STOP Ludlow Starbucks!

[joebob]

STARBUCKS,
via a local developer, has a proposal before Cincinnati City Council to rezone a building on Ludlow Avenue in Clifton so that a "drive-through" business can open. The hearing is scheduled for April 7, and may or may not be delayed.

Can anyone stand the idea of having a drive-through Starbucks nextdoor to Skyline, mucking up traffic along Ludlow, Clifton and Hosea?? Not to mention the SUVs, cell-phones, and litter that we all know and love obstructing, disrupting and endangering the residential, street- and walk-up traffic in the area.

Stop by a Ludlow business ASAP to sign a petition against this action. Or find me, of course...

More info available at Sitwell's, New World Bookstore, or online at http://www.cliftoncommunity.org/hottopics.htm .


Thank you so much for staying aware of current events, inside and out of our little conservative city. Make a difference - now - if ever.

[Murphy]

Is it the funeral home nearby that is up for re-zoning? If so, I think I might know who the developer is.

Edited to add, oops , sorry, guess I should have scrolled through your link before asking!

So, this was the spot I was thinking of, and I had heard it might be a Panera Bread.

[Teddy KGB]

Not to sound like an ass, but....Blah Blah Blah. Who cares!!

[Murphy]

You sound like an ass! :p
If you don't care, then just don't read the thread, ya dummy!

[Bronzetree]

Originally posted by Teddy KGB
Not to sound like an ass, but....Blah Blah Blah. Who cares!!

The dude who posted this maybe? Anyone who lives in the area?

I lived just off Ludlow about a year and a half ago and I have to say, that little section of Ludlow right there is already a clusterfuck. Driving from Morrison over to Goodman every day for work - which should be a 3 minute drive tops - usually took me 15 minutes every morning. It certainly doesn't need a drive-thru making things worse. I think there's a pretty good reason there are none as it is.

If I'm in the area anytime soon, I'll sign for you.

[Megs79]

I saw this in the Enquirer a couple days ago, and I got the impression that the drive-thru wasn't definite, but was just a possibility. The developer is leaving his options open. I do think it's a bad idea, but I'm more concerned about the idiots who think traffic won't get that much worse if they expand Rookwood.

[Teddy KGB]

Originally posted by Bronzetree


The dude who posted this maybe? Anyone who lives in the area?

I lived just off Ludlow about a year and a half ago and I have to say, that little section of Ludlow right there is already a clusterfuck. Driving from Morrison over to Goodman every day for work - which should be a 3 minute drive tops - usually took me 15 minutes every morning. It certainly doesn't need a drive-thru making things worse. I think there's a pretty good reason there are none as it is.

If I'm in the area anytime soon, I'll sign for you.

I currently live in Clifton, and I will agree that the area is a clusterfuck. I just don't see how a drive-thru will make it worse. It has been my experience that the clusterfuck is caused by people aimlessly looking for parking when none exists. Everytime I go to Uno's or Greater's I have to drive all through the Gaslight before I find a parking spot. Certainly this adds to the traffic deliema.

Honestly, I don't think traffic is the issue here. If they were talking about putting in a drive-thru hippie organic smoothie shop, no one would complain, but since it's a Starbucks everybody has to have a shit-fit. Let's get over it kids....they brew a damn fine cup of coffee.

By the way, I really don't care either way, I'm just playing devil's advocate in hopes of getting a good-natured arguement brewing...So bring it on!!

[onest2.0]

I posted an in-depth description of what's going on on another Cincy Music website, but its unfortunately down right now (April fools?). I'll post it here when I can get to it.

I live near the site, and traffic on my street will be grossly affected. Needless to say, I care.

[DogStarMan]

I think Starbucks is the devil and should be fought against no matter what the situation is. Damned hoity-toity coffee shops and their undecipherably sized cups. :rolleyes:

BOSTON STOKER RULES!!!!!

[Teddy KGB]

Originally posted by DogStarMan
[B undecipherably sized cups.[/B]

That's funny, because I refuse to order my beverage using their sizes (venti, etc.). If I want a large coffee, I say "large coffee".

[onest2.0]

I really don't care if its a starbucks, barnies, or even a locally owned store. That part of the street is not equipped to handle a drive-thru.

[monkey neck]

Starbucks? What they really need there is a Wal-Mart with one of them there McDonalds in it.

[joebob]

Starbucks has no plans to open "storefront" partners any longer. Their plan is for opening drive-through establishments, like they have been doing in cities like Seattle and Portland for years to compete with the independent sellers there. Cincinnati actually has only one drive-through Starbucks - in Kenwood - so it's hard at times to imagine the impact this would truly have in the Ludlow area... but -

According to Starbucks, for a drive-through location like this to be viable - i.e. at least break even - it would require AT LEAST 800 drive-ups PER DAY. I think it is fair to say that the local residents don't really fit into this group. Aside from tarnishing the feel of a community almost soley distinguished by independent businesses, a drive-through Starbucks would physically trash the atmosphere many Cincinnatians visit and love.

[Teddy KGB]

Originally posted by onest2.0
I really don't care if its a starbucks, barnies, or even a locally owned store. That part of the street is not equipped to handle a drive-thru.

I really don't see how a drive-thru makes any difference. What if it was an eatery without a drive-thru, but a parking lot instead. Here's how the chain of events would go.

Non Drive-thru
1. One would pull into parking lot.
2. One would walk into the store to purchase their wares
3. Walk back to the car.
4. Exit the parking lot.

Drive-thru
1. Pull into the driveway
2. Remain in your car to obtain wares from a window
3. Exit the parking lot.

Regardless of what it is, you are going to have the same amount of traffic, unless you build something without a parking lot. Which wouldn't surprise me.

[Slugworth]

Originally posted by monkey neck
Starbucks? What they really need there is a Wal-Mart with one of them there McDonalds in it.

Mmmm...Wal-Mart McDonalds....MUCH finer than the K-Mart Little Caesers duo.

Much.

[Teddy KGB]

Originally posted by Slugworth


Mmmm...Wal-Mart McDonalds....MUCH finer than the K-Mart Little Caesers duo.

Much.

I'm going to have to disagree. If you have a hankering for McD's you can find plenty of them. Good luck finding a stand-alone Little Caesars. I could really go for some Pizza Pizza.

[yvette7ica]

Originally posted by Teddy KGB
Let's get over it kids....they brew a damn fine cup of coffee.


IMO, their coffee tastes like burnt ass. Don't get me wrong I like a strong cup of coffee (mmmm Grog, a good french roast), but starbucks just tastes burnt (over roasted beans). I'm just a die hard seven hills fan (Sitwells, Highland). There coffee tastes ten times better and their is noticable variety in the tastes of their coffee.

On the politics of placing a drive thru in clifton. I'm not familar with the location so on that front I really don't have much of a personal opinion. I don't like to drive to ludlow very often, because it is a pain in the ass to park and by the time I get to were I'm going I'm too pissed off at traffic to enjoy myself.

[joebob]

Good point about the coffee itself - Seven Hills does rock. Talking with Sitwell's about this, they have at least 5 kinds of Fair Trade coffee available everyday. Beats the hell out of Starbucks selling barely 1% Fair Trade Certified coffee (their website spins the issue, but it's still a fact).

[yvette7ica]

Kroger near where I live started selling Fair Trade. I picked up a bag of the Breakfast Blend and it's really good. Cheaper and better tasting than Millstone.

[Rafe]

Originally posted by yvette7ica
Kroger near where I live started selling Fair Trade. I picked up a bag of the Breakfast Blend and it's really good. Cheaper and better tasting than Millstone. We have Fair Trade (If it's the same one as yours) here at home, too - It really is a good brew.

[Teddy KGB]

Fair trade huh?? Am I a bad person, because I don't give a shit where my coffee comes from. I don't mind that my shoes were made by an 8 year old Indonesian kid. I PREFER my products to be tested on animals. For breakfast this morning, I had an omlette made with Bald Eagle eggs. And I owe all of this to the good ol' american flag (which was made by Chinese prison labor).

On a related note. The other day on the campus of UC I was handed a flyer which asked me to boycot Taco Bell. Upon reading the flyer I marched right over to the local Taco Bell and had lunch.

It's not that I intend to be an asshole....I just honestly don't care.

[Rafe]

Originally posted by Teddy KGB
Fair trade huh?? Am I a bad person, because I don't give a shit where my coffee comes from. I don't mind that my shoes were made by an 8 year old Indonesian kid. I PREFER my products to be tested on animals. For breakfast this morning, I had an omlette made with Bald Eagle eggs. And I owe all of this to the good ol' american flag (which was made by Chinese prison labor).

On a related note. The other day on the campus of UC I was handed a flyer which asked me to boycot Taco Bell. Upon reading the flyer I marched right over to the local Taco Bell and had lunch.

It's not that I intend to be an asshole....I just honestly don't care. Try the coffee, though - it's scrumptious.

[DogStarMan]

Originally posted by Teddy KGB
That's funny, because I refuse to order my beverage using their sizes (venti, etc.). If I want a large coffee, I say "large coffee".
I tried that once. The stuck up employee rolled his eyes at me and gave me a tall which I guess is really their small or some shit. Then he huffed when I didn't tip him in his little jar. Fuck that. I've never been back since. I roll on over to Boston Stoker's and have some Highlander Grog if I have a hankerin' for some real brew....otherwise, I refill my UDF cup with some Kenyan Redeye for .69 cents.

I don't care where the coffee comes from either, I just don't like the place and I'd rather support a local business that makes a better product to begin with.

[Teddy KGB]

Originally posted by DogStarMan
Kenyan Redeye

Are you sure that's coffee? wink wink

[Santos-Dumont]

Is this going in any way to affect my ability to find parking for my after-work movies at the Esquire. I usually give myself about 6.17 seconds to find a spot and if the installation of a Starbucks causes that time to increase at all I am going to be ALL KINDS of mad and probably do some kind of protest/picket line in my underwear type thing.......

but seriously Id sign the petition.

[DogStarMan]

Originally posted by Teddy KGB
Are you sure that's coffee? wink wink
Heh... :p

It's not that I intend to be an asshole....I just honestly don't care. ;)

[tobedawg]

I despise Starbuck's and their coffee.. I usually get my coffee from our local coffee shop called "Wired".. They sell fair trade coffee AND they let local bands play there and display their flyers..
They support our local scene and I support them..

Wired also has a FAST internet cafe, and has a more laid-back enviornment than Starbuck's.. Starbuck's always strikes me as a snooty-yuppie place..

I got a Starbuck's gift card and went there to order a Carmel Frappuccino, and I don't like the whole "VENTI, VECTI" bullshit when I order coffee.. I was treated pretty rudely by the yuppie employees.. They seem to know all of their regular customers' names and treat them really well.. But scum like me, just gets my cup thrown and me and told "HERE".. Not even a fucking "Thank you"..

[Bronzetree]

Originally posted by onest2.0
I posted an in-depth description of what's going on on another Cincy Music website, but its unfortunately down right now (April fools?).

Yeah, what the hell is up with that? My site (hosted by cincymusic.com) is down, too. I called DeWees but he's not answering. What the hell?

[The Mad Hater]

in defense of Starbucks...

we frequent two of them in the Dayton area, one near the mall and one down by U.D. the service is always excellent, whether we tip or not (we tip at the UD store because we figure it's college kids working there, but not by the mall...damn dirty hippie-goth wierdos. but they're still nice.). my wife and I are addicted to their latte, and this crippling addiction helps us to justify "forgetting" to feed the children so we can afford a Venti Machiatto.

anyway, I hate the size thing too. but we found that if you order it the right way, they slip in an extra shot of espresso every now and then. and if you ask for an extra shot of "expresso", they fire a shot at you every now and then.

I shouldn't have posted here. next time I'll be sure to have something to say. I'm very sorry. goodbye, and good luck in your endeavor.

[daphne]

Originally posted by yvette7ica
I'm just a die hard seven hills fan (Sitwells, Highland).

you should check out mammoth coffee on monmouth street in newport. it's a cute little place that just opened, between the levee and that monstrosity of a restaurant that jeff ruby just opened.

i'm not a coffee drinker, so i don't know how it tastes (hehe) but the food is good and the owners are super nice - a married couple in their mid to late twenties.

www.mammothcoffee.com

[IPrayForSound]

Mmmmm.....eXpresso....

[yoshomon]

Originally posted by Teddy KGB
I PREFER my products to be tested on animals

Fuck you.

As someone who has seen what gets done to animals in the testing labs, I can state without hesitation that the only thing that is even close to the same level of torture is what nazi scientists did to the jews during the holocaust or the torture techniques experimented with during the middle ages.

And yes, I just made a comparison to the nazis. Actually, the nazis look like sesame street compared to what's happening to animals around the world everyday.

It's becoming harder and harder for me to not hate anyone who eats meat or supports animal testing. I really need to just calm down about all of this for a while because getting this angry all the time is most likely not healthy. But it's really fucking hard to not be angry when millions of innocent animals who have emotions and families are being slaughtered and tortured.

And now somebody is going to make some stupid cynical joke or say "come on now yosh, lighten up". It's alright. I know that not many people on these boards give a shit about animals (which is funny because I'm sure a lot of you have pets that you love - how'd you like for them to be hung from a hook, skinned alive, then ripped apart???). And somebody might say that eating meat is "natural" for humans. Well let's see you rip the skin off a cow and bite into the cow's side without feeling any emotion. THEN you can talk to me about natural.

Teddy KGB could have been joking. I really dun care whether he was or not... it's not something to joke about.

[tobedawg]

I agree with Yosh in regards to Animal Testing and how barbaric it is..

Animals on corporate factory farms are treated equally as barbarically. I agree too, that I help to contribute to the problem because I have been an ovo-lacto vegetarian for 10 years, and am NOT a vegan. (I try though to keep my dairy consumption to a minimum, I only drink Rice Dream, and eat at least 2 fully-vegan meals a day). I will add though that I don't buy products that are tested on animals and fully support PETA.

[yoshomon]

Fully support PETA? Even when they try to run moronic sexist ads during the super bowl?

Congrats on trying to live a cruelty free lifestyle. It's always nice to see somebody else who cares. :)

[aqualou]

Plain & Simple. Starbucks is EVIL just like Nazis and Disney.

[Bronzetree]

Yosh,

I feel ya on the animal tip. I do. I sometimes struggle with my love of meat, because I know that what I'm eating was once a living breathing thing. But I balance it by remembering that humans are indeed omnivores. I've read Fast Food Nation and know how a lot of meat is processed. No, it isn't pretty, but neither is a lion stalking and killing a zebra on the African plain. I know you'll want to skewer me for this, but I try not to think about it.

It IS natural for humans to eat meat, it's just that the way we do it has changed from when we were still dragging our knuckles across the ground.

But that's only my thoughts on eating meat. I'm no fan of animal testing either. On that, you have my support.

[eyeball]

Originally posted by Bronzetree
I sometimes struggle with my love of meat, because I know that what I'm eating was once a living breathing thing.

I don't have trouble eating my burgers, etc. yep it used to live. it died so I could eat it. oh well. yep I am that heartless I guess. fvck it. don't say read fast food nation and that will all change. I've skimmed over it a few times...and when in high school I picked the Jungle as a book for one of my junior thesis' papers...so I have an understanding of how it all does (has) happen.

still tonight I'm having bacon with my eggs.

----

back on starbucks in clifton...its probably not the best idea, but since I don't live down there anymore (thank goodness) I shouldn't have a say on whether or not it goes there.

[mikeatthemadfro]

Originally posted by Bronzetree


Yeah, what the hell is up with that? My site (hosted by cincymusic.com) is down, too. I called DeWees but he's not answering. What the hell?


You didn't hear?

Dewees went off on a 5 year vacation...to spend the money he's made in internet start up biz...


(sigh)

but he deserves it...
hardworkingsumnabitchthatmikedewees...

[yvette7ica]

Originally posted by daphne
you should check out mammoth coffee on monmouth street in newport. it's a cute little place that just opened

Thanks for letting me know. I'll have to stop in and check it out. It looked neat from the website.

that monstrosity of a restaurant that jeff ruby just opened

Don't even get me started on that overpriced snooty piece of crappola.

[redbobsled]

Some thoughts:

Yes, I"m with Yosh on the animal thing. I like animals more than people. I will not eat them and try not to wear them. I exclusively use cruelty free cosmetics and haircare products.

For those of you complaining about gaslight district parking, hello? giant cheap parking lot next to IGA (is it still IGA?), just a flight of stairs up to Ludlow - and you come out right across from the Esquire. Not much of a walk.

coffee: I hate weak coffee. but I don't love starbucks. the people who work there don't really know much about coffee. I prefer to make my own espresso at home - those illy espresso pods rock out. Do you have Peet's coffee places yet in Ohio? They are awesome. much better than Starbucks, and I think they use Fair Trade. Personally, I'm into chai. I can't make it at home as easily, so when I go out to one of those places - I also like the Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf, but I think that's just a SoCal thing - I get a vanilla or a mocha chai with soy milk. Yummy!!!!!

[Santos-Dumont]

Im always afraid of getting towed at IGA but will try it in future. Not any Peets around that I know but mostly I cruise the west side

Chai tea Rules my taste buds!! Ever since eating at TEAK thai in hyde park and having a scrumptiously smooth cold chai tea there, Im hooked, yeah I tried to make it with the concentrate at home but it didnt taste or look as good as restaraunt chai tea

[Bronzetree]

Originally posted by Santos-Dumont
Im always afraid of getting towed at IGA but will try it in future. Not any Peets around that I know but mostly I cruise the west side

bobseld's talking about the lot NEXT to IGA. It's a pay lot, but it's cheap. Certainly cheaper than the one behind Skyline.

I typically just parked in IGA's lot, pretended to go into the store, then turned around and walked back out. Did this numerous times and never got towed. I don't think anyone's watching the lot. The signs are just there to discourage people who don't know any better.

[Santos-Dumont]

what if i went to iga and bought like a drink or candy bar for the movie and save the reciept to show if they tried to tow....... ohhh, never mind. crap

[Duemellon]

If u park on the hill part of IGA they can't get a towtruck in there. FYI.

If u park in the lil' covered lot next to it they can.

Just a thought, not a suggestion. After all I'd never suggest someone do something illegal (it is tresspassing after all).

[Murphy]

Originally posted by Bronzetree
I typically just parked in IGA's lot, pretended to go into the store, then turned around and walked back out. Did this numerous times and never got towed. I don't think anyone's watching the lot. The signs are just there to discourage people who don't know any better.
Oh, I thought I was the only one who did that. :)
Altho, sometimes I do go in and buy a drink.

[The Hegemo]

Is this going to be a regular Starbucks with a drive-thru, like the one in Kenwood, or one of the drive-thru only types?

Near where I work in Columbus (Grandview area), they have a regular Starbucks with no drive-thru, and about three blocks away, on the same street, there's one that's only a drive-thru (I guess maybe they have counter service inside, but no seating area). I don't quite understand the point of that. Unless this is part of the strategy they've used in other cities to saturate an area with stores in order to chase out other competitors (which in this case would be Stauf's and Caribou Coffee).

Then again, I also don't understand why there need to be four Starbucks within walking distance of my parents' house in Oakley, either.

[onest2.0]

watch channel 9 tonite for coverage on this issue. I was in Sitwells earlier this evening and there was a crew in there interviewing the owner, Lisa Storie.

[Duemellon]

Originally posted by onest2.0
watch channel 9 tonite for coverage on this issue. I was in Sitwells earlier this evening and there was a crew in there interviewing the owner, Lisa Storie. Lisa Storie is a cool person.

just wanted to toss that in there.

[eyeball]

if I paid attention during the broadcast...the idea is gone for now anyway.

[onest2.0]

Yes, Jack Brand, developer of the site, withdrew his application yesterday.

[yvette7ica]

Originally posted by redbobsled
For those of you complaining about gaslight district parking, hello? giant cheap parking lot next to IGA (is it still IGA?), just a flight of stairs up to Ludlow - and you come out right across from the Esquire. Not much of a walk.

That's usually where I park, but on numerous occassions, especially friday or saturday nights, there are no spaces left in the lot.

[peedub]

i've never visited ludlow ave. and NOT been able to find parking...i usually park at an empty meter across the street from subway/pathways.

of course, i usually time my visits thereabouts (or anywhere, for that matter) to avoid the crowds...