Shin Review/Rap Bash

[Guidedbymonkeys]

Nude as the news put this review up, that has just got me pissed off. Shin Review (http://www.nudeasthenews.com/rants/27) Some of what this guy says is very true, like alternative music getting stale.. Yet rap music has been very stale for the past few years in my opinion. Missy Elliot and Timbaland whom he mentions in the article are definately noteworthy rap artists, yet I find them rehasing old school beats and rap phrasing.

This guy who did the review i think could of used any number of bands as a reference other than The Shins. Coldplay,Ryan Adams, (insert your band), are all good targets. The Shins are a pretty damn good band. I've listened to most of their stuff and yes alot of their stuff is heavily influenced by other bands. I can't name one influence i associate with the shins and i think thats part of the reason i like them.

All I know is i grew up loving rap.. since 1981. Loved it all the way up to like 1994. Yes i grew up a bit and got older, and grew to love different types of music my 14yr old self would of hated. Yet rap music is far and away in a worse state than "alternative" music is at this point. Definately not in worse financial state, but in a musically corrupt and reptitvie and ripped off kinda way. Sad fact is most rap fans have no sense of musical history past the last Jay-Z release.

Fact remains.. It takes hours of practice and learning to even think about using your influences if you actually play a instrument in a band. Yet if im into rap or techno i can just press a button and loop and try again till i like what i hear. Not every note is perfect and that is the difference between playing music and using a machine.

Guided By Voices

[Seattle93]

While I agree that some Indie/Alternative Rock is running in place, I think that the Mainstream Hip Hop/Rap/R&B scene is more stagnant - with the exception of a handful of "mainstream" groups/artists like OutKast & NERD/The Neptunes.

However, the independent/underground hip hop scene is flourishing and doing better and much more interesting things. Check out some of the names from my post in this thread (http://msg.woxy.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10427&pagenumber=4).

i can just press a button and loop and try again till i like what i hear. Not every note is perfect and that is the difference between playing music and using a machine.

This is true to a point. I saw Tone Loc last year, and he used a DAT machine hooked up to the sound system to provide his beats. That is the kind of crap that gives all rap artists that stigma, but groups/artists that have a live DJ or band (The Roots, Atmosphere, Dead Prez) with them have (at least some) musical proficiency.

[Pretend Girl]

Well I guess I have to jump in here.

Just because a hip hop artist doesn't have a band or DJ on stage doesn't mean they aren't artists, and I am so tired of people implying that. My friend Bryan, you wouldn't know it looking at him, but he was a great freestyler and we would take road trips to shows together with some of our friends. He'd pop in a CD and sit in the backseat and freestyle for long periods of time and he was so good. I could NEVER do that in my life and to deny the art in that is terrible.

About taking old school beats and shit like that, well that's because old school was ridiculously awesome. Why not pay homage? Why not use something that works? I think people like Missy and Jay-Z and Eminem and even Nelly bring new stuff to the hip-hop genre all the time. Maybe they aren't completely original but we've all got inspirations. I agree that it gets a little old to hear about the constant bitches and bling bling, I'm not denying that. But I'll be damned if every mainstream rap single I've heard come out in the past 4 years has not had the most fantastic hook in it.

At this point I want to say that I know mainstream rap is not everyone's cup of tea and I don't really blame people for not liking it, but to reiterate what was said above, the underground hip hop scene is alive and thriving. I dig the stuff coming out of the UK but I think the rap going on in the US is amazing.

And performers are artists. Period. Whether they are performing to digital art or performing with a band. I think comparing the Roots to Puff Daddy just because they speak instead of sing is ridiculous. Even our precious Neptunes produce tracks for everyone nowadays, including Jay-Z and J.Lo and people that not everyone appreciates around here. (I don't mean that to sound condescending.)

It just makes me sad to hear people complain about the state of rap when there really are fantastic things going on in both the mainstream as well as the underground. A lot of people tend to lump rap into one genre and pretend it's all the same from there, but I seriously think that there are brilliant artists out there who are doing something that every type of hip hop fan can appreciate.

That being said, Mainstream 307 by Non-prophets is a great freakin' song.

[Fitz]

i'm not going to deny that rap - hip/hop is an art form. yes it is a lyrical art form. what i would like to see is hip/hop artists etc. lay down one or more tracks (on their own) and them mix with their original music (this happens to be a project of mine). or if they are going to use old school R&B, rock, what have you, the hip/hop fans should at least take the time to become familiar with what is being sampled. but honestly, i don't see many hip/hop artists or rappers being that creatively original anymore. Timberlake is original!!????!!, not really, they are just ripping each other off. mainstream rap & hip/hop isn't about the art form right now, it is about the money. once an artist does something that is profitable, everyone tries it in their own way. Underground is different. i have seen a lot of underground hip/hop groups with full bands and yes, even a brass section. is it gimmicky? maybe. is it influenced by another type of music, definitely. hip/hop hasn't been around as long as rock. when it is, then maybe we will hear the same arguments about hip/hop and electronica.

as for indie, well there is a lot of influenced music out there, always has been, always will be. Elvis was influenced, the Beatles, very few musicians (if any) have never been influenced by another type of music or band. so that begs the question what is original? i think it is the redefinition or realigning of influences not the complete removal of. if your looking for originality look no further than kinky or the flaming lips. there are some indie groups who are taking the hip/hop, or classical, or country music influences beyond what we have become accustomed to. not rap-rock b.s., although rap rock can be a successful type of music. Rage was very good at this combination and in my opinion one of the true originals. it isn't that the bands are to influenced based, we as fans are just highly educated about our music. we hear the influence and recognize it, if we can't name bands right away, we will eventually. true, bands, if they don't change, grow and develop as artists, will eventually die out or become over-rated, cliché bands that we make fun of (see aerosmith, the rolling stones, etc.), but if bands like The Rapture can take what they are doing right now and develop it, refine it and turn it into something else, basically, as long as they continue to broaden their musical horizons (i know that statement is filled with Velveeta) then they might eventually come up with something (even more) original than what we have.

for what this article says to be and remain true, you must forget evolution, change and growth. frankly that is something i'm not going to forget.

[Guidedbymonkeys]

Something struck me.The lead singer for the Shins has a perfect voice. If i had to have a voice and range it would be his.. Wow i guess im envious.

If I had to have a perfect rap voice, it would be Big Daddy Kane.

Fitz i like you.Your logical and practical along with being original. It might have something to do with my middle name being Fitzgerald.. First name .. Not gonna even say last name.. might freak some people out..

Listen to New Slang.. 100 times in a row..

[Fitz]

thanks monkey guide,

i took my screen name from the writer. I was reading him a lot when i joined this web site, jesus in lederhosen that was years ago.