans under their control. One way we can fight this for the betterment of our lives is to fight for the betterment of those oppressedd by Wal Mart. Giv them a reason to demand more from their emploiyer & our quality of life goes up.

They hav no drive to say "I won't work for a dollar an hour" b/c... well, they will work for less than a dollar. They'r intimidated & limitd in options to turn elsewhere. So what do u do? U say we need to take their jobs away? Or pressure WalMart to the point where they further compete on quality or costs?

What will Wally do to compete in quality? I'm sure he'll just whip those slave laborers harder to make better stuff. Cost? Same action. If no one showd up for their jobs b/c they're now workin in a call center, then Wally gotta offer better wages for them to come back. Wally gotta offer better workin conditions. That cost of manufacturing is then passd on to the consumers & Wally's back up to the same prices as ur corner store.

Instead of keepin the money to urself, find a way to make those oppressd ppl desire more from their employer. K? Problem solvd permanently then. & heck, maybe u'll rethink livin in Bangladesh after they'r all workin cushy office jobs for $30k, American.

[angryj5]

comparable quality? no

yeah theyre both t-shirts, but one is better than the other. and dont forget kids, due wants you and your parents to work at walmart cause they have the same quality products, service, attitude (hell does your local shop have a cool little yellowball smile whistling and making all the customers and employees happy?) as every other shop and its cheaper!. or do you feel your iq drop every time you have the misfortune of having to walk into a walmart, i know mine does.

we're really helping those poor chinese, korean, thai, mexican, etc people by letting them work in sweatshops; so now that we have them working for nothing, we may as well let the rest of the people between the sweatshop and the store (and in the store) work for nothing too. its bad tfor the economy not to shop at walmart, due said so.

[angryj5]

oh and due also says walmart has a great cd section, so much selection, plus its all clean and family-friendly. dont you dare spend 2 more bucks for that CD at the local cd store, where you can also find some diverse music, diversity is bad, or even local music. local music is terrible according to due, since its not at walmart its not important and can only hurt the economy.

[PeterABnny]

Yeesh... I avoid Wal-Mart like the plague! I'm working within walking distance of Wally's and the traffic SUCKS around here on the weekends!

Wal-Mart sucks! I have a friend who worked there, and I can tell you, those "feel good" ads that they like to run are virtual lies. I'd never go into Wally's unless I absolutely had no other choice. My own form of boycotting the way they do business, etc. ad nauseam, you know? I like how even though communities are starting to say no to Wal-Mart, the company still tries to bully its way in, as it did in this one California town (forget the name, atm). Yeah - it's really being a friend of the community! :rolleyes:

Quite frankly, I don't care how much cheaper Wally's is comapred to anyone else - I'm not shopping there. Give me Target. On some stuff, it's cheaper there than at Wal-Mart. At least Target's Third World-made goods are easier on the conscience... :)

[Duemellon]

AJ5, did u read my post as an independent thought or did u assume I was saying somethin that someone else said already...

b/c I didn't say those ppl should b happy workin for slave wages. I never said we should b happy workin in WalMart. In fact, my suggestion was a way to destroy WalMart.

But it seems u just read it & assumed I was one of those ppl.

Reread it/w a more open mind & u'll see what I was sayin instead of assumin what I was sayin.

[eyeball]

I have several family members (and soon to be family members) that work for wal-mart. I like being able to walk into ONE store..YES ONE store and come out with everything I need. Putting one down here at ridge and dumping the ghetto walmart we currently have would be great. yea bitch at me if ya want. oh well.

[angryj5]

so its bad to go to shake it records (locally) and buy CDs, but its good to go to wal mart or best buy or some other nation-wide (or international) chain store and buy CDs. granted you cant buy used CDs at walmart or best buy, etc and your selection is severely limited, the quality is still comparable, according to you...quality of what the jewel case? jewel cases are cool but i buy CDs for the music on them not the pictures on the cd-liner, i'm sure theres no quality difference on them, save a few explicit albums, ie nirvana's in utero. sure wal mart has pet supplies, but do they have all the species of fish that the local pet store has? no. are the sales people at wal mart as informed as the sales people at the pet store? does the manager of the wal mart know as much about fish as the manager at the pet shop? i have to doubt it. are the bikes at wal mart the same quality as the bikes at the local bike shop? no. can you get the same lightweight frames? no. can you get a cheaper bike at wal mart? yeah, would you take the same cheap bike down a mountain course? no. can you get a case of oil cheap at wal mart? yes, can you get any part for your 4 year old car at wal mart? no, but you can get it at the local (tri-state) auto parts store. in a store where you can stop once and do all your clothes, food, appliance, sports, entertainment, etc. shopping, you dont get nearly the selection (or quality) that you would have if you had gone to several local shops. isnt there a saying about keeping all your eggs in one basket...

[classicgrrl]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040622/ap_on_bi_ge/wal_mart_discrimination

A federal judge on Tuesday approved class-action status for a sex-discrimination lawsuit against Wal-Mart Stores Inc. that has become the largest private civil rights case in U.S. history.

It's too long to post so you guys will have to read it.
All of retail is watching this VERY VERY closely.


Eyeball: I agree the convenience of getting everything in one store is a great thing. It's what made Walmart the giant it is (plus very cheap prices). But this comes at an enormous expense:
-->wage rates for surrounding area falls
-->crime rates increase
-->property values decrease
-->smaller competition is crushed
-->greatly, greatlly decreased choice for consumers
-->dangerous conditions for economy based on competition (there is none)--what would happen if Walmart were mismanaged the same way Enron or Disney was?
-->provides a breeding ground for treating workers unfairly under the guise of raising profit....this is the SECOND civil rights lawsuit brought against Walmart. And there is not enough time or space to get into how Walmart treats it's employees outside of the US borders.
-->sets up an easier manipulated marketplace-aka censorship. Walmart greatly censors it's books, magazines, music, pretty much everything.

For me, the price of having personal convienence is too high. Walmart is too big. Monopolies are NOT good for our economy. And yet we are allowing them to happen under the happy tent of more profit.

I see massive long range problems for the US economy if we don't begin reigning in our bigger is always better concept.

[Stephen in Indy]

i hate wal-mart as much as the next guy. the merchandising is tacky, the clientele (for the most part) is tacky, the merchandise itself is tacky. it is a truly tacky store.

here in indy, wal-mart has plans for 10 supercenters in the metro area. greenwood (where my parents live) and here in carmel, the plans have been fought tooth and nail. wal-mart has come up with new prototype store designs that are of the same architecture of the near-by areas, and/or are neutral, earth toned in color. they have even said they would make the cart corrals of the same exterior materials of the stores so they wouldn't be an eyesore. the insides of the stores would be totally different. to save typing space, the ideas presented sound like they took a page from target (clean and uncluttered with wide aisles). wal-mart is also willing to pay for infrastructure upgrades like road widening and storm sewer upgrades. fully landscaped structural sound barriers would also be erected. Indianapolis has already signed off on these new plans. Greenwood probably will after a new site is selected. we're too snobby here in carmel for a super wal-mart. we'll just keep the existing regular wal-mart we have.

while wal-mart does do many shady things in many places, they do some good in others. they employ many people that wouldn't employable anywhere else like the mentally challenged. they give them a job with benefits. the taxes they pay in the form of salary taxes and property taxes are a boon for local governments. that helps keep people's property taxes down and enables governments to keep up with infrastructure, build parks, and keep hand-outs to the less-privleged going just to name a few. not to mention much of the tax money goes to school corporations in the community.

my wife and i are loyal superTarget shoppers. we don't feel cheap after going there. and here in indy, the prices on groceries are about the same across the board as wal-mart's. target's clothes are much better. target's home items are much better. but there are some items where wal-mart is just less expensive. every once in a while we do venture across the street to wal-mart for those few items. it still comes down to the old saying: money talks and bullshit walks. i don't want to piss my money away just to take a stand against a store.

i give money to organizations that work for better working conditions and wages in developing countries. that's the best way to help sweatshop workers. that's how working conditions got better here in the latter part of the 19th and the early part of the 20th centuries. goverments need to pressured to enact better conditions and better wages. after this happens, employee happiness goes up. when employees are happy, productivity goes thru the roof; much higher than it was previously.

while my wife and i will continue to do a majority of our shopping at superTarget, when these prototype wal-marts are built, we'll give them a try. that's what makes this country the best on the planet: competition. if we don't like it, we'll continue shopping at superTarget. wal-mart isn't a monopoly. target does have 2000 stores. kmart still has over a thousand and is doing great right now. there are choices. target could flex it's muscles and directly challenge wal-mart. they have just as much buying power and a huge number of stores.

stephen

disclaimer: i base my opinion on what is happening here in metro-indianapolis. i don't know what is happening in other communities. i don't want to know and i don't care. if you don't like what a business is doing in your town, contact members of you local government and let them know how you feel. if they don't care, vote for someone that will. it's your freemdom and your right.

[angryj5]

betterment of lives oppressed by walmart, well at the local level, its our own greed trying to buy a t-shirt for 20 cents less that allowed wal mart to storm so many communities already, so now its time to go back and fix it? but at the same time we'll still give wal mart the green light to keep ruining local economies to save the global economy, by continuing to buy products there because its cheaper, not better or faster or more convenient or better for the environment or anything else, just because its cheaper, and you need your damn money.

betterment of lives internationally, hmmm i seem to remember when stewarts products were reported as being made in sweatshops that kmart pulled those products and replaced them with ones made in non-sweatshops (supposedly) i know several people boycotted kmart because of this, its not like nobody knew, purchasers regularly visit factories, farms, plants, etc. to inspect how and where the products they are buying are made. and look at kmart now, its struggling hard to keep the remaining stores open and happy customers, which is sad because it allows bigger monsters to take over easier. but boycotting does work.

[angryj5]

superWalmarts already exist, theyre open 24 hours a day.

[Stephen in Indy]

kmart did badly because of poor accounting, slow growth outlook, and the worst distribution in all of mass retail. that's what doomed kmart. now that the ships been righted they are doing well. it's just the beginning of their upswing and most economists see continued success for them. yes they had sweatshop clothing and the small boycott did get alot of press but kmart's downfall was already starting and the boycott probably had little to further their plight.

[Duemellon]

AJ5,

Here's what the point of what I was saying was:
Before the 80's our market for products we sold was the source for them. We held an "export only" mentality & could easily get away/w keepin our economies to ourselvs b/c foreign competition for our dollars was negligible or complimentary.

Now that free trade has increased, those countries who were incapable of fielding enuf workrs to operate a manufacturin plant can now do it. However, their economy was at such a smaller size that they don't hav to employ workrs at a comperable rate as us.

In other words, we need a minimum of (an arbitrary number) $4.75/hr to work at all. If we get less than that workin is not a benefit to us & we would chose to b jobless. These international counterparts are already livin w/o the money & by introducin the ability for them to work for $1.25/hr we are givin them somethin they didn't hav before.

For me & u to liv in Cincy takes a minimum of $12,000 USD a year. For them to live $2,000 USD. They also liv in mudhuts, giant communal campuses, homeless, & hav no medical, no influence over their govn't, no control over where they work, etc etc.

What is the solution? We can't xpect our companies to ignore the fact they can reduce costs by sendin work overseas. We can try to increase those developin country's standard of livin so there's no place these corporations can find someone to work for only $1.25/hr. That not only prevents the giant void creatd in our country from lost jobs, it actually helps other ppl in other countries.

What I Have Not Said:
I never said that buyin WalMart will bring about this change. I never said that stayin on the present course is helpin these ppl. I never said that we will somehow maintain our standard of livin as jobs are being sent overseas.

That's b/c none of those are true.

However, b/c I said the statement ABOVE, u put me in the category of those who believe the statements BELOW. That's not true. There's a different avenue. That is developin these other countrie's standard of livin.

[angryj5]

and how do we increase the standard of living in all the countries to be that of, or close to, the standard of living in the united states of america?

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by angryj5
and how do we increase the standard of living in all the countries to be that of, or close to, the standard of living in the united states of america?

Other countries standard of living will increase relative to the U.S.A. by lowering ours...

[Duemellon]

Originally posted by Wolverine
Other countries standard of living will increase relative to the U.S.A. by lowering ours... there u go.

Now the question is, do we want to control our decrease? or just let the rich retain their standard while givin us our decrease in huge massiv fuckin chunks like the last few yrs?

Havn't u noticd that the midclass is dryin up? Havn't u noticd that those makin $40k 3 yrs ago are workin 2 jobs at $9/hr? The standard of livin has droppd already. It's gonna get worse as our previous employers come to us sayin they ain't gonna hire a network operater for a system in the US b/c they can hav them run by someone in Bangladesh & still hav it international.

I mean, really, the only jobs we can keep here for sure are service & retail jobs. All other jobs can go to anywhere else.

[LiceKrispy]

Originally posted by angryj5
do you feel your iq drop every time you have the misfortune of having to walk into a walmart, i know mine does.



I know that feeling. not just IQ, but general sense of self worth. I had gotten down to just going there a few times a year for one item if I couldn't find it anywhere else, but now I don't even think I could do that, literally. Last time I almost went there, I was wondering if it was something I shouldn't be doing as I pulled into the parking lot. Before I found a space, a wisdom tooth that I didn't even know I had started coming in very violently and rapidly - oh, the pain was immeasurable. All I could do for a while was drive around the lot "ARRRGHH!!!"'ing and yelling, "OH my GOD.....what do I DOOO!!! I don't even know if I can DRIVE!!!!" and it continued all the way until I got back on the expressway heading home. Next day, nothing. Day after that, nothing.

[DogStarMan]

I drive through Englewood every day on my way to the YMCA. It's a nice neighborhood. I found out a month ago that a WalMart is being built on my route. Now, all of a sudden, all the houses are for sale in that neighborhood. I dread the traffic that I will face when that sucker opens up.