Condi and the Council

[RedWoods]

So the white house won't release Condi's speech on National Security threats originally planned for 9/11/01 for the special committee to review. The Washington Post reports that the speech made no mention of al qaeda or bin laden . . . I'll be curious to see how condi addresses all of her inconsistencies regarding just about everything.

[AngelV]

Testimony begins at 9am (eastern). I believe most, if not all, of the major networks + cable will be showing it live.

[AngelV]

C-SPAN (http://www.cspan.org) will probably re-air it later in the day, if not other times in the coming days.

[Bronzetree]

I've been watching for about an hour and a half. She's dodging just about everything. The current commisioner is asking questions she keeps answering with, "I was not aware of that." You're the fucking National Security Adviser. It's your job to be aware.

She's lying.

[The Schnoo]

she showed up only after they coached her on what to say.. you can tell she was lying most of the time, infact there were times when the guy didn't even ask her things and she would answer in some way that wasn't even related, or she would try to argue with the guy... Arguing with a commission investigator, good fucking job. Ugh... she's a walking conflict of interest.

-The Schnoo

[The Schnoo]

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=44767

complete transcript and rather objective debunking.

-The Schnoo

[AngelV]

Heh, that's the first time I've seen the word objective used to describe the Center for American Progress.

Originally posted by The Schnoo
http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=44767

complete transcript and rather objective debunking.

-The Schnoo

[yoshomon]

It's an interesting situation when one of the ruling parties of this country is lying about their involvement in the death of thousands of citizens it claims to protect.

[Sovrana]

I didn't get to see ot hear all of it since I taught most of the day. I did hear the opening statements and a few responses to some questions. I wasn't really struck by too much of what she said. I mean, I spent the last week or so listening to Clark's interviews and came to the conclusion that all that is going to be determined is that the communication of intelligence was flawed between the FBI and the CIA. This is something the Bush Admin pointed to to quite awhile ago and has made attempts to correct.

In the end, I think all that will be determined is that we (both admins) could have done better but there was no way to completely avoid the attacks and we are now implementing ways to improve intelligence gathering...blah blah blah.

I do have to say that I cringed everytime she said "silver bullet." I just couldn't stand her continuing to play on the "cowboy" allegory that this admin continues to wrap itself up in...blech!

[mikeatthemadfro]

I have to say that if I needed someone who could stand up to the pressure...forced to lie under oath...and not apologize for crimes agains humanity...

I'd pick Condi...she's one tough cookie.

DAMN>

[The Schnoo]

Originally posted by rightstarter
but then again, leeza claims to have not have been able to concieve of 9-11, so hey, anything's possible.

anybody got anything?

Actually, I do have something... September 12th, 1970, 3 (out of 5 planned) planes were hijacked, landed in the jordanian desert and blown up (not killing anyone on them), reportedly the plan was to slam them into buildings around europe and the middle east... this was 31 years before 9/11... so saying that we didn't know this was possible, conceivable or otherwise is completely and utterly false. The idea that these people run this country is completely ludicrous. Terrorists have talked for a long time about using hijacked planes as weapons, the problem is that it used to not be feasable because in other countries they have a lot of security (think al-el and things of that ilk), but here, well... once they realized there was a way to do it, they did it. But her saying this shit, or them even referring to the idea that it was inconceivable is fucking retarded.

-The Schnoo

[Duemellon]

Originally posted by The Schnoo
But her saying this shit, or them even referring to the idea that it was inconceivable is fucking retarded.

-The Schnoo Inigo: [looking confused] You keep using that word? I do not think it means what you think it means...Originally posted by mikeatthemadfro
I have to say that if I needed someone who could stand up to the pressure...forced to lie under oath...and not apologize for crimes agains humanity...

I'd pick Condi...she's one tough cookie.

DAMN> Or Milosevic, he's pretty tough too, but more dramatic.

[onest2.0]

I only caught bits and pieces, and I'll agree that she was pretty tough, but I also think she should have used non-answers more (ala Ari Fleischer) rather than the "I do not recall" type of responses. It made her look like Oliver North.

[Sovrana]

There were a number of "I do not recall" responses and I think those were delivered and planted by one of the commission members. I don't remember his name but he went through a list of questions about pre-9/11 airport security and the like. Less than halfway through his list you could tell he was delivering Rice an opportunity to praise the recent changes (i.e. Homeland Security and the Patriot Act) made by the Bush Admin since 9/11. She praised Bush well and often with words that often resembled campaign speeches.

I think what frustrated me more than "I do not recall" answers are her responses that claim that there was no clear intelligence that indicated that the attacks were going to happen in NYC and DC. In fact, for the past week I have been hearing Bush and Rice say "If we knew there was going to be an attack in NYC or DC we would have done everything to stop it." (paraphrase)

This statement makes me so angry!! Of course had we known the exact location of the attack day and time, we would have stopped it...at least I hope we would have. I don't believe anyone has ever implied that we would NOT have responded had we known ALL of the details. In fact, who would question this hypothetical? It's too frightening to conceive of the alternative!

I think the questions for this admin have always been why didn't you know? why didn't you ask? why was there no attempt to connect dots?

Thinking that our intelligence has to include every detail (place, day, and time) of a possible attack in order to respond or to defend is frightening.

Yet, we can attack Iraq with no concrete info on wmds more recent than 10 yrs? I don't know...the methodology is odd. The reasoning, I think very weak.

[RedWoods]

"Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States"

wow.

[lawdog]

Commission says "All your PDB Memo are belong to us! (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/09/911.commission.memo/index.html)"

[peedub]

yeah, she also alluded to memos that stated (paraphrasing) 'there are al quaida terrorist cells active in l.a., florida, etc. but the memos didn't say what should be done about them'...duh....

[AngelV]

A co-worker just forwarded this to me...

[lawdog]

Originally posted by peedub
yeah, she also alluded to memos that stated (paraphrasing) 'there are al quaida terrorist sells active in l.a., florida, etc.' but the memos didn't say what should be done about them'...duh....

Yeah. Speaking of that, did anyone catch the Daily Show last night? If not, I'd recommend catching the replay (I think it runs at 7 p.m. the next day?)

[lawdog]

Originally posted by rightstarter
Great great show.

FOR ME TO POOP ON!!!

Sorry. Whenever someone uses two "greats" in a row I have to say that. It's a compulsion.

[Buzzstein]

I don't think you can totally blame the Bush administration, or the FBI, or the CIA, or any part of the government. I think it's a little of everybody's fault, but it's mostly and especially the terrosists' fault. I HATE Bush and his administration, but I'm not about to blame them for 9-11. I will, however, continue to blame them for the whole Iraq thing and for getting a bunch of our troops killed for no reason at all.

[onest2.0]

The terrorists are definitely to blame, I don't think anyone here will dispute that. Even if you're one of the people who think that America is evil and that they are justified in their hatred for us, there is still no excuse for what they did.

That said, if it can be determined that we had a fair amount of warning that was ignored or completely lost in the shuffle, there should be some sort of accountability and/or apology. Negligence is not an excuse.

[Duemellon]

Originally posted by onest2.0
The terrorists are definitely to blame, I don't think anyone here will dispute that.i can think of one, but I'm pretty sure there's at least two.

i guess it depends on how far back you want to blame, speaking chronologically and consequentially.
Butter Effect

[The Schnoo]

I agree it is the terrorists fault.... However I believe condoleeza rice should be put in jail, i believe that bush should be impeached over this shit. They are lying, they are all lying to everyone, EVERYONE. The US, the UN, the world. There is no possible way, with a PDB named in such a manner, they didn't know this was a possibility and that it could easily happen. Especially because in 93, 94, 95, 96, during interrogation of captured terrorists there were plenty of mentions that passenger aircraft would be used as makeshift missiles against CIA headquarters, and get this, the world trade center, surprise. Infact, the guy who was captured before the original WTC bombing in 95 (not the guy who did it, another person... i can't remember his name) had talked about project bajinka, which was a plot to hijack 12 planes and blow them up over the atlantic, barring this plan, they would use the planes to slam them into cia headquarters, the sears tower, the wtc and ultimately the white house. For them to say they didn't know, what the fuck do they want? the terrorists to call them and tell them exactly what is going to happen, when and where? I'm sorry, they are lying. If they didn't know where this was going to happen, who was going to do it, what was going on, then how is it that the next day they knew who did it? where they came from? what flight schools to raid? why wasn't she asked this? Fuck intelligence failure, this is a downright full system failure.

-The Schnoo

[RedWoods]

The Schnoo speaks for me on this one.

[Buzzstein]

I bet it probably would have happened no matter who was President though...Democrat or Republican. I think almost all politicians lie.

[The Schnoo]

Originally posted by Buzzstein
I bet it probably would have happened no matter who was President though...Democrat or Republican. I think almost all politicians lie.

Agreed, all politicians do lie.

I disagree, however, that it would have happened if dubya wasn't the president. First off we have this, 3 months before 9/11 http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/07/29/rice.iraq/
Now she does a little talking about sanctions and things, but the bottom line is they are after iraq, nothing is going to stop it.

Secondly, there is too much evidence these days and it's all coming together, that 9/11 didn't have to happen and either someone screwed up so bad it's unbelievable, or they all knew and let it go. One of the hijackers lived with an FBI informant for god's sake, they had bank accounts, phone listings, easily traceable information on where they were and what they were doing if you would take 10 minutes to look. But they knew all along, they knew the whole time what was going on.... I hate to sound like an asshole or a conspiracy theorist, but this testimony by her and a little digging around on statements made by the administration in the past, has revealed to me something. 78% of americans believed that saddam hussein not only had something to do with 9/11 but believed he ordered it, that was from a USA Today poll, bush constantly alluded to the idea that he had something to do with it, thus justifying our actions against iraq. They didn't cause 9/11 to happen, but they let it happen, they let them take the planes and carry this out... maybe they didn't know that it would be the WTC, maybe they didn't know the towers would fall, i'll give them that much... but they knew something was gonna happen and people were gonna die and they used it as this century's pearl harbor. The great American tragedy, and it makes me sick to my stomach everytime i think about all those people dying, and all our soldiers dying... and for what? so he can get re-elected? so this administration can chip away our civil rights until we have nothing left? They are dying for a lie, a huge fucking lie, and i truly believe that if he wasn't president that this wouldn't have happened, i would go into more detail as to why, but i'm sure you are probably sick of reading this by now and i don't want to sound like a complete and utter asshole. But i don't care if you are left, right, middle, neo-con, super liberal, whatever... if, after this week, you can't see that they've been lying to your face and you still think bush is doing a good job, and rice did a good job at testimony, and everything is rosy and all this shit is right and just and correct, then you are sincerely crazier than i may seem.

-The Schnoo

[Buzzstein]

Originally posted by The Schnoo


Agreed, all politicians do lie.

I disagree, however, that it would have happened if dubya wasn't the president. First off we have this, 3 months before 9/11 http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/07/29/rice.iraq/
Now she does a little talking about sanctions and things, but the bottom line is they are after iraq, nothing is going to stop it.

Secondly, there is too much evidence these days and it's all coming together, that 9/11 didn't have to happen and either someone screwed up so bad it's unbelievable, or they all knew and let it go. One of the hijackers lived with an FBI informant for god's sake, they had bank accounts, phone listings, easily traceable information on where they were and what they were doing if you would take 10 minutes to look. But they knew all along, they knew the whole time what was going on.... I hate to sound like an asshole or a conspiracy theorist, but this testimony by her and a little digging around on statements made by the administration in the past, has revealed to me something. 78% of americans believed that saddam hussein not only had something to do with 9/11 but believed he ordered it, that was from a USA Today poll, bush constantly alluded to the idea that he had something to do with it, thus justifying our actions against iraq. They didn't cause 9/11 to happen, but they let it happen, they let them take the planes and carry this out... maybe they didn't know that it would be the WTC, maybe they didn't know the towers would fall, i'll give them that much... but they knew something was gonna happen and people were gonna die and they used it as this century's pearl harbor. The great American tragedy, and it makes me sick to my stomach everytime i think about all those people dying, and all our soldiers dying... and for what? so he can get re-elected? so this administration can chip away our civil rights until we have nothing left? They are dying for a lie, a huge fucking lie, and i truly believe that if he wasn't president that this wouldn't have happened, i would go into more detail as to why, but i'm sure you are probably sick of reading this by now and i don't want to sound like a complete and utter asshole. But i don't care if you are left, right, middle, neo-con, super liberal, whatever... if, after this week, you can't see that they've been lying to your face and you still think bush is doing a good job, and rice did a good job at testimony, and everything is rosy and all this shit is right and just and correct, then you are sincerely crazier than i may seem.

-The Schnoo

Ok I should probably stop talking about things I'm ignorant to. Lol. You clearly know more about the 9-11 thing than I do. But yeah, I see how they have totally steered things away from Bin Ladin and put all the focus on Saddam. I'm quite bewilderd and alarmed as to how so many people think Saddam had something to do with 9-11 and that this war is just. There's nothing worse than war based on lies. Atleast I can't think of anything worse right now.

[sueque222]

Originally posted by The Schnoo

78% of americans believed that saddam hussein not only had something to do with 9/11 but believed he ordered it, that was from a USA Today poll, bush constantly alluded to the idea that he had something to do with it, thus justifying our actions against iraq.

78%??? you've gotta be shittin' me! what was the date on this poll?

[The Schnoo]

Originally po sted by rightstarter
Control over oil.

Not only our dependence on it, but our lack of control over it.


Correct. There was a book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465027261/qid=1081571812/sr=1-1/ref=pd_ka_1/103-1256729-1471800?v=glance&s=books) written by Zbigniew Brzezinski, whom was Jimmy Carter's national security advisor, called The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and its Geo-Strategic Imperatives (yes, long title, interesting book, bare with me), in this book Brzezinski states no less than three times that the key to America's control of the world in the 21st century is the control of Eurasia... Now this might not seem shocking, but he has a map of the place where we would fight, and that is the region we are in now, afghanistan, iraq, basically all of the middle east. He says "A power that dominates Eurasia would be in control of 2 of the world's 3 most advanced and economically productive regions and about 3/4ths of the world's known energy resources.", he continues "without an attack on the order of pearl harbor or without a direct external threat, there is no way the american people would support the empirical mobilization necessary to control central asia." and this book was written in 1997, well before any of this. It's funny isn't it?

Here's (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4640604/) a good interview with the guy, very smart.. seems like everyone outside of this administration who knows things about terrorism, national security or anything like that has more sense than the people in charge.

I've been studying all this shit a lot since the attacks and it all makes a lot of sense to me... everything just keeps following this pattern that has been set up and it's rather sickening... something is done and obvious, then it's like dubya just goes "well, we didn't do/say what you say we did/said" and it's like no one even notices and everyone stands up and applauds him about how we should get rid of steroids in baseball while our people are getting killed... How fantastic, George Bush, how fantastic indeed.

-The Schnoo

[The Schnoo]

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=LZQAE2G4NDRO0CRBAEKSF EY?type=topNews&storyID=4796826

------------------------
Six out of 10 Americans say the Bush administration underestimated the threat of terrorism prior to Sept. 11, 2001, and nearly two out of three are at least somewhat concerned Iraq could become another Vietnam, according to a Newsweek Poll released on Saturday.
---------------------------

Are people finally waking up? Let us hope so.

-The Schnoo

[The Schnoo]

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/10/bush.briefing/

-------------------------------------------
CRAWFORD, Texas (CNN) -- -- The daily intelligence briefing delivered to U.S. President George W. Bush a month before the September 11 attacks warns of various scenarios of al Qaeda's intentions to strike inside the United States, sources confirm to CNN.

CNN confirmed highlights of the classified August 6, 2001 presidential daily briefing, or PDB, which is expected to be declassified and released in the next several days.

Highlights of the report entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the US" include:

-- An intelligence report received in May 2001 indicating al Qaeda was attempting to send operatives to the United States through Canada to carry out an attack using explosives. This information had been passed on to intelligence and law enforcement agencies;

-- Al Qaeda had been considering ways to hijack American planes to win the release of operatives who had been arrested in 1998 and 1999;

-- Osama bin Laden was set on striking the US as early as 1997 through early 2001;

-- Some intelligence suggested suspected al Qaeda operatives were traveling to and from the United States, were U.S. citizens, and may have had a support network in the U.S.;

-- At least 70 FBI investigations were underway in 2001 regarding possible al Qaeda cells/terrorist-related operations in the U.S.

Sources aware of the PDB say much of the intelligence is uncorroborated, and none of it is related to the eventual September 11 terrorist plot.

The White House continues to work with the 9/11 commission to declassify the two-page document which became the highlight of National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice's testimony before the commission on Thursday.

Officials say the PDB could be released as early as Saturday afternoon, but more likely the beginning of next week.

Rice told the commission Thursday that the August 6 briefing included mostly "historical information" and that most of the threat information in the summer of 2001 referred to overseas targets. She said she did not recall any reports about al Qaeda using aircraft as weapons before September 11.
---------------------------------------

Well, I guess bush was too busy planning his vacation to oklahoma or where ever to be bothered by such a silly thing as terrorist attacks.

-The Schnoo

[The Schnoo]

I will condense it this time.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/intelligence_09-18-02.html

That article says that the administration had pretty clear stream of info about 9/11 well before it actually happened.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-rice0410,0,3695500.story?coll=ny-nation-big-pix
http://www.komotv.com/news/story.asp?id=30728

Both those links? why it's the FBI and Seattle Airport Security accusing condi of perjury.

http://www.chortler.com/1248crice.html

just a little something i thought was funny.

-The Schnoo

[The Schnoo]

Randi Rhodes made an interesting point on her radio show this week. Though I find it a little tough to believe, but if it does it'll be weird and yet not surprising, they will find osama around october... would it surprise you? She said they know where he is, they just don't pick him up because of political timeliness, which is a stupid thing to say, cause i doubt those troops like dying in afghanistan, but i wouldn't put it past this administration to arbitrarily decide that they should continue being killed so he can get re-elected. This week's 9/11 hearings should be rather interesting though, who is it... ari fleischer or someone.. someone big is gonna be testifying this week, maybe i just said ari fleischer cause i hate him so damn much.

I want fucking rumsfeld up there and i want him cooked like a motherfucker.. these commission people, especially kean, are taking it way too easy on these motherfuckers.

-The Schnoo

[RichmondVA]

Did someone say Randy Rhoads?

duhn-duh-duh-duhn-Dah-de-dah-da, Dun-de-da-da, duhn-de-da-da. . .

Digga-digga-Duhn! digga-Dunh! Duhn! dadedada!
Digga-digga-Duhn! digga-Duhn! Duhn! dadedada!

Crazy. . . but that's how it goes
Millions of people, living as fo-ee-oh-ee-ohs

Mental wounds-- not heeeeeeeaalin'
Drivin' me insaaaAAAAAAne
We're goin' off the rails in this craaaazeee traaaaaain!

Okay, played the riff on guitar. I feel better now. I'd feel even better if I would stop messing up that one two-handed tapping part, but I digress.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I think impeachment is a bit far, since Bush has yet to lie under oath. Rice, I think is lying but she's a bit of a fallperson for the administration. Doesn't mean we should let her off the hook, but if the belief is that the Bush administration has done something wrong, they need to get Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush on the stand too because whatever went down, they knew about or should have known about.

[classicgrrl]

"tired of swatting flies"

*swat*

...sorry I found that morbidly amusing...

[The Mad Hater]

to Schnoo's latest remarks...

I, too, would like to see Rumsfeld testify, no holds barred. it has the potential to entirely change my opinion of this administration. thus far, I still back it, albeit with caution and an open mind. if he is "cooked", and doesn't bend, well then...however, a witch hunt type interrogation where he can tell the truth, and be painted as a liar-partisan politics and nothing more. so far he and Powell have me in their corner. but the intensity should be turned up a notch on both of them.

if Osama is captured in October, I won't vote. period. to me, it will be proof positive that our men have been fooled into dying for votes, not you and me.

[The Schnoo]

To me it's good to see that you back it but you understand the cautious nature with which you must back it simply because of the events unfolding now. I dunno if they so much need to grill powell he never really had a lot to do with this whole thing it seemed like, Ari Fleischer, definitely, Rumsfeld, definitely, and if something comes from Rumsfeld, then cheney... It's obvious to me at this point they are hiding something... Like when you were a kid and you put your bad report card between the mattresses and made up something about how they didn't come yet, because it was the weekend and you had a party to go to.

This whole thing stinks of a cover up of some kind, i'm not sure to what extent it reaches, but my gut tells me it goes pretty far.

-The Schnoo

[The Schnoo]

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/writing/2004/04/pre_911_priorit.html

This is a decent sized, rather in depth and annotated examination of the administration's priorities before 9/11, interesting and informative.

-The Schnoo

[CtJester]

Not to ruin the whole CE/P vibe going on here, but...

Did anyone see the Janet Jackson SNL skit where she portrayed Condoleeza (which, thankfully, I found on the net)?

Very funny.

-ct 'Ok, now when you say the report title, there's going to be a loud, audible gasp. So you gotta cough to cover up the gasp. Ok let's practice... Ms. Rice, what was the title of that report? 'Bin Laden determined to attack in the United States'.... *gasp....AWwwwwwwww* *cough, cough, cough*' jester