The truth shall be known.

[The Schnoo]

The truth about the war in Iraq shall be known, even if I have to tell every last goddamn person myself.

The fact is, this administration has mishandled every single thing they have attempted so far. Don't believe the economic recovery, they are incurring a huge debt that your kids will have to pay off just so we can have some short term gains. But the war in Iraq is the biggest bit of nonsense they have forced on everyone... only this time it cost people their lives.

I'm not comfortable with how all this has been handled... I'm not comfortable with this whole "war"... Everyday more kids get killed, and they are kids, I'm not that old and most of the soldiers I see on these lists are younger than me, it gives me that horrible sinking feeling in my stomach.

But maybe we can help, we can expose the ugliness that is being perpetrated.

go here (http://www.thenation.com/actnow/index.mhtml?pid=1046) and read this... then go here (http://www.truthuncovered.com/index.cfm?ms=nation) and watch the trailer... Then preorder this dvd and let people you know, people you don't know, anyone who will watch, see this.

I don't work for these people.... It's just important to me, and I think it should be important to any american.

-The Schnoo

[weezer6]

i was watching PBS, and they had a WWII show on. the casualty count in the battle of the bulge reminded me of the massive amounts of casualties we've had in iraq. it is a travesty. oh, wait a minute, it isn't even fuckin' close!

although i don't have the actual stats, i have to believe the number of casualties we have in iraq, in relation to how many troops are in iraq, probably aren't much more than the death rate of troops in the states. the causes are probably a little different, in iraq you get shot or blown up, or accidently shoot or blow your own self up. in the states, you get soldiers dying in training fairly regularly (getting run over by tanks, falling, drowning, helicopter crashes, etc.), and then you have a fair amount of dudes crashing cars and motorcycles on their way home, drunk, from the strip joints, etc., you just don't hear about it. i haven't done much reading on it lately, well mainly because when 1 or 2 soldiers die a day, and there are over 100,000 troops in country, it's sad, but it isn't alarming to me. i don't listen to all the reports of "the death toll rising", and that we had better leave and everything is a failure, etc.

i guess to me, if we were dropping dudes like it was WWII, i'd be much more concerned. soldiers dying isn't a good thing, but having been in the army, the casualty level isn't alarming to me given the situation.

and as far as the political agendas and all that bullshit, it doesn't matter who is in office. they'll help their friends out to some degree, and their enemies will spend all their time trying to point it out to the world, although if positions were reversed, they'd be doing the same damn thing.

[The Schnoo]

Originally posted by weezer6
i was watching PBS, and they had a WWII show on. the casualty count in the battle of the bulge reminded me of the massive amounts of casualties we've had in iraq. it is a travesty. oh, wait a minute, it isn't even fuckin' close!

although i don't have the actual stats, i have to believe the number of casualties we have in iraq, in relation to how many troops are in iraq, probably aren't much more than the death rate of troops in the states. the causes are probably a little different, in iraq you get shot or blown up, or accidently shoot or blow your own self up. in the states, you get soldiers dying in training fairly regularly (getting run over by tanks, falling, drowning, helicopter crashes, etc.), and then you have a fair amount of dudes crashing cars and motorcycles on their way home, drunk, from the strip joints, etc., you just don't hear about it. i haven't done much reading on it lately, well mainly because when 1 or 2 soldiers die a day, and there are over 100,000 troops in country, it's sad, but it isn't alarming to me. i don't listen to all the reports of "the death toll rising", and that we had better leave and everything is a failure, etc.

i guess to me, if we were dropping dudes like it was WWII, i'd be much more concerned. soldiers dying isn't a good thing, but having been in the army, the casualty level isn't alarming to me given the situation.

and as far as the political agendas and all that bullshit, it doesn't matter who is in office. they'll help their friends out to some degree, and their enemies will spend all their time trying to point it out to the world, although if positions were reversed, they'd be doing the same damn thing.

Military or non-military as you may be, it doesn't matter. Yes, training accidents and all that, hardly at the rate of the guys dying in Iraq. The death toll is rising whether you want to look at it or not. This war is nearly a failure, all the major media human interest exploitation in the world isn't gonna change that.

If you think you shouldn't be worried about the political agenda behind this, you should be. This is the worst case of lying to the american people in the history of this country, this war is on false pretenses, that in and of itself should be enough to make you outraged that even ONE soldier died.

-The Schnoo

[weezer6]

just out of curiosity, if the war is nearly a failure, where would you consider it to be a success? i'm only wondering cuz you said nearly, instead of total, so you must think something somewhere is positive with the war.

[tobedawg]

This is the worst case of lying to the american people in the history of this country, this war is on false pretenses, that in and of itself should be enough to make you outraged that even ONE soldier died.


***sarc mode on***
No.. No.. No.. The Worst case of lying to the American public was a stain on a blue dress and the statement, "I Did Not Have Sex with that Woman".. Killing and War are a part of American culture.. Think about it.. It's great entertainment.. The movie companies are running out of subjects to make movies about.. which is why we need a good war in order to make great war films about.. Like "The Jessica Lynch Story" which is airing on one of the big networks this weekend!!!

The economy is booming, the cost of gas is down, Haliburton and Bechtel are happy, the Fox News Channel says we are winning and the number of casualties are kept to a minimum.. See Everybody wins when there is a War!!!

Let's have Another One!!

**sarc mode off**

I agree that this war is an outrage and that the Bush Administration is extremely dangerous and are using propaganda and lies to push their agenda.. However, the American public are too busy watching "American Idol", buying clothing from the GAP or toys from Disney that are made by little Hondorous children in sweatshops and killing the enviornment with their SUV's which they fill up with gallons and gallons of gas made from oil from countries like Iraq..

"The Truth Uncovered" documentary looks like it's produced by the same people that did "Unprescedented: The Truth behind the 2000 Presidential Election".. ???.. Very informative film..

[wdwrongforum]

Originally posted by tobedawg


However, the American public are too busy watching "American Idol", buying clothing from the GAP or toys from Disney that are made by little Hondorous children in sweatshops and killing the enviornment with their SUV's which they fill up with gallons and gallons of gas made from oil from countries like Iraq..




I can't say anything _ I just want to buy you a beer & cheers your glass

[dcXhc]

Originally posted by tobedawg
However, the American public are too busy watching "American Idol", buying clothing from the GAP or toys from Disney that are made by little Hondorous children in sweatshops and killing the enviornment with their SUV's which they fill up with gallons and gallons of gas made from oil from countries like Iraq..


So you are saying that the problem with the U.S. is not the government, but the people?

[dcXhc]

Originally posted by rightstarter
I can see how someone with your level of intelligence might think that.

cute, dcxhc

Edumacate me, oh Wise One......

[tobedawg]

So you are saying that the problem with the U.S. is not the government, but the people?

I'm saying that it's a combination of both.. The apathetic masses are contributing to the "problem".

[WalterSobchak]

Originally posted by weezer6
the causes are probably a little different, in iraq you get shot or blown up, or accidently shoot or blow your own self up. in the states, you get soldiers dying in training fairly regularly (getting run over by tanks, falling, drowning, helicopter crashes, etc.), and then you have a fair amount of dudes crashing cars and motorcycles on their way home, drunk, from the strip joints, etc., you just don't hear about it. i haven't done much reading on it lately, well mainly because when 1 or 2 soldiers die a day, and there are over 100,000 troops in country, it's sad, but it isn't alarming to me.

...now there is a alternative viewpoint... off to go cry now. i'd think that even some of you non-bleeders qwould be offended by a statement like this.

[weezer6]

why is it offensive?

about 3 hours ago, i looked up some of the stats, and either 2001 or 2002, on accidents alone, between the army and marines, they logged in about 300 deaths. throw in the navy and air force, i'm sure you're going to approach, if not surpass, 400 deaths a year. where was the media focus? where was the demand to get the us soldiers out of the us? a soldier wrecks his/her humvee in iraq and the headline is "soldier dead in iraq". makes you think it was a shooting. i'm not saying that soldiers aren't getting gunned down, but we are not getting massacred over there.

after the first days of the war in iraq, i read through the list of casualties, and i was suprised at the amount of people that died, but not at the hand of the enemy.

[Duemellon]

Heh, the day of the grandiose war have passed. No more do we have massive armies meeting massive armies on orchestrated dug-in positions in the "perfect battlefield". There will not be another Normandy Invasion. There will never be another Blitzkrieg. Thanks to the invent of nukes most wars that would've been fought on this level are dealt with posturing, nuke tests, and sanctions.

These smaller police-actions done by the superpowers and associates to the borderline or non-superpowers (Korea, Iraq, Uzbekestan, Croatia, etc) are small scale interventions.

they will remain so until one (or a collection) of these borderline/non-superpowers finally reject the influence of the coalition of superpowers currently keeping peace.

then, maybe then, we'll have large-scale war. Or just nuclear anilhilation.

So, with that in mind the casualty rate in Iraq is excessive. The size of the armies involved point to the same if not higher rate of soldiers killed.

How big the the contengient causing problems in Iraq? 100k? 50k? possibly only 25k? The troops involved in WW2 were in the millions.

proportions kiddos.

[The Schnoo]

Originally posted by weezer6
why is it offensive?

about 3 hours ago, i looked up some of the stats, and either 2001 or 2002, on accidents alone, between the army and marines, they logged in about 300 deaths. throw in the navy and air force, i'm sure you're going to approach, if not surpass, 400 deaths a year. where was the media focus? where was the demand to get the us soldiers out of the us? a soldier wrecks his/her humvee in iraq and the headline is "soldier dead in iraq". makes you think it was a shooting. i'm not saying that soldiers aren't getting gunned down, but we are not getting massacred over there.

after the first days of the war in iraq, i read through the list of casualties, and i was suprised at the amount of people that died, but not at the hand of the enemy.

The reasons you don't hear about motorcycle accidents on the way back from a strip club, as you put it before, and things like that are the same reasons you don't hear about it happening to the general public, it's generally accepted that traffic accidents happen, besides that, it is reported in their hometown paper or some other media outlets.

The fact of the matter is this: I'm not so much worried about the number of casualties vs wwII, I'm not worried about friendly fire casualities (which are becoming less and less frequent), what I am worried about is that we were lied to, these troops were lied to, they are fighting and dying over a lie, something like this should get a president impeached. During wartime the reasons WHY we are there fighting should be stated clearly, they had reasons, all of which they have backpeddled on since they said them and in some cases said they didn't say them at all.

That is the reason I'm pissed, that is the reason I think people should see this film and be educated.

-The Schnoo